[late]

What I have done is a mistake in that I assumed more from you. Organizations like the CSIS are called ''think tanks'', where discussions among alleged ''experts'' are held by the public to hash out the proper means of dealing with international and other issues. They are most emphatically not. What they are, these organizations, are conveyor belts transmitting the will of the Elites to academia and other nodes of the intellectual world. CSIS and other organizations were created in the 20th century not to reflect the opinion of intelligent men, but to shape and mold that opinion.

Therefore, a Western institution like CSIS,( or the CFR, etc..).a child of the Jesuit order and Georgetown University, is going to always reflect the Western desire to divide Eurasian states further, subdue them, exploit and destroy them. Now, they will come up with all kinds of sophistical justifications to obscure the primary goals, but that's their job, and they're paid well for it.

So yes, I get it. What I don't get, or rather couldn't, was why you'd try to bring it up this paper from CSIS as some kind of wise declaration from on high. It isn't. All it does is reveal certain people for the fake ass establishment stooges that they are.

That's one way to admit you're out of your depth.

If you actually could do this, you would have counterarguments, not character attacks.

Russia, and it' trolls, need to own it. They screwed up early and often.

We are far from perfect, but this was a long time coming. Soviet mismanagement, massive corruption under Putin, and Putin's revanchist ambitions will be the ruin of Russia.

[annatar1914]

That's one way to admit you're out of your depth.

Are you trying to convince me of this, or yourself?

I'm trying to discern your exact reasoning for statements you've made that rationally make no sense. What is your position on this issue that can be defended or excused rationally? I'm talking giving me some logic, not emotions and non-sequiters that make no rational sense. Are you accusing me of something that I'm not aware of? Spit it out, man.

If you actually could do this, you would have counterarguments, not character attacks.

What character attacks are you talking about?

Russia, and it' trolls, need to own it. They screwed up early and often.

Again, what exactly are you talking about? This is not what's called 'having a rational conversation'.

We are far from perfect, but this was a long time coming. Soviet mismanagement, massive corruption under Putin, and Putin's revanchist ambitions will be the ruin of Russia.

So you don't know what you're talking about, after all. Do you know what decade you're talking about? What country or countries? You're sounding like a Liberal version of a ''Cold Warrior'' run out of excuses for hatred and paranoia...

[Politics_Observer]

@late

Yeah, you would think @annatar1914 is paid by Putin's government to be a Russian troll here on PoFo with the way he writes his post. Who knows, maybe he really is.

[annatar1914]

@late

Yeah, you would think @annatar1914 is paid by Putin's government to be a Russian troll here on PoFo with the way he writes his post. Who knows, maybe he really is.

@Politics_Observer

A person who cannot prove his point against another's counter-contention, slanders and dishonors that other person. I thought that you were intelligent and rational, I thought that even if we disagreed, you had honor, but you do not seems have honor because you continually hold my patriotism and my identity as an American citizen suspect because we disagree over politics and while I oppose Trump I oppose batshit crazy conspiracy theory and mass lunatic hysteria even more. What you have said is beneath contempt and is loathsome beyond words. You disagree with my opinion as is your right in the Western world, but you go well beyond it in your abject surrender to the forces of demonization and dehumanization of others. You have surrendered to irrationality and emotion and given up on common human feeling with those who disagree with you and/or your assertions.

I can no longer in good conscience write any more to you, because you have made decency impossible. I can forgive you, but I am publicly suggesting to you and to everyone else on all sides to take a good look in the mirror; is all this really what we want to leave to our posterity, such slander and personal destruction over... Politics?

You have been victimized by a racist, loathsome bitter hag of a defeated white liberal, who not dealing with her loss with some grace and class, chose to poison the world with this inane and irrational conspiracy theory of the Russians controlling President Trump and influencing the 2016 election his way. Despite the fact that the man is profoundly Anti-Russian in his foreign policy more than any other President before him and is using this very conspiracy theory against him as political camouflage and cover to stealthily cause problems for Russia even more.

But by all means double down on this irrational lunacy and destroy any meaningful, principled and competent opposition to the man and the GOP, you'll have them running everything in the country for a generation or more.

[Politics_Observer]

@annatar1914

Hey, I am just being honest and straight up with you. This isn't about politics at all when I say you are not being loyal to your country. It's just a fact. You are loyal to one man: Trump who openly encourages the Russians to interfere in our elections. You are also willfully blind to the fact that Russia is currently an enemy of the U.S. and Trump is helping the Russians to divide this country.

