Am I racist in your opinion? - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Am I racist?

Yes
14
56%
No
11
44%
#15099477
Atlantis wrote:@Political Interest, you still haven't provided any evidence for whites being subjected to systemic racism. If you think that the individual cases of racism against whites you have mentioned represent systemic racism, then you don't know what racism is all about. You haven't put yourself in the position of a colored person who suffers some sort of discrimination every day of his/her life.


I have already acknowledged the existence of systemic racism against POC, that is not in question.

The reason I cannot provide you information proving that whites also suffer from theoretical or real systemic racism is because there isn't any. The absence of data does not mean it doesn't exist, however. Social science is dead set upon advancing one particular narrative, that of white privilege. This is the established orthodoxy and world view around which most academics think.

How, for example, are we going to conduct such a test? All of the tests conducted in Western societies obviously take place in conditions where whites hold institutional power.

If you want to make the absurd claim that whites hold institutional power in Korea and Japan then perhaps we could conduct empirical studies in those countries to determine whether or not it is true.

Atlantis wrote:Whites are privileged not only in white societies but almost everywhere they go. With a British passport you can go without visa to almost any country you want to go. You can even settle in numerous countries without too much hassle. Most black Africans can only emigrate illegally by risking their lives. I have shown you how black and white Americans are treated differently in third countries like Japan. The color of your skin determines whether you are welcome or not. The same applies to many countries where whites don't have "institutional power" as you put it.

That is white privilege.


You make broad brush generalisations without evidence that substantiates them.

The treatment of whites in Japan is no doubt better than it is of blacks but this does not mean that whites will have an institutional advantage over Japanese in Japan. I now await your response where you will claim that Japanese prefer whites over Japanese.

That the volume and incidence of discrimination against blacks is higher than it is against whites does not preclude the possibility that it exists against whites, if somewhat less common.

You have still not explained how, through some feat of intellectual gymnastics, you have arrived at the conclusion that a white citizen in a POC majority country like South Africa or Pakistan could hold institutional power over local non POC citizens when the latter constitute a majority and control police, media, courts, armed forces etc.
#15099480
Political Interest wrote:You have still not explained how, through some feat of intellectual gymnastics, you have arrived at the conclusion that a white citizen in a POC majority country like South Africa or Pakistan could hold institutional power over local non POC citizens when the latter constitute a majority and control police, media, courts, armed forces etc.


Did you mean to write "local POC"? Not sure how the paragraph would otherwise make sense.

At any rate, whites in South Africa still control most of the country's wealth and capital even though they are under-represented in police, media, courts, armed forces, etc.
#15099501
Donna wrote:Did you mean to write "local POC"? Not sure how the paragraph would otherwise make sense.

At any rate, whites in South Africa still control most of the country's wealth and capital even though they are under-represented in police, media, courts, armed forces, etc.


I just realized that NOTHING could change this conflict. Those that were injured are radicalized and hence believe violence, burning of buildings, and looting is OK. That explains why the black youth of this era is a 1000 times more angry than the grandparents that lived under Jim Crow. I cannot think of anything that will make things better. Some people have tried begging for forgiveness on their knees, but that solves nothing.

This radicalization is dangerous-------as dangerous as the radicalization of NAZI types or Muslims that feel they have grievances
#15099507
The true radicals are the racist assholes. They do not represent the norm, and that's why most people are against it. You're the radical, @Julian658. YOU.
#15099511
Julian658 wrote:I just realized that NOTHING could change this conflict. Those that were injured are radicalized and hence believe violence, burning of buildings, and looting is OK. That explains why the black youth of this era is a 1000 times more angry than the grandparents that lived under Jim Crow.

Young people of this generation of all races are more aggressive in their activism. Much if it is due to less and less respect for authority figures as the decades march on. This isn't the fault of the young people, it's the parents, teachers, and society.

Parents now are so soft many are afraid of disciplining their children properly for fear of hurting their feelings or self-esteem, or looking like a jerk in public. So their children get away with more bad behaviour. Many young people have grown up learning since birth that if you cry and throw tantrums you can get your way.

Teachers as authority are also less respected. In the 1950's a teacher would slap your hand with a belt or stick or whatnot if you got out of line. Now if a student gets in a major disagreement with a teacher they can get their parents to bring it to the principle or the school board. Parents are more and more taking their child's side than the teachers, especially as they get into high school.

Teachers are also softer like parents these days. They'll feel bad for kids who make up some excuse for not finishing an assignment on time. They give out useless participation awards and some are afraid to give zeros on assignments in case they may hurt the student's self-esteem.

