[Furious Angel]

Alright, Socialist-BLUE-Gonzo, Communist, Hamilcar- here are my replys:

I haven't read the bible simply because, I don't believe in the new testament. I am a jew and have read the old testament (Torah), but never read the bible.

Actually, Torah is only the first book of the old testament("Tanach") wich is the holiest(because, by the Judaism, it was written by god himself) and it combined of the thirst five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are two more books: "Prophets" and "Writings" which combined from the rest of the books in the old testament- people usually get mixed up and call all the Jewish "Torah"- but it's not exactly true. Anyway, I also read only the old testament- but it is known as "bible" as well.

nobody reads boring fiction, unless they are simply curious or boring themselves...

Thanks for the complement

I actually like the bible very much

LOL

The bedrock of western civilization is Ancient Greece, not mystical shepherds from the Middle East.

Actually, the Greeks were farmers- and their culture wasn't greater then the culture of the "mystical shepherds". And from who do you think that the Greek farmers got their culture? From the Phoenicians and the Danite Israelits who made trade with them(yeah, those middle eastern "mystical shepherds")- and the Phoenicians along with the Israelites got their culture from the Shumerians and Babylonians(Mesopotamia). By the way, the Babylonian culture was much more developed then the Greek one. So, my freind, the bedrock of western civilization is Mesopotamia(Shomer and Babylon), Canaan(Phoenicia and ancient Israel kingdom), Greece and Rome. From other hand, the bedrock of the eastern civilization was Egypt, Assyria(Syria of today) and Arabian peninsula.

Hmph. Do NOT type in another color.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Alright, Socialist-BLUE-Gonzo, Communist, Hamilcar- here are my replys:

I haven't read the bible simply because, I don't believe in the new testament. I am a jew and have read the old testament (Torah), but never read the bible.

Actually, Torah is only the first book of the old testament("Tanach") wich is the holiest(because, by the Judaism, it was written by god himself) and it combined of the thirst five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are two more books: "Prophets" and "Writings" which combined from the rest of the books in the old testament- people usually get mixed up and call all the Jewish "Torah"- but it's not exactly true. Anyway, I also read only the old testament- but it is known as "bible" as well.

nobody reads boring fiction, unless they are simply curious or boring themselves...

Thanks for the complement

I actually like the bible very much

LOL

The bedrock of western civilization is Ancient Greece, not mystical shepherds from the Middle East.

Actually, the Greeks were farmers- and their culture wasn't greater then the culture of the "mystical shepherds". And from who do you think that the Greek farmers got their culture? From the Phoenicians and the Danite Israelits who made trade with them(yeah, those middle eastern "mystical shepherds")- and the Phoenicians along with the Israelites got their culture from the Shumerians and Babylonians(Mesopotamia). By the way, the Babylonian culture was much more developed then the Greek one. So, my freind, the bedrock of western civilization is Mesopotamia(Shomer and Babylon), Canaan(Phoenicia and ancient Israel kingdom), Greece and Rome. From other hand, the bedrock of the eastern civilization was Egypt, Assyria(Syria of today) and Arabian peninsula.

I am curious if you have ever read, Kaballah (Hope I spelled it right)? It is very complex and many people take a course on it just so they can read it. So when you say you read the bible, you refer to just the talit (old testament)?

[CCJ]

I have to read three books of the Bible for school. It is, perhaps, the most boring and uninteresting piece of shit that I have ever read. I mean, it's just "well so-and-so did this and then this and then God killed him for being naughty. However, his son so-and-so Jr. lived until he was 900 years old."

I really don't understand how people can tread that.

Oh, and I think the New Testament is just filled with stuff telling you to hate other people.

[Visage of Glory]

Oh, and I think the New Testament is just filled with stuff telling you to hate other people.

Give me some examples. I know of plenty of stuff that says exactly the opposite.

Matthew 5:43-44

43. Ye have heard it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you;

John 13:34-35

34. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35. By this shall men know that ye are my disciples, if ye love one to another.