And since you like talking about honor, if YOU had REAL honor you would put your loyalty to the best interests of our country instead of in just one man, Trump. So yes I do question your loyalty and patriotism in our country and for very good reason. Just because you hold American citizenship doesn't make you a patriot or loyal to the US. I judge you by what you say and defend here on PoFo and what you say and defend here on PoFo demonstrates that you are not a loyal to this country. Your loyalty lies with Trump and Russia from what you have written. So, dont piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining.

You have forgotten who you are.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914

Hey, I am just being honest and straight up with you. This isn't about politics at all when I say you are not being loyal to your country. It's just a fact. You are loyal to one man: Trump who openly encourages the Russians to interfere in our elections. You are also willfully blind to the fact that Russia is currently an enemy of the U.S. and Trump is helping the Russians to divide this country.

And since you like talking about honor, if YOU had REAL honor you would put your loyalty to the best interests of our country instead of in just one man, Trump. So yes I do question your loyalty and patriotism in our country and for very good reason. Just because you hold American citizenship doesn't make you a patriot or loyal to the US. I judge you by what you say and defend here on PoFo and what you say and defend here on PoFo demonstrates that you are not a loyal to this country. Your loyalty lies with Trump and Russia from what you have written. So, dont piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining.

You have forgotten who you are.

You have a case of total and absolute Trump induced insanity. I am not a follower of Donald Trump. I oppose him politically. I also oppose insanity from his Liberal opponents who are trying seemingly to re-elect him at this stage with the single worst candidate for President since... Hillary Clinton in 2016. You are completely off your gourd if you can somehow square opposition to this lunatic hysteria and senseless conspiracy theory with being on his side. He's made you all absolutely barking mad. There's no talking to you; hopefully I pray you will see.

[Politics_Observer]

@annatar1914

Dude, I have seen you defend Trump here on this forum. Now you are trying to say you oppose him. If you oppose him, dont defend him when he is obviously wrong. You are sending inconsistent mixed messages.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914

Dude, I have seen you defend Trump here on this forum. Now you are trying to say you oppose him. If you oppose him, dont defend him when he is obviously is wrong. You are sending inconsistent mixed messages.

Have you totally lost your reason because of this guy? Are you one of those people who seem to think that because Adolf Hitler believed that ''2 + 2=4'', that that abolishes mathematics?

He is not an Agent of Russia; he hates Russia with everything in his being. I know this because his first wife Ivana affirmed in court that his favorite book on his nightstand by their bed was Hitler's ''Mein Kampf'' which talks a great deal about conquering Russia and exterminating or enslaving the Slavic peoples. Even if she's wrong about that (what does it say about her though, with a guy who has Mein Kampf instead of the Bible by their bed?) and in the midst of a bitter divorce with him, and even if two of his wives have been Slavic themselves, I find it hard to trust any man with such animosity as he's shown towards Russia, thinking about the possibility of her being right. I watch what people do, not so much what they say. Your conspiracy theory which a sick and racist loser of a presidential candidate came up with because she was gobsmacked from losing twice to other candidates (Obama in 2008, Trump in 2016), has utterly poisoned so many minds into abject irrationality, and is the perfect cover for his real policies.

My messages aren't ''mixed'', they're rational and born out by the known facts and logical inferences. If you can't handle nuances and complicated political events with multiple multitudes of people all with agendas and desires of their own, you're not going to really get much of anything going on in politics at all, I'm sorry to say.

I am a Socialist. Donald Trump says America will never be Socialist if he can help it. That's fine, that's his personal political stance. I can be objective about him because I understand not only him but most of his enemies too. I can disagree with you and with him or anybody else about this or many other issues without calling into question my love for my country. That frankly is not only foolish but quite despicable, and I have not done that to anyone here from America or any other country. You have wronged me and anyone else who may disagree with you honestly. It is the tactic of a bully oftentimes, and bullies are usually cowards who can't handle contradiction to them out of insecurity. I'm going to assume you're just passionate in your opinions, instead.

[late]

[usermention=41202]

@late[/usermention]

Yeah, you would think @annatar1914 is paid by Putin's government to be a Russian troll here on PoFo with the way he writes his post. Who knows, maybe he really is.

Don't know, don't care. But my impression is that Putin has higher standards than that.

He is so ineffective that, for most of us, he's harmless.