So these children grow up entitled, and have learned that if they whine and complain loud enough they can often get their way. Young POC and other minorities have also learned that they can use their minority status as a weapon to garner sympathy or use threats of labeling people racist, sexist, homophobic etc to get others to comply with their wishes. Welcome to 2020.

Every generation has activism, but people are becoming less and less likely to defer to authority figures and more likely to challenge them. This has it's positives and negatives i guess.
#15099512
Unthinking Majority wrote:Young people of this generation of all races are more aggressive in their activism. Much if it is due to less and less respect for authority figures as the decades march on. This isn't the fault of the young people, it's the parents, teachers, and society.

Parents now are so soft many are afraid of disciplining their children properly for fear of hurting their feelings or self-esteem, or looking like a jerk in public. So their children get away with more bad behaviour. Many young people have grown up learning since birth that if you cry and throw tantrums you can get your way.

Teachers as authority are also less respected. In the 1950's a teacher would slap your hand with a belt or stick or whatnot if you got out of line. Now if a student gets in a major disagreement with a teacher they can get their parents to bring it to the principle or the school board. Parents are more and more taking their child's side than the teachers, especially as they get into high school.

Teachers are also softer like parents these days. They'll feel bad for kids who make up some excuse for not finishing an assignment on time. They give out useless participation awards and some are afraid to give zeros on assignments in case they may hurt the student's self-esteem.

So these children grow up entitled, and have learned that if they whine and complain loud enough they can often get their way. Young POC and other minorities have also learned that they can use their minority status as a weapon to garner sympathy or use threats of labeling people racist, sexist, homophobic etc to get others to comply with their wishes. Welcome to 2020.

Every generation has activism, but people are becoming less and less likely to defer to authority figures and more likely to challenge them. This has it's positives and negatives i guess.


Nah, young people have always been rebellious. Before today it was crust punks. Then it was hippies. Then it was bohemians and anarchists. Before then it was the Young Hegelians and so on. For much of modern history the youth have been slayers of sacred cows.
#15099517
Donna wrote:Nah, young people have always been rebellious. Before today it was crust punks. Then it was hippies. Then it was bohemians and anarchists. Before then it was the Young Hegelians and so on. For much of modern history the youth have been slayers of sacred cows.


They've always been rebellious but i think as the decades roll on they've become more bold, because they can get away with more. And I think now people get upset about lesser and lesser injustices, because we're more sensitive.
#15099518
Unthinking Majority wrote:They've always been rebellious but i think as the decades roll on they've become more bold, because they can get away with more. And I think now people get upset about lesser and lesser injustices, because we're more sensitive.


Disagree. Different generations have different expectations.
#15099530
Unthinking Majority wrote:They've always been rebellious but i think as the decades roll on they've become more bold, because they can get away with more. And I think now people get upset about lesser and lesser injustices, because we're more sensitive.


As things are improving there is more discontent. It may be incredibly high expectations and fragility. This is the era of microaggressions, free spaces, PC culture, etc. White people are besides themselves as they get down of their knees and pray to black people, others wash the feet of black people and the congressmen wear AFrican clothing items. This racism of low expectations is all "fussed up" and if this continues we will see serious violence.

They don't like Trump because he does not say kind words or practices racism of low expectations. Meanwhile Trump has done more for blacks than Obama. The killing of George Floyd is tragic, but it is not even in the top one hundred problems of black America.
#15099533
Julian658 wrote:As things are improving there is more discontent. It may be incredibly high expectations and fragility. This is the era of microaggressions, free spaces, PC culture, etc. White people are besides themselves as they get down of their knees and pray to black people, others wash the feet of black people and the congressmen wear AFrican clothing items. This racism of low expectations is all "fussed up" and if this continues we will see serious violence.

They don't like Trump because he does not say kind words or practices racism of low expectations. Meanwhile Trump has done more for blacks than Obama. The killing of George Floyd is tragic, but it is not even in the top one hundred problems of black America.


There's limits to everything. If people cry racism or sexism etc too much people will stop taking it as seriously, it becomes the boy who cried wolf. It's the same with anything PC. People will care up to a certain limit, then will stop caring. It's like COVID lockdown, after awhile people get tired and restless they want to get outside.

Hopefully we'll find some kind of equalibrium.
#15099535
Calling racism for what it is, is not "crying wolf", and it should absolutely be taken seriously.

Of course, the racists, of which there are many among the right wing in Pofo, are against calling it what it actually is. It's no big surprise.

