[Comrade Ogilvy]

The problem lies in human nature. There will always be someone who wants to get ahead, and there will always be someone else who, as Adam Smith said "wishes to reap where he didn't sow." Generally people wish to be rewarded for their efforts, especially when their efforts represent a significant portion of the production of the "community." I believe that they deserve to be rewarded. But I believe that people need to be given equal (or as close as practically possible) opportunity to become these people. That is where government comes in, to level the opportunity playing field.

Ok what if communism is in place, how can it be impossible for communism to continue to exist because of people that want to be rewarded more for working more? I think people would naturally get what they deserve in communism, because there is no state in communism, only in socialism or state capitalism under the banner of "communism".

Today almost every country on Earth is Democratic and Socialist to an extent.

You're absolutely correct in this assessment. I guess I would suggest that the ratio of socialism to capitalism is slightly lower than I would like.

So you mean there is less socialism than capitalism or more socialism?

[Gnote]

Ok what if communism is in place, how can it be impossible for communism to continue to exist because of people that want to be rewarded more for working more? I think people would naturally get what they deserve in communism, because there is no state in communism, only in socialism or state capitalism under the banner of "communism".

Because I think that some people would naturally work harder than others, for whatever reason. In doing so they would think it unfair that certain people who were not pulling their weight received the same level of compensation that they received for doing more work. They would start to resent this and would long for a world in which they would be rewarded for their hard work. I think it would eventually cause revolution of some sort and we'd get back to a capitalist system.

So you mean there is less socialism than capitalism or more socialism?

I think right now we are too capitalist focused. We need to become more socially minded in our capitalist policy making.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Ok what if communism is in place, how can it be impossible for communism to continue to exist because of people that want to be rewarded more for working more? I think people would naturally get what they deserve in communism, because there is no state in communism, only in socialism or state capitalism under the banner of "communism".

Because I think that some people would naturally work harder than others, for whatever reason. In doing so they would think it unfair that certain people who were not pulling their weight received the same level of compensation that they received for doing more work. They would start to resent this and would long for a world in which they would be rewarded for their hard work. I think it would eventually cause revolution of some sort and we'd get back to a capitalist system.

Ok now I understand what you are saying, that in a communist system it is hard to calculate effort, however how does effort get calculated in capitalism? In capitalism there is the miserable wage-system, and the only means of changing it is just increasing the minimum wage level and increasing taxes on the rich and eliminating taxes on food. I think the solution to proper compensation in accordance to effort done is illustrated and explained in Karl Marx's book titled "Poverty of Philsophy", did you read it? If you did not, you should, I am sure you can find a free copy on the internet to read directly or you can just check it out from any local public library.

So you mean there is less socialism than capitalism or more socialism?

I think right now we are too capitalist focused. We need to become more socially minded in our capitalist policy making.

What is capital, is not capital money? And is not money in itself a great tyranny over society? Because it reduces family, privacy, marriage, religion, and property into mere commodity and or money relation to be exploited for egotistical advantage at the expense of ruining of all inherent unity of society, and uniting society under the false banner of Colonist Nationalism only. Colonist Nationalism is the Nationalism of those countries that are expansive tracts of land with ruling-classes made up of foreign colonists and or descendants of foreign colonists/immigrants (de facto colonists).

[Gnote]

Ok now I understand what you are saying, that in a communist system it is hard to calculate effort, however how does effort get calculated in capitalism?

I believe that in my ideal social democratic world effort would be calculated based on the proportion of productivity that you are responsible for and that you would be remunerated accordingly. This is certainly not the case currently, as corporate CEOs and the like are paid grossly disproportionate to the wealth the create in society.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Ok now I understand what you are saying, that in a communist system it is hard to calculate effort, however how does effort get calculated in capitalism?

I believe that in my ideal social democratic world effort would be calculated based on the proportion of productivity that you are responsible for and that you would be remunerated accordingly. This is certainly not the case currently, as corporate CEOs and the like are paid grossly disproportionate to the wealth the create in society.

What is the first step in achieving this:

1. Remunerating on the basis of individual effort.

or

2. Remunerating on the basis of class-effort, such as of proper compensation to the entire working-class which would exceed the amount of comensation in monetary value than any other class, for the working-class being the sole productive-class.

[Gnote]

Ok now I understand what you are saying, that in a communist system it is hard to calculate effort, however how does effort get calculated in capitalism?

I believe that in my ideal social democratic world effort would be calculated based on the proportion of productivity that you are responsible for and that you would be remunerated accordingly. This is certainly not the case currently, as corporate CEOs and the like are paid grossly disproportionate to the wealth the create in society.

What is the first step in achieving this:

1. Remunerating on the basis of individual effort.

or

2. Remunerating on the basis of class-effort, such as of proper compensation to the entire working-class which would exceed the amount of comensation in monetary value than any other class, for the working-class being the sole productive-class.

3. Allow the market to dictate the level of remuneration provided to individuals. Then have the government redistribute the wealth in order to level the "opportunity playing field."