[annatar1914]

Don't know, don't care. But my impression is that Putin has higher standards than that.

He is so ineffective that, for most of us, he's harmless.

When you have nothing rational to reply to something, and resort to ignorant personal attacks, it is you that are a nullity in the larger political scheme of things. As it is, what are you saying ''we'' for; are you representative collectively of anything other than mass liberal delusions and hysteria?

Maybe it's too ''Late'' for you to tone down the rhetoric of dehumanization and demonization, the politics of personal invective and destruction, but you should try to. The road is otherwise only leading to malice and nihilism.

[ingliz]

socialist

@annatar1914 is a Nazbol (Best fit a 'fascist of the Strasserite persuasion').

[blackjack21]

You are loyal to one man: Trump who openly encourages the Russians to interfere in our elections.

That is frankly an absurd assertion. Trump quipped in 2016 that maybe the Russians could find the emails that Hillary Clinton deleted so that she could thwart a Congressional subpoena, because it had been alleged that her email server had been hacked by Russians. Repeating this absurdity makes you look stupid, and you're not stupid. At least have a little bit of self-respect when pushing your agenda.

You are also willfully blind to the fact that Russia is currently an enemy of the U.S. and Trump is helping the Russians to divide this country.

Legally, Russia is a permanent member of the UNSC. The formal name for the allies in World War Two, the United Nations, is also the name of its post war treaty. The United States has a formal ambassador to Russia and regular diplomatic relations. They are not currently an enemy of the United States as a matter of law. John J. Sullivan is the current ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary from the United States to Russia.

And since you like talking about honor, if YOU had REAL honor you would put your loyalty to the best interests of our country instead of in just one man, Trump.

Trump sets US foreign policy. He is the president of the United States. He determines what is in the best interests of the United States in foreign affairs. If you don't like his policies, you can vote against him in November.

I also oppose insanity from his Liberal opponents who are trying seemingly to re-elect him at this stage with the single worst candidate for President since... Hillary Clinton in 2016.

They do seem to have gone over the edge.

He's made you all absolutely barking mad.

See? This is why I like Donald Trump. My vote for him was simple--illegal immigration and trade. Why I like the guy is that he fights back, and they are so reflexively oppositional that they do not require any intellectual consistency for their positions. Biden's VP candidate, Kamala Harris, told an accused sex offender that she was proud of him, because of the riots started on his behalf. The madness doesn't start and stop with @late or @Politcal_Observer. It's right at the very top of the stack.

Your conspiracy theory which a sick and racist loser of a presidential candidate came up with because she was gobsmacked from losing twice to other candidates (Obama in 2008, Trump in 2016), has utterly poisoned so many minds into abject irrationality, and is the perfect cover for his real policies.

And this is why I say Donald Trump is a political earthquake for them. For Hillary Clinton, it's deeply personal. The country chose a black man with no executive experience over her. Then, they chose a white man with no prior political experience for the first time in US history over her.

My messages aren't ''mixed'', they're rational and born out by the known facts and logical inferences. If you can't handle nuances and complicated political events with multiple multitudes of people all with agendas and desires of their own, you're not going to really get much of anything going on in politics at all, I'm sorry to say.

Politics_Observer is young, and hopefully he will mature in time. That does take experience. There is no hope for someone like @late, but I think he's a dyed-in-the-wool activist. So while he makes little sense, that's not his objective.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914 is a Nazbol (Best fit a 'fascist of the Strasserite persuasion').

Uh, no. I've been real clear in my political opinions. I'm closest to the Mladorossi in thinking, and Strasserism is still racist, which I most emphatically am not. I am a Socialist, and I am a Monarchist, and somehow I manage to reconcile those poles.

[skinster]

Trump is not compromised by the Russians, that is something absolutely devoid of fact and indeed, totally insane...

Pretty much.

Russiagate is the greatest psyop in the U.S. of recent years. It's still going on too, despite no evidence to support it and the opposite being true as far as Trump's leadership worsening relations between Russia and the U.S.

I am a Socialist, and I am a Monarchist, and somehow I manage to reconcile those poles.

[annatar1914]

Pretty much.

Russiagate is the greatest psyop in the U.S. of recent years. It's still going on too, despite no evidence to support it and the opposite being true as far as Trump's leadership worsening relations between Russia and the U.S.

Agree with your post. As far as ''Monarchy'' goes, that situation only obtained under historical circumstances which are now impossible. That era is over. The only political system a person such as myself can now follow is a Republic that is Socialist. I know it's nuanced, but there it is.

