Rape Culture - Page 32 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Do you believe rape culture exist in the west?

Yes, rape culture exist in western societies
14
27%
No, rape culture does not exist or no longer exist in western societies
28
54%
Other
10
19%
By Truth To Power
#14934421
Godstud wrote:A great many things lead to rape, and it's not solely one thing, either.

Read the definition, FFS>

rape culture:
a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

That doesn't describe any advanced liberal democracy. It does describe many if not most African and Muslim countries.
User avatar
By Wellsy
#14934426
I suspect the emphasis on such countries reflects something true as a conclusion (rape does occur and there are attitudes that correspond in kaintaining such hostility) but the basis for thinking such is possibly false (Their culture is seperate, essentially different and inferior).

Which I think comes from certain tendencies assumed in the western liberal democracies which end up without criticism inspite of the comparable aspects that may be quantitatively different but not clearly all that qualitatively different. In part because such problems are seemingly outright denied as all that prevalent or culturally significant as if we stepped into a utopia at some point and it all just became a case of a few bad eggs rather than a point of struggle that remains charged today.
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=164968

The denial is as typical of the denial of child abuse in any country. People sinply ignore or are too distant from dealing with such problems to see how much violence occurs as a regular part of any society and isn’t somethibg to be confined to some demographic if excluded would largely resolve the matter.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14934465
Liberal democracy seems to be based upon passing more and more laws on every social interaction and then complaining about too many people going to prison.
There was no reason for ‘spousal rape’. It just created a more serious crime because ‘spousal abuse’ was so poorly enforced mainly due to the victims refusing to press charges.
We seem to prefer creating stricter laws to correct our failure in enforcing less strict laws. A process that results in harsh and unequal treatment for the few who are charged.
This trend creates a system that is not ‘fair or reasonable’. We create laws too harsh to be enforced.
User avatar
By Albert
#14934536
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/emrazz/status/1018723924807503873
If you take daily precaution to avoid being raped then you are either paranoid or living in bad place like Sweden.
By skinster
#14934539
This is the world of women, everywhere, Albert. If you ever manage to get yourself a girlfriend, be sure to ask about this stuff.
User avatar
By Albert
#14934546
Guys as well take daily precaution to not get raped or beaten up or tricked, cheated, get together with a woman who only uses you for money and then takes your kids and leaves you with nothing. That is life, we do not hate blame the whole other sex for it.

Women like you just seem to hate men in general. Perhaps you should look at yourself why your relationships are not working out.
By skinster
#14934557
I don't hate men, the opposite is true. :lol:

I mean, I might hate johns and rapists in general, but that's a different thing and perfectly reasonable in my humble opinion.

As I said, ask women you know. Even if your mum is the only woman in your life, ask her.
User avatar
By Wellsy
#14934560
What do men do to avoid such things? Generally I think of physical assault which is prevalent among drunk men, yet campaigns should they exist don’t say men shouldn’t drink or should stay home. Instead i saw campaigns about being a sensible friend who looked out for a mate who was drunk, emphasizing social reaponsibility and not asking for imposition on mens autonomy in public, requiring that they simply remove themselves entirely.

So I think it would be better to give attention to something that seems more comparable beyond the single attribute of men avoiding tjings which is to vague a point to compare yet. As its typical that men don’t feel as threatened or unsafe in public comparable to women which is isolated as women over reacting without connecting it to the reality in which many women do regulate their own behaviour in public under the guise of protecting themselves.

