[Groovesmith]

Endless books have been written on the subject, yet I have only had the oportunity to read but a few of them. My questions towards you is what you think about the so called 'old diplomacy' The one based on secret treaties, bluffs alliances -- the bismarck system.
With wilson's 14 points and the ideal moralism insterted into histories viens, this former style of diplomacy was so 'abolished' Nonetheless, names likes kissinger just fling into my head.

What about the old diplomacy and why did launch the world into an abyss? And to follow up, how much has diplomacy really changed? I mean im sure secret treaties are still been drafted, clauses which are hidden from the audience who will wake up only to history.

[Kristin]

Hi,

Interesting question!

Firstly, i'm not sure I really agree with you that upon Wilsons 14 points speech, that "...this former style of diplomacy was so 'abolished'." Wilsons speech represented the vision of one non-european head of state for the future. Even with that in mind, the feeling in the US at the time was sufficiently at odds with some of Wilson's points that the US didn't enter the league of nations - which was Wilson's 14th point.

Essentially, what i'm saying is that although Wilson stated his desire for the implementation of these points, they were'nt necessarily implemented by other nations.

The very fact that that this "old diplomacy" bears so much in common with diplomacy today, as you note, is proof enough that it never really was "abolished". This "old diplomacy" and the philosophy which underpins it, merely took a breather for a couple of years before bursting back on to the scene vis a vis WW2.

Also, I think it's important to note that in some respects, Wilsons 14 points bore some similarities to the "old diplomacy" of which you speak. For instance, the idea of a League of Nations fundamentally rests on the right of a nation-state to exist as a sovereign entity. Similarly, "old diplomacy" recognised the existence of soviereign nation states (not necessarily thier right to sovereignty though Both understood the nation-state as the basic unit of international relations.

To be honest with you, I do think that diplomacy has changed somewhat since WW2 (obviously). But, that said, I think that the fundamental philosphy and thought processes which led to WW2 still exist in numerous forms.

That's my 2 cents

Kristin

[Atromos]

I believe the philosophy of foreign policy has changed from the "old diplomacy" because in Wilson's time, it was more of the "Stay out of Europe's problems." The U.S. was much more independent of European problems because we didn't want to get involved. Ther zimmerman note was recognized and we felt like protecting our trade interests so we got in and tried to keep it from hapening with the LN, but we didnt want to be in it because we still thought of staying out of foreign affairs. WWII approached and we were now thinking "Well, the whole 'stay out of their problems' isn't working very well!" so we GOT involved and then we pushed the Monroe Doctrine and now the U.S. is in almost everyone's faces, or at least everyone's to some degree. As to see how many under-the-table handshakes and treaties are going on, it's hard to tell because we don't have access to those kinds of things until they are irrevelent and become disclosed to the public. I would say that our "Old Diplomacy" has changed more than it hasn't so my final answer is:

It changed.

[Commidget 42]

Well, yeah, I'll back up these guys. It definitely changed.

Wilson's 14 points were COMPLETELY rejected by the other victors of the war, Italy, France, and Britain. They blew off his ideas for peace and equality and put up the Treaty of Versailles, which the US walked out on in disgust-bad idea.

But as for diplomacy- no one does the 'one side vs the other' so much anymore, where a bunch of countries ally against a bunch of other countries and they beat the crap out of each other. The UN keeps mass wars from starting, and meanwhile countries like the US and Russia have been running around for the past 50 years starting and stopping little wars with smaller states.


I can't think of anything else at the second, but that's my 2 pence for now.



~C42