[late]

I am a Socialist, and I am a Monarchist, and somehow I manage to reconcile those poles.

One of my college professors was a card carrying member of the Monarchy Party. He was an oddball, but brilliant.

I don't have a problem with social legislation, per se.

But I don't like the word because it's meaning is muddy.

So, if we're talking about a bureaucracy that owns all the property, I don't think that is tenable. What killed the USSR was that they got overwhelmed by changes. They simply couldn't keep up. Thousands of decisions get made every day by organisations adapting to changes big and small. You can't replace that constant adaptation with a central bureaucracy.

I also have trouble imagining a dictator, I mean king, not interfering and making things even worse.

If socialism just means a country like Denmark, that's a different kettle of fish. But I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean.

[late]

Pretty much.

Russiagate is the greatest psyop in the U.S. of recent years.

Several other countries have built shiny new cyberdefense programs to defend against Russian attacks.

And now they have an annual contest to see who is the best at it.

But keep at it, propaganda doesn't work if you don't keep lying.

[annatar1914]

One of my college professors was a card carrying member of the Monarchy Party. He was an oddball, but brilliant.

I don't have a problem with social legislation, per se.

But I don't like the word because it's meaning is muddy.

So, if we're talking about a bureaucracy that owns all the property, I don't think that is tenable. What killed the USSR was that they got overwhelmed by changes. They simply couldn't keep up. Thousands of decisions get made every day by organisations adapting to changes big and small. You can't replace that constant adaptation with a central bureaucracy.

I also have trouble imagining a dictator, I mean king, not interfering and making things even worse.

If socialism just means a country like Denmark, that's a different kettle of fish. But I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean.

I'll reply to you in the manner that I did about this issue with @skinster . I do not believe that it is possible in this day and age to have a genuine functioning Monarchy, although I believe that it was in the past. I therefore believe in Socialism and in a Republic in these times as the best response to Modernity. No government is perfect, being full of us imperfect people, so I do not expect utopia even as so many Socialists are utopian romantic types.

[late]

I therefore believe in Socialism and in a Republic in these times as the best response to Modernity

Which still leaves the question open as to what you mean by socialism...

Can you own property, are there elections, Rule of Law guaranteeing a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of your dreams?

[annatar1914]

@late , you asked;

Which still leaves the question open as to what you mean by socialism...

By ''Socialism'', I mean Socialism, the public ownership of the principal means of economic production in a society, held in trust and administered by elected officials in a ''Soviet'' or ''Council Democracy'' system of government. In the US, this would be via the constitutional forms we already have.

Can you own property

I make a distinction between personal property and private property. In my personal take on Socialism there would be little to no private property, which is property that can be a means of economic production for a Individual like land, livestock, or a factory.

, are there elections, Rule of Law guaranteeing a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of your dreams?

There would be elections down to rather small levels of society up to the highest offices, local/city, state and federal, and delegates would be legally bound as an imperative to follow the will of those who voted them in or be subject to a recall removal and election. Otherwise the system is the same as today. I also believe in the principles of democratic centralism which defeats factionalism and indeed seems more ''Authoritarian'' than some would prefer. Political parties are not in our American foundational political documents.

The Bill of Rights in the United States would be the foundational set of principles in the Socialist America, also the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence, because the Socialist America would be built on those principles as a natural and organic development following logically from them.

As far as pursuit of one's dreams in life, the liberty from utilities and rent, high taxes and fees, the public health care and free education and learning of trades, retirements and pensions, guaranteed employment of some kind, coupled with an obligation to work for the common good of society for all those who can do so, following one's dreams might be easier for many. Unless one's dream is to have vast personal wealth and power, or an anti-social dream of freedom with minimal obligations or duties to others that is.

So yes, I speak honestly because I come from a ideological ground that President Trump is absolutely opposed to with everything in him, he is the penultimate Capitalist and believes in a Minarchist type of government (where I on the other hand am more Statist than he) and that's his right. I'm not opposed to genuine democracy and the rule of law, and the Socialism that I wish to come about if it ever does, must come democratically and as I said, a natural and organic development.

Of my opposition to Liberalism then, it is also Ideological, principled and moral and not opportunistic, and explains how I can be honest about opposing many things Liberals say and do without really being on the binary choice options of ''Trump vs. Biden'' and so forth.