You see it here.
#15099538
Unthinking Majority wrote:There's limits to everything. If people cry racism or sexism etc too much people will stop taking it as seriously, it becomes the boy who cried wolf. It's the same with anything PC. People will care up to a certain limit, then will stop caring. It's like COVID lockdown, after awhile people get tired and restless they want to get outside.

Hopefully we'll find some kind of equalibrium.

There is nothing worse than a left winger that treats blacks with condescending racism of low expectations. They have been at it for decades and have created a mess. There is no difference between black and white hence racism is not supposed to exist. However, racism is the meal ticket of the left. Without racism Al Sharpton does not have a career.
#15099588
Julian658 wrote:How can blacks achieved that sort of privilege? Do you have any ideas?


Black countries would have to outperform white countries economically and scientifically. Let's say Nigeria were to develop a new type of quantum computer, fighter airplanes and nukes outperforming Western inventions by a large margin. Nigeria would then have to use its advance to suppress white countries economically by political or military means to achieve an advantage for itself and its citizens. Nigerian banks and trading companies would start to control the global trade. Whites would then emigrate to Nigeria to sweep the streets and Nigerian expats would jet-set across the world to sit at the levers of powers.

It's unlikely the Nigeria or any other African country, or all African countries together, will achieve this; however, it's just a matter of time before China will get there. I don't believe that China will achieve a military hegemony of the type the US has, but Chinese influence will undoubtedly increase.

Political Interest wrote:How, for example, are we going to conduct such a test? All of the tests conducted in Western societies obviously take place in conditions where whites hold institutional power.


So you admit POC discrimination in Western societies is not only systematic but also institutional. You assume that it is normal for whites to hold institutional power and that ethnic minorities are discriminated against.

If you want to make the absurd claim that whites hold institutional power in Korea and Japan then perhaps we could conduct empirical studies in those countries to determine whether or not it is true.


Now you got me completely confused. I never made such a claim and why should it be necessary for whites to hold power in Japan or Korea to prove racial discrimination?

On the contrary, it is the fact that whites receive privileged treatment over blacks even in countries where whites don't hold institutional power that proves the universality of white privilege.

I cited your username in another thread where I linked the story about an NHK children's animation video in Japan which clearly shows a distorted caricature of blacks in the US. Any British or American black person who has been in Japan knows that they are treated very differently from their white compatriots. A black friend of mine loves everything Japanese, but when she went to Japan to study, she couldn't take the constant discrimination and left after a year. Even if you don't have to face violent discrimination, the constant trickle of discrimination just starts to grate on your nerves. She was born in Germany just like me, but as a white European I never had any problems even after 15 years in Japan.

We have recently seen the crude racism leveled against black African students in China. I have noted that this is not an isolated phenomenon but goes back a long time in history. Even when I first started to study Chinese 40 odd years ago, there were stories about African students in China having a hard time. I remember reading the story of a Chinese student from a wealthy family who was among the first to be sent to the US to study in the 19th century. Being from a wealthy family, he was obviously very learned in traditional Chinese culture, yet when he got to the States he accepted that he was treated as an inferior by whites since Western countries had technological achievements even the most nationalistic-minded Chinese could not deny were superior to what the Chinese had at the time. So he looked up towards whites (just like some whites still get the VIP treatment in Japan even today), but what this proud Chinese nationalist could not stomach was that he was put on the same social level as blacks, Hispanics and other non-whites. He bitterly complained in his letters to his father that the whites didn't treat him any better than they treated blacks.

With the colonial conquest, whites established their position as a sort of global ruling class, a bit like the Manchu conquerors of China established their position as the ruling class of the Qing dynasty. Even the least talented Manchu could still count on being promoted to some sort of position by virtue of his Manchu privilege.
#15099645
Atlantis wrote:Black countries would have to outperform white countries economically and scientifically. Let's say Nigeria were to develop a new type of quantum computer, fighter airplanes and nukes outperforming Western inventions by a large margin. Nigeria would then have to use its advance to suppress white countries economically by political or military means to achieve an advantage for itself and its citizens. Nigerian banks and trading companies would start to control the global trade. Whites would then emigrate to Nigeria to sweep the streets and Nigerian expats would jet-set across the world to sit at the levers of powers.

It's unlikely the Nigeria or any other African country, or all African countries together, will achieve this; however, it's just a matter of time before China will get there. I don't believe that China will achieve a military hegemony of the type the US has, but Chinese influence will undoubtedly increase.


I believe there is a much easier pathway to gain privilege. For example in America immigrants from Asia, India, and even Nigeria do quite well. In many instances better than Americans of European origin. Black immigrants from the West Indies also easily outperform American blacks. On visual inspection the Africans and many from the West Indies have much more melanin than American Blacks and yet they thrive in America. Immigrants form India also have quite a bit of melanin and routinely outperform Americans of European origin.

