Should Mt. Rushmore be Demolished or Altered because it is on Native American land? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Should Mt. Rushmore be Demolished or Altered because it is on Native American land?

Yes
1
5%
No
16
84%
Alter it in some way (explain)
2
11%
#15105044
With surprising speed (at least to me) news sites like the New York Times, MSNBC and CNN have been running editorials or talking heads arguing that Trump was insensitive to give a patriotic speech before Mt. Rushmore on the 4th of July because it is on "native land", amid calls that the famous monuments be demolished etc. Apparently, two out of four of the people on the mountain were slave owners and they all possess views that are currently viewed as "problematic" by the progressive left.

What does PoFo think?
#15105048
All Native land should be nationalised. Having racially exclusive lands is a form of Apartheid. As for the statues, sure blow them up Taliban style and return the land to its natural beauty.
#15105050
Is this a joke? All of America is on native land :roll: Just dismantle the whole fucking country. Americans are nice enough people, if they ever need refuge I’m sure they will be welcomed with open arms. I’m so over this shit. Can we move on now :|
#15105056
ness31 wrote:All of America is on native land :roll:

And what about Britain, Belgium or France? Are the immigrants there not occupying Native Land by your logic? This is why I say anti WIG racism, that's anti White, anti Infidel, anti Gentile racism is so endemic, that people can no longer see it. When are the Mongolians going to knock down their monuments to Genghis? When are the Zulu going to knock down their monuments to Shaka? When are the Sunni Muslims going to stop making excuses for the wicked behaviour of the first four Caliphs? When are the Jews going to start condemning Joshua for stealing the land of the Canaanites in the first place?
#15105128
Donna wrote:The mountain should be handed over to the Oglala Sioux nation and they can decide what to do with it.


Maybe the Sioux should give the land back to the Crow and other tribes they took it from in the early 1800's?
#15105140
annatar1914 wrote:Maybe the Sioux should give the land back to the Crow and other tribes they took it from in the early 1800's?


I wouldn't be opposed to such a reconciliation process between the Crow and Sioux, but it's not really my place to say what the Sioux should do when they are currently the colonized nation in question who possess the land by treaty.
#15105142
Donna wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to such a reconciliation process between the Crow and Sioux, but it's not really my place to say what the Sioux should do when they are currently the colonized nation in question who possess the land by treaty.


Given that the Sioux are like most Amerindians in that they have some of the highest rates of enlistment in the US military compared to other groups in society, i'd say that they've already made reconciliation with the white man and US Government and accepted Mount Rushmore as a national monument for all Americans. But my main point is that for the greater part of human history, expulsion, conquest, and slavery have been near universal scourges, and almost all peoples have engaged in these things at one time or another. At some point forgiveness and reconciliation, and not dissention and strife, have to be carried out for the good of all.
#15105145
annatar1914 wrote:Given that the Sioux are like most Amerindians in that they have some of the highest rates of enlistment in the US military compared to other groups in society, i'd say that they've already made reconciliation with the white man and US Government and accepted Mount Rushmore as a national monument for all Americans.


The mountain and monument should still come into their possession. Perhaps they will preserve it. But they also might choose to dismantle it in order to develop greater solidarity with African-Americans.

But my main point is that for the greater part of human history, expulsion, conquest, and slavery have been near universal scourges, and almost all peoples have engaged in these things at one time or another. At some point forgiveness and reconciliation, and not dissention and strife, have to be carried out for the good of all.


I'm extremely wary about this talking point because white people use it all the time as an excuse to ignore their own obligations to decolonization and reconciliation. Yes, what the Sioux did to the Crow was unjust, but the Sioux does not have a reconciled relationship with the US project. This would need to be resolved before the Sioux and Crow can enter a real dialogue on the matter.
#15105147
Donna wrote:The mountain and monument should still come into their possession. Perhaps they will preserve it. But they also might choose to dismantle it in order to develop greater solidarity with African-Americans.


How would they be able to do so when the issue of Native American enslavement of Africans remains standing and largely ignored?
#15105154
ness31 wrote:Is this a joke? All of America is on native land :roll:


If natives occupied a very small % of the land in America pre-contact, how is it all "their land". Do you get to claim an entire continent as yours if you occupy and use only a very small % of it?

The New World didn't have horses pre-contact, horses came from Europe, so natives traveled by small boat/canoe along waterways or by foot. Pretty sure they never stepped foot on most of American land. But a lot of it they did use was stolen.
#15105155
wat0n wrote:How would they be able to do so when the issue of Native American enslavement of Africans remains standing and largely ignored?

Natives owned European slaves too, and of course slaves from other tribes.

People are dicks.
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