Galatians 5:14

14. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

I suggest you read the New Testament fully before making broad statements such as that.

[immortallove]

Well, i was raised to be Roman Catholic as is pretty much all of Ireland. However, when I could speak properly at around 2 1/2 and was told to pray at night before going to sleep, i thought "What? Are you serious? YOu want me to talk to a guy sitting on a cloud who controls me, my life, the world and the universe, who created us all, and who we will meet when we die? Are you MAD?"

I mean, think about it people. THe bible, Koran, whatever, they are all simply pieces of mythological writing, similar to the stories of Zeus and the Olympic gods.

But the Greeks grew out of that a long time ago.

Someone, somewhere, most likely a complete fool, collected a lot of allegorical works mentioning the metaphorical GOD, which actually was intended to mean luck and the elements and all of that stuff which people were unable to understand or define at the time, and put em all together, selling it as the "Story of God". Then, when Jesus of Nazareth read all of this and believed in it to an extreme degree, he took his natural intelligence and charisma and proclaimed them as attributes given unto him by daddy - God. In his well-documented travels, rumors spread about in his wake - his use of extensive contacts to get his hands quickly on large amounts of alcohol for a wedding seeming so miraculous to the peasantry that someone created the "water into wine" explanation, and people believed it.

HE was simply the Ozzy Osbourne or Kurt Cobain or even Harry Houdini of his generation. I'd say that once he realised his folly, he started rigging tricks to prolong his fame and comparative fortune. But his supposed abilities and many follies cost him his life in the end - a la Ozzy, Kurt and Harry (well, not ozzy - he's copped on in time).

Not a saviour - the first celebrity, ahead of his time.

[Hatred]

I like Jesus and what he teaches, I deeply hate churches and religions, because recently all they've done is shit. Look at the sex scandal in american catholic church, look at Bush saying it is god's will to wage war..

And more: Instead of being rich, cause it's that what catholics do, they could help who needs help.

[Crazy Brown Guy]

Well I am Hindu, and we don’t a “holy book” like the Western religions. We do have lots of books with stories to teach people moral values. There are just too many of these texts to read them all in once life time and then you have to understand them. First you have to learn the ancient scripts and that’s another lifetime so basically, I have to say good luck to anyone who wants to learn about Hinduism.

I have read parts of the Bible and I found it funny and most of the times these stories defied logic at all terms like any other religious text and just irritated me. I don’t know how I understood it but I found it as being the most hateful religious text I ever read. Out of all the Western religious texts I found the Koran as the most liberal text. But from each of these texts if you take the stories literarily or ignore the intended moral principles you’re a fucking nut case.

PS: This is for some of you; Middle East was only a tiny fraction of the ancient world and stop thinking it as the entire world. Believe it or not there did exist a world that was much larger and much more diverse then the Middle East.

[Unperson-S]

I have read bits of it, when I was Christian, but I chose other, as it is not my holy book. For centuries Christians have murdered Wiccans, so I believe it to be anything but holy.

[Vivisekt]

The bible is a human document, written by humans, and it is an ancient one at that. An ancient document that could (did, and does) singlehandedly grant immense worldly power to a person or a group of people (see: the pope, his palace, his personal army, his historical influence over kings and heads of state, and so on). A single passage in this book could potentially grant great privelage.

Do you trust this word of man to be free of corruption and misdirection?

The real questions to ask yourself as a religious individual are; how do you know that God exists? How do you know that the bible is accurate? The totality of human knowledge is garnered by observation - be it direct visual observation, or direct sensory observation of another kind, or indirect observation via extrapolation. In the case of God, the truely faithful that i have encountered say that they can 'sense' God's presence, and that is how they observe him thereby knowing of his existance. It is often described as a warm, comforting feeling.