[url]lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=4448180&fileOId=4461660[/url]
Patriarchy is a system of beliefs that fundamentally asserts the supremacy of the male (Brinson, 1992:361). It exist through people’s upholding of the structures without questioning them, because it has become a system of norms (Thomsson, ElvinNowak, 2013:38) that include myths, rules and assumptions which with time are taken for granted (Ibid, 2013:30). Men’s position of dominance is normalized through language (Berrington, Jones, 2002:308) and that process includes a normalizing of male aggression. Sexual violence is constructed as a risk that women can protect themselves against, if acting responsible (Ibid:317). By that, women are socialized into fear of male violence (Ibid:319) and thus become subjects of violence and objects of fear (Marcus, 1992:398), the so called subjection process (Ibid:394). Due to that, women are expected to monitor and restrict their behavior (Berrington, Jones, 2002:317) and even hinder their movements in an attempt to ensure the safety of their bodies (Edwards et al, 2011:767). Dr. Eileen Berrington and Dr. Helen Jones, mean that the relationship between the patriarchal construction of the society and the existence of male violence can be understood as part of a system of power (Berrington, Jones, 2002:308). ... Rape myths exist in symbiosis with cultural stereotypes of “ideal” behavior for women and men (Brinson, 1992:361). Questioning the behavior of the woman before the rape is the same thing as saying that something she did provoked a man to rape her. By talking about being in the “wrong” place, wearing the “wrong” clothes and acting in the “wrong” way presupposes that there is a right way for women to behave (Ibid:362). These “norms of femininity” as Berrington and Jones chose to call them, describe the cultural attributes and expectations assigned to women (Berrington, Jones, 2002:309). The horror of rape is not that it steals something from women, but that it makes women into things to be taken (Marcus, 1992:399). The production of a norm of behavior is a form of power that regulate, control and normalize and aim to produce docile and useful bodies (Henderson, 2013:238).This creates an assumption that that women can, when behaving correct and responsible, avoid the violence of men (Berrington, Jones, 2002:307). Henderson claims that historically women have been told to avoid rape by restricting their choices, movements and behavior (Henderson, 2013:233).

https://www.personalitycafe.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Ftinyurl.com%2Flzu47p6
Let us be exact about this process. In acquiring the bodily habits that render the subject "feminine," habits that are inculcated at a young age and then constantly redefined and maintained, the woman learns to accept her body as dangerous, willful, fragile, and hostile. It constantly poses the possibility of threat, and only persistent vigilance can limit the risk at which it places the woman. The production of such a body reflects and supports a status quo that refuses, in the particular case of sexual assault, to consider the victim innocent until proven guilty; rather, the opposite is assumed.

The threat of rape, then, is a constitutive and sustained moment in the production of the distinctly feminine body. It is the pervasive danger that renders so much public space off-limits, a danger so omnipresent, in fact, that the "safety zone" women attempt to create rarely exceeds the limits of their own limbs and quite often falls far short of that radius. Women consider their flesh not only weak and breakable, but also violable. The truth inscribed on the woman's body is not that, biologically, all men are potential rapists. It is rather that, biologically, all women are potential rape victims. Note, too, that this bodily inscription may take place without the explicit articulation of the concept of "rape" or the actual experience of sexual assault. Girls especially may know that their bodies are inherently dangerous without being clear as to the precise nature of the danger they present. They may only sense that something very bad and very hurtful will befall them should their surveillance falter, and, correspondingly, that all sorts of social opportunities will be open to them should their project of femininity be successful.9"


What terrorizes men and has society tell them they can protect themselves if they simply restrict themselves from the public space?
User avatar
By Albert
#14934582
I take preemptive measures to stay away from certain public spaces yes. It is fact of life, some areas, some places, some people you stay away from because of safety concerns. You do this as a guy or as a girl. It is common sense.

Nature has also made women less stronger then man so naturally they will feel more vulnerable, nothing can be done about it, it is just factor of life that we all live in. In turn nature gave protective instinct for men towards women, so women benefit from that and it balance itself out. Nature already took care of that, why need fix it.

Before I go with a group of guys and girls for that matter I make sure they are good people and trustworthy so I do not end up caught up in bad situation. If this is what feminist complain about it is not only akin to women; men do this as well, it is called living in this world. It seems to me feminism in its core wants to build a perfect world, it is idealistic in its nature.

