[Pants-of-dog]

It's well known that China supports Venezuela (particularly economically). Are you trying to claim Venezuela is not a dictatorship?

Still waiting for that evidence.

Weird, I would believe you'd prefer not to appear to be applying double standards when it comes to human rights. After all, you have no qualms in warning other users that they appear to be racist.

Irrelevant, moving on.

I just showed that your claim can easily apply to China. Or pretty much any other country, since we live in a global world.

No, please address my actual claim.

It seems to be among the leading theories among scientists. Don't you trust science? Or you do only when it suits you?

Again, please present the evidence.

Note that none of this contradicts my actual argument: that the USA presents a larger threat for Latin Americans, and now I think I would even take it a step farther and apply this to MENA countries too.

[wat0n]

Still waiting for that evidence.

Of Chinese support for Venezuela or that Venezuela is a dictatorship? There is plenty of support for both.

For the former, it's as easy as looking at the relations between both countries. For the latter, Venezuela's constituent assembly that has yet to produce a Constitution is plenipotentiary and above all the other branches of government - the lack of separation of powers makes Venezuela a formal dictatorship.

Irrelevant, moving on.

Well, you do appear to have double standards when it comes to human rights. It's almost as if you didn't mind murder, disappearances and torture if the perpetrators are socialist governments and the victims are not leftist.

No, please address my actual claim.

Already did.

Again, please present the evidence.

I'll trust epidemiologists here, even if the theory hasn't been proven yet (and it may be the case that new evidence emerges) it remains a leading one. Don't you trust them?

Note that none of this contradicts my actual argument: that the USA presents a larger threat for Latin Americans, and now I think I would even take it a step farther and apply this to MENA countries too.

Really? I'd say that you have yet to respond to the fact that China supports Venezuela and other dictatorships in Latin America. The US currently doesn't. If the US is a threat for supporting dictatorships in the past, then China is a greater one because it supports dictatorships now.

It follows from your own reasoning here.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

Please present evidence for your claims.

Accusing me of stuff is not an argument, and the fact that I often ignore irrelevant questions is also not an argument.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

Please present evidence for your claims.

Accusing me of stuff is not an argument, and the fact that I often ignore irrelevant questions is also not an argument.

You are free to deny, deflect and distort but that doesn't change the fact that I'm correct and a simple cursory search should show so on both counts. It's as simple as to search about China-Venezuela relations to learn about the former, watch what Maduro himself and others say about the latter:

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

Can you please specify what argument this video supports, the time when whatever your support appears in the video, and how this event supports your claim?

Thanks.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

Can you please specify what argument this video supports, the time when whatever your support appears in the video, and how this event supports your claim?

Thanks.

Maduro recognizes that the constituent assembly is above all branches of government. A lack of separation of powers is one of the key characteristics of a dictatorship, hence, Venezuela is formally one - and it's also dictatorial in practice. I think the video with this fragment of his speech, from TeleSur (owned by the Venezuelan government itself) is worth watching in full.

[Pants-of-dog]

Maduro recognizes that the constituent assembly is above all branches of government. A lack of separation of powers is one of the key characteristics of a dictatorship, hence, Venezuela is formally one - and it's also dictatorial in practice. I think the video with this fragment of his speech, from TeleSur (owned by the Venezuelan government itself) is worth watching in full.

Considering the fact that Trump also ignored separation of powers, and the USA is more powerful, the US is a greater threat than Venezuela by this metric.

[wat0n]

Considering the fact that Trump also ignored separation of powers, and the USA is more powerful, the US is a greater threat than Venezuela by this metric.

Trump did not have plenipotentiary powers and no one recognized them, despite his wishes. The constituent assembly, however, does have them and both Venezuelan executive and judicial branches recognize the laws it passes as such, and also submits to its directives (including if or when it wants to encroach on their functions).

You can do better than this.

[Pants-of-dog]

Trump did not have plenipotentiary powers and no one recognized them, despite his wishes.

Trump granted himself the power to ignore congressional oversight, and the ruling government did nt hold him accountable.

From a practical perspective, this is the same as actual recognition of said powers: he can use these powers and no one is stopping him.

The constituent assembly, however, does have them and both Venezuelan executive and judicial branches recognize the laws it passes as such, and also submits to its directives (including if or when it wants to encroach on their functions).

You can do better than this.

This distinction is purely theoretical, so it is not a strong argument that Venezuela is more of a threat than the US is when it comes to almost all of us.

[wat0n]

Trump granted himself the power to ignore congressional oversight, and the ruling government did nt hold him accountable.

From a practical perspective, this is the same as actual recognition of said powers: he can use these powers and no one is stopping him.

What exactly are you talking about? Whatever conflicts Congress and Trump might have had, and they had plenty, would at worst be solved by the SCOTUS. I recall the latter completely ignored Trump when he tried to contest the election result, thereby showing Trump did not effectively have plenipotentiary powers.

This distinction is purely theoretical, so it is not a strong argument that Venezuela is more of a threat than the US is when it comes to almost all of us.