I fully understand black Americans were victimized to a much greater degree than the above immigrants. They used to have post cards in the not so distant past depicting lynchings. This has led to a great deal of post racial PTSD. However, it is obvious that the main difference between a black from Africa (or the West Indies) and an American black is the sense of perennial victimhood, low self esteem, anger, nihilism, etc. OTHO, the immigrants are vibrant, hopeful, and have very good self esteem.

If I was a black leader I would teach black Americans to emulate the immigrants.



So you admit POC discrimination in Western societies is not only systematic but also institutional. You assume that it is normal for whites to hold institutional power and that ethnic minorities are discriminated against.


Other than the police force (in many instances led by black people). Can you name the institutions that promote racism today in 2020? Please do not go to the past. Could you name which are the SYSTEMS that practice racism.
#15099651
Atlantis wrote:So you admit POC discrimination in Western societies is not only systematic but also institutional. You assume that it is normal for whites to hold institutional power and that ethnic minorities are discriminated against.


I never denied it existed.

Atlantis wrote:Now you got me completely confused. I never made such a claim and why should it be necessary for whites to hold power in Japan or Korea to prove racial discrimination?


Because the issue is not how they are treated compared to blacks or other Asians but how Koreans and Japanese treat whites in their societies compared to their fellow compatriots. The issue is how whites in Korea and Japan will be treated compared to Koreans and Japanese. You also seem to not have taken into account that not everyone in the Far East is well disposed towards whites.

Atlantis wrote:On the contrary, it is the fact that whites receive privileged treatment over blacks even in countries where whites don't hold institutional power that proves the universality of white privilege.


It says very little about the possibility of anti-white discrimination or the severity and incidence of said discrimination. Yes, whites in Asia receive preferential treatment over blacks but do they receive preferential treatment over local Asians?

Atlantis wrote:I cited your username in another thread where I linked the story about an NHK children's animation video in Japan which clearly shows a distorted caricature of blacks in the US. Any British or American black person who has been in Japan knows that they are treated very differently from their white compatriots. A black friend of mine loves everything Japanese, but when she went to Japan to study, she couldn't take the constant discrimination and left after a year. Even if you don't have to face violent discrimination, the constant trickle of discrimination just starts to grate on your nerves. She was born in Germany just like me, but as a white European I never had any problems even after 15 years in Japan.


You never having unpleasant incidents does not mean they do not occur.

Atlantis wrote:We have recently seen the crude racism leveled against black African students in China. I have noted that this is not an isolated phenomenon but goes back a long time in history. Even when I first started to study Chinese 40 odd years ago, there were stories about African students in China having a hard time. I remember reading the story of a Chinese student from a wealthy family who was among the first to be sent to the US to study in the 19th century. Being from a wealthy family, he was obviously very learned in traditional Chinese culture, yet when he got to the States he accepted that he was treated as an inferior by whites since Western countries had technological achievements even the most nationalistic-minded Chinese could not deny were superior to what the Chinese had at the time. So he looked up towards whites (just like some whites still get the VIP treatment in Japan even today), but what this proud Chinese nationalist could not stomach was that he was put on the same social level as blacks, Hispanics and other non-whites. He bitterly complained in his letters to his father that the whites didn't treat him any better than they treated blacks.


There are Chinese who do not like whites. Have you never heard the term Gui lo?

Atlantis wrote:With the colonial conquest, whites established their position as a sort of global ruling class, a bit like the Manchu conquerors of China established their position as the ruling class of the Qing dynasty. Even the least talented Manchu could still count on being promoted to some sort of position by virtue of his Manchu privilege.


This does seem to be the emerging consensus among the left today.

And I'm sure that the Han really loved the Manchu overlords and would have welcomed them with open arms.

Donna wrote:Did you mean to write "local POC"? Not sure how the paragraph would otherwise make sense.


Yes, sorry.

Donna wrote:At any rate, whites in South Africa still control most of the country's wealth and capital even though they are under-represented in police, media, courts, armed forces, etc.


That is soft power. They only have that because of apartheid. It is only a matter of time until blacks start to gain control of capital. It could happen very soon if Malema gets into power.
#15100474
Tainari88 wrote:@Deutschmania

You should look up the history of when Black people became property and any white person had the right to use violence with impunity to make that black person obey what they wanted them to obey. They did it to avoid coalitons of indentured servants, and other forms of white slaves and black slaves from uniting against the landed gentry in the 17th century before the USA became a republic.