Also regarding about believing women are innocent victims always, it is unrealistic. To investigate justly police or whomever tries to resolve an incident has to look at thing objectively. We can not assume accused is guilty or that a victim is actually a victim until all evidence and the situation is understood at first. People lie, women lie, and a person can purposely accuse someone of something when in actuality no wrong was committed.

Yes, there could also be a case where a person believes there was wrong committed but in actuality no wrong was done. This whole idea of feminism that women must be always believed to be a victim is dangerous notion that impedes proper conduct of justice. This radicalism has entered the justice system and general culture with bad consequences. And quit frankly it is just crazy.

skinster wrote:I don't hate men, the opposite is true. :lol:

I mean, I might hate johns and rapists in general, but that's a different thing and perfectly reasonable in my humble opinion.

As I said, ask women you know. Even if your mum is the only woman in your life, ask her.
You are fighting the evil patriarchy that oppresses you, and here I believed you that you love men. Who are you kidding?

Your attitude is negative towards men from the get go. This is the reason I would never date a feminist, their conception of men-women relations are broken.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#14934595
Godstud wrote:Read the definition, FFS>

rape culture:
a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Western society trivilizes and normalizes recreational sex outside of marriage, eugenic and economic abortion, homosexuality and so forth. Patriarchy traditionally protected women, but did not treat them as equals. Those protections have been forcibly removed as women assert that they are equal to men. Men who open the door for women get shamed by feminists. I'm pretty sure you aren't a big fan of patriarchy.

As a man, I would be concerned if I thought there were a lot of chances that I would be raped. However, as it stands, I'm apparently not so compelling to the same sex that someone would go to violent lengths to forcibly compel me to copulate with them. Consequently, I have little to fear. I would imagine an attractive woman that doesn't feel that she is the equal of a man might be concerned. I would guess women who feel themselves to be the equal of men generally aren't too concerned with this sort of thing.

Albert wrote:I think today there is respect lost between both sexes, and women are as responsible for it as men.

I think the more perverse notions of egalitarianism, very popular in leftist circles, is more to blame.

Albert wrote:Potemkin mentioned that when he was growing up in 70s men were very disrespectful towards women, whereas someone else had mentioned that before the cultural revolution of the west men were considerably respectful.

It does seem that many women are trying to rebuild what other women and leftists destroyed in terms of women being protected by men.

Albert wrote:I personally believe the forgoing of traditional values in relation between men and women have led to deterioration of respect between the two sexes.

A lazy way to think is that generally everything the left touches turns to shit. That way you really don't have to consider their arguments. Just consider the source. However, I think they were successful in selling all their horseshit, because so-called conservatives didn't know why traditional values worked.

Godstud wrote:@Albert, if by respectful to women you mean beating, or raping, their wives in private, then no, traditional values are shit.

Traditionally, you cannot rape a wife. This is something that the left tries to change too, as though sex requires something like negotiated consent every time. In traditional societies, only husbands can have sex with their wives. Marriage is consent, since it literally means having heterosexual sex.

Godstud wrote:A woman is not disrespecting herself when she wears clothing that makes her attractive. Were this also a thing that men get(shamed), it might be an argument. It's not.

Let's set Albert's argument aside for a moment. First, you are assuming that an argument is only valid if it has mutuality, which is a legal concept and not a biological one. Whether a woman is disrespecting herself or not, biologically she is inviting sexual competition.

Godstud wrote:Only if you're an Incel or MGTOW, otherwise you realize that women are still the same.

Why do you theorize that only the very nascent Incel and MGTOW groups are the origin of sexual competition.

Godstud wrote:Men are not getting raped by women on any reasonable level, so no, the hate is not mutual.

That is because nature generally makes the males of a species compete for females, and for males to use aggression where competition and consent are not present. Consent in biology is typically given if the female thinks the male is worthy, which should give rise to selective preferences.

Pants-of-dog wrote:1. The fact that you are more likley to get raped somewhere else does not mean that we do not live in a “rape culture”.