But how do you know that what you're feeling is God? Because your sunday school teacher said so? Because the bible said so? Because your parents believe that, and you're unknowingly mimicing them (as most people do, regardless of the behavior in question)?

Do not trust in the word of man.

Always remember that alongside of man's admirable qualities, man is also a thief and a rapist. A consumer and a liar. Man is ignorant. Man is a sadist. Man makes mistakes.

If you truely have a desire to believe in and follow God, you can only trust your own observation. Do not let others interpret these feelings for you, because others do not know.

It is foolish to put one's faith in the word of man, hence the school of science. Observation and analysis. Truth here is wrought from independently reproducable results - the individual can perform his or her own observations and see the truth or the falsehood of a thing, without subscribing to the word of man. Without lending faith to the word of man.

Does God exist? I can't say. I don't know. Perhaps I am spiritually dead and that is why i am unable to sense It. But i know that i'll never believe what man tells me to believe, simply because he claims to know God or God's intent. Man is a fool who often does not know even himself.

[Visage of Glory]

Whoa, I had a big case of deja vu there Vivisekt....

The real questions to ask yourself as a religious individual are; how do you know that God exists?

Actually I seriously asked this question this last weekend. I did as you said, and ignored all that man has taught me about God. I tried to compare science and God. Science does nothing to disprove of the existence of God, is what I observed, and it seemed to me, that it supported His existence in some ways. I based my reasoning on my own observations, and my understanding of the world I live in. The conclusion I came to in the end was that God existed. The truth of this fact is clear. His nature, on the other hand, was not determined precisely. I still plan on continuing my worship of him in the way I always have, until I find a "better" method, but I don't think I can believe there is not a god.

[Crazy Brown Guy]

Actually I seriously asked this question this last weekend. I did as you said, and ignored all that man has taught me about God. I tried to compare science and God. Science does nothing to disprove of the existence of God, is what I observed, and it seemed to me, that it supported His existence in some ways. I based my reasoning on my own observations, and my understanding of the world I live in. The conclusion I came to in the end was that God existed. The truth of this fact is clear. His nature, on the other hand, was not determined precisely. I still plan on continuing my worship of him in the way I always have, until I find a "better" method, but I don't think I can believe there is not a god.

Good to hear that you think "God" exist, but how do you know "God" is god, a male instead of being a female? Are you a sexist or do you just blurt out "God" and "he" because you were told "he" was a "he" which was based on ancient sexist bias about male superiority.

[Ásatrúar]

Other: I have no "holy book"

[Visage of Glory]

Good to hear that you think "God" exist, but how do you know "God" is god, a male instead of being a female? Are you a sexist or do you just blurt out "God" and "he" because you were told "he" was a "he" which was based on ancient sexist bias about male superiority.

This I did base on the teachings of my religion.

[| I, CWAS |]

I don't have a holy book. I have read several, including the bible, and was wholly unimpressed by each.

Have they ever tried to convert you? I can see the pitch now, Because you didn't let god talk to you, and had you're heart closed, you couldn't feel

[| I, CWAS |]

Good to hear that you think "God" exist, but how do you know "God" is god, a male instead of being a female? Are you a sexist or do you just blurt out "God" and "he" because you were told "he" was a "he" which was based on ancient sexist bias about male superiority.

This I did base on the teachings of my religion.

So you just believe everything you religion teaches you with no critical analysis?

Ask yourself how did they find out?, who found out?, and who were they?and where is the evidence at?

[Visage of Glory]

Ask yourself how did they find out?, who found out?, and who were they?and where is the evidence at?

I know the answers to all of those questions, though I doubt what I see as an acceptable answer would meet your criteria.

[democrat-hippie]

i read some of the bible, but once i got to the part where someone (i think adam) reached the age of 240 or somthing like that, i found it highly unrealistic, and found no reason to finish it

[christianfundamentalist]

I am a conservative Christian! I believe the whold Bible and I interpret it literally.

[fastspawn]

k3wl a fellow baha'i. me too,