Notice how the indentured white servants and the slaves did start to identify with each other's plights and rattled the ruling class.
I have heard of how the English ruling class in the American colonies feared the prospect of African slaves joining in common cause with white indentured servants . I mean could you imagine the potential outcome of a joint revolt , in light of these separate uprisings in New York , in the early 1700's ? https://www.britannica.com/event/New-York-slave-rebellion-of-1712 , http://threerivershms.com/knittlech8.htm I am especially interested in this area of history , as I am descended from Johann Conrad Weiser .
Julian658 wrote:The case for white fragility is very strong. A true white nordic person with pink skin and white hair is made of recessive genes. The other two racial groups: Asian and Black have dominant genes. Any mixing and the whiteness starts to fade away. Whites have a very low fertility rate. In the not so distant future you will only see white people in wax museums. It has been predicted that in 10,000 years the entire world will be olive skin.
This is not necessarily the case . Take for example the case of " Black Dutch" , such as myself . While I might get mistaken for being Hispanic , from time to time , in worse instances by police , whom wonder what I am doing in their "white bread " neck of the woods , for the most part anyway , I am still widely seen as being white . But I suppose that whiteness is a subjective social construct . And some today , who are especially nativist , might still concur with Benjamin Franklin , whom wrote this opinion .
Why should the Palatine boors [the Germans] be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and by herding together establish their language and manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a colony of aliens, who will soon be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our anglifying them, and will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion.

Which leads me to one remark: That the number of purely white people in the world is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawney. And in Europe the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes are generally of what we call a swarthy complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only being excepted, who with the English make up the principal body of white people on the face of the earth. I could wish their numbers increased. While we are scouring our planet by clearing America of woods, and so making our side of the planet reflect a brighter light to the inhabitants of Mars or Venus, why should we in the sight of superior beings darken its people? Why increase the sons of Africa by planting them in America, where we have an opportunity, by excluding all blacks and tawneys, of increasing the lovely white and red.”
#15100490
Deutschmania wrote: This is not necessarily the case . Take for example the case of " Black Dutch" , such as myself . While I might get mistaken for being Hispanic , from time to time , in worse instances by police , whom wonder what I am doing in their "white bread " neck of the woods , for the most part anyway , I am still widely seen as being white . But I suppose that whiteness is a subjective social construct . And some today , who are especially nativist , might still concur with Benjamin Franklin , whom wrote this opinion .


There is only one human race, so racism is totally illogical. If the left had more spine they would stop crying racism 24/7 and simply talk about discrimination due to ingroup group preference. However, they love victimhood! In the human race the differences are due to genes and white traits are often recessive. Mendel described this fairly well back them. In any event the term racism is incorrect as all humans belong to the same race. What is really sad is that the lefties do not realize that every time they complain about racism they are declaring they are somehow "less".

Nevertheless, there is a difference between an African and a Nordic in terms of phenotype.

Benjamin Franklin was big on in group preference and this was likely the norm in Europe in that era. Ben thought they were too swarthy. There are so called swarthy germans, but they have European facial features and quite often blue eyes. Meanwhile pink skin is more the norm in the UK.

How come the cyclists do not use helmets in the Netherlands? BTW, I love the fact that everybody speaks English so well over there.
#15100500
Julian658 wrote:There is only one human race, so racism is totally illogical. If the left had more spine they would stop crying racism 24/7 and simply talk about discrimination due to ingroup group preference. However, they love victimhood! In the human race the differences are due to genes and white traits are often recessive. Mendel described this fairly well back them. In any event the term racism is incorrect as all humans belong to the same race. What is really sad is that the lefties do not realize that every time they complain about racism they are declaring they are somehow "less".
When the racism stops, from people like you, then people can stop talking about it. You are quick to decry the existence of racism, and yet engage in it... often.

The term is correct, as it's discrimination and prejudice based on a stupid and unscientific idea of "race", that has been used historically by racists.
#15100540
Godstud wrote:When the racism stops, from people like you, then people can stop talking about it. You are quick to decry the existence of racism, and yet engage in it... often.

The term is correct, as it's discrimination and prejudice based on a stupid and unscientific idea of "race", that has been used historically by racists.

[sexist and personally insulting language removed - make an attempt to argue in good faith, and not just to troll. Prosthetic Conscience] Racism implies a difference between groups where one side is superior to the other. The minute you cry about racism you are accepting a submissive weak position. I would rather use a simple term such as discrimination based on ingroup preference. There cannot be racism among equals.
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