It does make it somewhat ridiculous to try to isolate that as a trait of a society that is the least likely to embrace such behavior relative to all others.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Speaking of a “better” past and assaulting your partner with impunity, spousal rape was only criminalised recently.

Congratulations on once in awhile saying something intelligent.

Pants-of-dog wrote:How is it “better” when rape is actually legal?

In a traditional marriage, it may increase the birth rate.

Albert wrote:I do not think men raped and abused their wives with impunity in traditional society.

Yes, but today's extreme left considers a woman having sex when she's not in the mood or utterly begging for it to be rape. That's where things differ, and in some ways it also has to do with the type of media involved. The sort of extreme retard arguments that we hear from the left work well on television, but other media doesn't necessarily treat conflict in such stark terms.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Instead, I pointed out that men could legally rape their wives. Marital rape was only criminalised here in 1983. So, yes, men could rape and abuse their wives with impunity in traditional society. It is almost certain that many did so.

True enough, but it is almost pointless statute. How do you prove such a charge when you have only he-said-she-said? It creates a situation where one person can file a criminal charge against the other as blackmail, and there isn't an easy way to defend it. That is why traditional values prevailed for so long, and why they still do although we have a bifurcation of society based on those who adopt liberal lifestyle and those who don't as noted by Charles Murray in "Coming Apart."

Pants-of-dog wrote:Obviously, the idea that things were better in the past is a nostalgic myth and not an actual fact.

The idea of progressives that everything always gets better is also a myth.

Rancid wrote:I long for the days where you can just grab the secretaries ass.

And receive a firm smack on the face... No need for excessive law enforcement...

Albert wrote:Considering that rape could get you hanged in the past.

Stealing a man's horse could get you hanged in the past too, whereas cattle rustling would get you a long-term prison sentence. Today, nobody gets hung for car theft, or even violent car-jacking for that matter. Society is far too tolerant of criminal behavior.

Albert wrote:Also communities were much closer in the past so abuse could get exposed quicker, similarly fathers ware much more involved in his daughter's lives, whereas they were obligated culturally and legally to provide for their daughters especially if they were not married.

Right. Men beating the living shit out of a wife beater also wouldn't get punished too harshly either.

Albert wrote:Prosecuting abuse on the ground of marital rape makes the whole issue of abuse in marriage much ridiculous. It just does not make sense.

Right. It also tends to make someone automatically unemployable. That is to say, it will almost certainly destroy a marriage and put a women in a worse situation financially more often than not.

Albert wrote:You have to go back to the Sexual Revolution of the 60s-70s for that. Otherwise depending how far you want to go back in traditional society, that could get you shot in a duel.

I think dueling should be lawful as well. That would do a lot to restore manners.

One Degree wrote:Liberal democracy seems to be based upon passing more and more laws on every social interaction and then complaining about too many people going to prison.

Yes. Especially if they are black. I always find it humorous that today's left doesn't seem to recall that gun control was really just "negro control," and still is. Who gets tagged for violating gun control laws the most? Is that because the police are racist?

One Degree wrote:It just created a more serious crime because ‘spousal abuse’ was so poorly enforced mainly due to the victims refusing to press charges.
We seem to prefer creating stricter laws to correct our failure in enforcing less strict laws. A process that results in harsh and unequal treatment for the few who are charged.

Very well put, One Degree. You should get medal for that post. All the people clamoring for "Black Lives Matter" are the same one clamoring for strict spousal abuse laws. These laws fall disproportionately on the poor, where frustration-aggression responses are the most common. Since inner city poor are often minorities and municipal police are involved in every aspect of life, these types of things will likely fall disproportionately on poor minorities. Then, we will be called racist for enforcing the law on top of it.

Albert wrote:Guys as well take daily precaution to not get raped or beaten up or tricked, cheated, get together with a woman who only uses you for money and then takes your kids and leaves you with nothing.

Yeah. As much as I want to wear spandex and high heels and a push-up bra everywhere I go, I don't do that, because I don't want to get raped. Sometimes, I want to go roller skating in a pink speedo, but then I think about how I might get raped. So I don't do that either. :lol:

Albert wrote:Nature has also made women less stronger then man so naturally they will feel more vulnerable, nothing can be done about it, it is just factor of life that we all live in. In turn nature gave protective instinct for men towards women, so women benefit from that and it balance itself out. Nature already took care of that, why need fix it.

That's generally why leftist ideas don't work, because they are not consistent with nature. It is also why people with odd gender identity and sexual preference issues always seem to need some sort of rule-based system and seek to impose it on everyone else.
User avatar
By Igor Antunov
#14934599
The only signs of an organized 'rape culture' I've seen is limited to liberal circlejerks, i.e media and Hollywood. Which is ironic. But not really, since they're projecting their culture onto the rest of society.

:lol:
By skinster
#14934603
Albert wrote:. You are fighting the evil patriarchy that oppresses you, and here I believed you that you love men. Who are you kidding?


I am opposed to patriarchy, yes, a system that negatively affects men as well as women.

I don't care if you don't believe me when I say I don't hate men. Try telling that to my male friends, brothers, lovers, etc. They would laugh you out the room. Even my interactions with men here - present company excluded - are often fine and fun, unless they have shit politics. :D

This is the reason I would never date a feminist...


Chance would be a fine thing! :lol:
User avatar
By Albert
#14934617
blackjack21 wrote: I think the more perverse notions of egalitarianism, very popular in leftist circles, is more to blame.
I agree, in the end it is progressives and their feminist counterpart that are really responsible for derailing society in this regard among many.

It does seem that many women are trying to rebuild what other women and leftists destroyed in terms of women being protected by men.
Women are lost these days as much as men. They want the traditional treatment yet they also want the power that feminism provides, but you can not have both. This intern produces much confusion as to how men should behave towards women and how women should behave towards men. Because of this both women and men are at the loss in relations. The unfortunate part this leads to much pain and anger in relationships. So it is not just confusion that we are dealing with, society is in visceral pain.

So thus these benevolent egalitarians and progressives in their pursuit of better world have brought untold suffering and pain.

A lazy way to think is that generally everything the left touches turns to shit. That way you really don't have to consider their arguments. Just consider the source. However, I think they were successful in selling all their horseshit, because so-called conservatives didn't know why traditional values worked.
I agree, I was reading about the rise of feminism; back in late 19th early 20th century people who were defending traditional society against feminism really did not understand why they were practicing the ancient custom the way they were. To them it was customs that were past down from the past, they understood they were important and done for a good reason, but they did not know why.

Feminist took advantage of this ignorance thus winning the cultural debate because of this.

As for "leftist" zeitgeist, that is a fascinating matter, I have come to the conclusion that it come from a bad place and that of ignorance; even though it is cloaked in good intentions. It is actually of vile source. What I'm trying to figure out is that are they actually aware of it. It seems that some actually mighty be fully aware of it and know they come from a vile place, yet it seems others are just taken in by the rhetoric and blindly follow it. The ones that are aware of their nature seem actually derive pleasure in destroying society by depravity. Turning innocence into dirt.

Stealing a man's horse could get you hanged in the past too, whereas cattle rustling would get you a long-term prison sentence. Today, nobody gets hung for car theft, or even violent car-jacking for that matter. Society is far too tolerant of criminal behavior.
Sometimes I think traditional society was better at eliminating assholes much earlier on and saving us all the suffering. I do see though the benefits of being lenient as it will allow some people to reform. Yet I wonder have we have become too lenient, cause as far as I can see most people don't really change. :hmm:

This is a difficult subject on its own though. I'm still exploring it and do not have any certain conclusion on it but I do lean more towards much stricter society then we have now. As it usually takes one assholes in community to cause harm to many. It is actually surprising how much one asshole can cause suffering for so many people.


Right. It also tends to make someone automatically unemployable. That is to say, it will almost certainly destroy a marriage and put a women in a worse situation financially more often than not.
It also opened doors for the law to be abused. That is the most detrimental consequence of this. What if the situation was reversed and you can accuse your wife of rape? Technically in legal sense you can, but culturally you will not be taken seriously and the judge will probably laugh at you.

I think dueling should be lawful as well. That would do a lot to restore manners.
Back in the day even if you touches someones wife's hip was an act of dishonour and a cause for duel; if her husband did not duel the offender that was considered to be cowardliness. That is in polite society with commoners it might have been less so rigorous.

Yeah. As much as I want to wear spandex and high heels and a push-up bra everywhere I go, I don't do that, because I don't want to get raped. Sometimes, I want to go roller skating in a pink speedo, but then I think about how I might get raped. So I don't do that either. :lol:
A lot of young guys actually do get abused especially teenagers, by gay men or women for that matter. Women do use and abuse young men. Guys don't speak about these issues because by modern culture they are seen as horn dogs and should not be troubled by such matters. It is something: "we guys get in life and we should tough it out".

That is the irony of our modern feminist society, men get completely shitted on and disrespected. While women continue to proclaim how much of a victims they are in this life. Whilst the integrity of men not only gets ignored but really guys just get shitted on continuously as if their not human. This is why I believe feminism is composed by pure bitches to put it lightly. That in core of it simply despise men.

That's generally why leftist ideas don't work, because they are not consistent with nature. It is also why people with odd gender identity and sexual preference issues always seem to need some sort of rule-based system and seek to impose it on everyone else.
It is surprising indeed, I just do not understand how they can be so ignorant of functions of the world. Not saying that I understand everything in this world, obviously not, but enough to see that these people are full of bullock who can not themselves see that they are full of nonsense.


skinster wrote:I am opposed to patriarchy, yes, a system that negatively affects men as well as women.

I don't care if you don't believe me when I say I don't hate men. Try telling that to my male friends, brothers, lovers, etc. They would laugh you out the room. Even my interactions with men here - present company excluded - are often fine and fun, unless they have shit politics. :D
No, I do not believe you. And I'm sure your cat will agree with me.
Last edited by Albert on 22 Jul 2018 02:27, edited 1 time in total.
By Pants-of-dog
#14934744
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Please provide evidence for this claim (with a definition of Rape).

Thanks.


https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ma ... l-rape.pdf

The cited study says that it happens to 1 in 8 wives, and it occurs in 7% to 14% of the population.

define "better."

Thanks.


Well, since it was your wife who claimed that it was better back in the day, I suggest asking her.

——————————

Albert wrote:I imagine that abuse in the past was dealt with much more swiftly and harshly. Considering that rape could get you hanged in the past.

Also communities were much closer in the past so abuse could get exposed quicker, similarly fathers ware much more involved in his daughter's lives, whereas they were obligated culturally and legally to provide for their daughters especially if they were not married. So if abuse did occur I imagine fathers would step in to protect their daughters and could quickly take them back home from abuse if necessary.

There were other legal means to fight abuse in homes, you could get punished for battery or neglect.


If you would like to support any if these claims with evidence, please do so.

Until then, please note that I will dismiss this as speculation rather than an argument. I am sure you understand why.

Prosecuting abuse on the ground of marital rape makes the whole issue of abuse in marriage much ridiculous. It just does not make sense.


I have no idea what this means.
By Code Rood
#14942162
Countries like Sweden didn't have a ''rape culture'' until they started letting third worlders in. Oh wait... that's not politically correct?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14942163
No, it's simply a stupid statement, with no basis in reality. You must be new here and actually didn't read anything in this thread.
By Code Rood
#14942166
Godstud wrote:No, it's simply a stupid statement, with no basis in reality.


A stupid statement? Do you have any idea what's going on in places like Sweden and Norway these days? You want me to post some stats here? A lot of bad things are happening (not just the skyrocketing of rape) that were unheard of just a few decades ago.
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