We're comparing China and the US, not Venezuela (possibly a China wannabee now that Cuba didn't work out so well, given the latest privatizations) and the US. Trying to deflect again?

[Godstud]

China has affected peoples personal way of life all across the planet with their test release of the China virus.

That is a looney-tunes claim. Engaging in ridiculous conspiracy theory isn't an argument for anything, except that you not be taken seriously.

[Pants-of-dog]

What exactly are you talking about? Whatever conflicts Congress and Trump might have had, and they had plenty, would at worst be solved by the SCOTUS. I recall the latter completely ignored Trump when he tried to contest the election result, thereby showing Trump did not effectively have plenipotentiary powers.

We're comparing China and the US, not Venezuela (possibly a China wannabee now that Cuba didn't work out so well, given the latest privatizations) and the US. Trying to deflect again?

Since you did not provide any evidence whatsoever of the Chinese government impacting the lives of Latin Americans, your Venezuela argument is stronger than your China argument.

[wat0n]

Since you did not provide any evidence whatsoever of the Chinese government impacting the lives of Latin Americans, your Venezuela argument is stronger than your China argument.

You have yet to provide evidence of the American government impacting the lives of Latin Americans under this reasoning, then. And it must be current.

[Pants-of-dog]

You have yet to provide evidence of the American government impacting the lives of Latin Americans under this reasoning, then. And it must be current.

I apologize for being informal, but this is a cop out.

We already know of the many instances of US forces enacting human rights abuses in Latin America, as well as the many instances of Latin American forces supported by the US enacting human rights abuses.

And there has been no significant change in US politics since these abuses. So the abuses from five or ten years ago are still valid. As are the ones from a mere few decades ago as well.

Even if we assume a worst case scenario with China and leftist countries in Latin America, the US still wins that particular contest.

[wat0n]

I apologize for being informal, but this is a cop out.

We already know of the many instances of US forces enacting human rights abuses in Latin America, as well as the many instances of Latin American forces supported by the US enacting human rights abuses.

And there has been no significant change in US politics since these abuses. So the abuses from five or ten years ago are still valid. As are the ones from a mere few decades ago as well.

Even if we assume a worst case scenario with China and leftist countries in Latin America, the US still wins that particular contest.

Nonsense. To restate, those dictatorships ended 30+ years ago and the US hasn't directly intervened militarily in the region since 1996 (to help catch Pablo Escobar, not in an area with civilians in it. If you limit American interventions to those, then we have to go back to 1989 when they toppled the formerly US-backed military dictator Noriega). China on the other hand supports dictatorships that, as human rights organizations and exiles claim, carry out human rights violations on a regular basis in the current year, 2021. Under your standards, China is a current threat to Latin America, unless you prefer to disbelieve exiles and human rights organizations when it suits you.

[Patrickov]

They are not. If the HK wants freedom? You need to put your big boys' and girls' pants on and confront your own ethnic group from the mainland and not wait for the UK and the Anglos to solve your problems for you.

This statement of you clearly indicates that you have not even tried to know what's happening in HK for the past 2 years.

We have did exactly "put your big boys' and girls' pants on and confront your own ethnic group from the mainland" in 2019, and then China's response? Imposing the National Security Law and effectively closing off competitive elections, i.e. THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!!

Maybe you think we should follow the examples of Myanmar and have ourselves shot dead on the street. If it is so, I actually AGREE and have such urge myself, but we all know that China can just pour off some of their elites to replace us and pretend nothing has happened.

Next time research before you suggest others to do something they already had!

[Pants-of-dog]

Nonsense. To restate, those dictatorships ended 30+ years ago

Yes, but the US government that put them in place is still around and has not changed its MO at all.

and the US hasn't directly intervened militarily in the region since 1996 (to help catch Pablo Escobar, not in an area with civilians in it.

No. This is presumably based off declassified documents. We cannot know right now if the US is still involved because of “national security”. At this point, it is logical to presume that the US is still involved in covert operations against democratically elected governments for the purpose of enriching US companies.

So, this is, at best, an argument from ignorance.

And it ignores other interventions since Noriega, like US support of Colombian death squads.

If you limit American interventions to those, then we have to go back to 1989 when they toppled the formerly US-backed military dictator Noriega). China on the other hand supports dictatorships that, as human rights organizations and exiles claim, carry out human rights violations on a regular basis in the current year, 2021. Under your standards, China is a current threat to Latin America, unless you prefer to disbelieve exiles and human rights organizations when it suits you.

Feel free to provide any evidence at all that China has been involved in Latin America.

I think this is the sixth or seventh time I ask for this evidence.

[Patrickov]

Yes, but the US government that put them in place is still around and has not changed its MO at all.

If it had not changed its MO the dictatorships in concern would not have gone in the first place.

[Pants-of-dog]

If it had not changed its MO the dictatorships in concern would not have gone in the first place.

Not really.

You assume that Latin Americans are incapable of opposing US power successfully. This is incorrect.

[Patrickov]

You assume that Latin Americans are incapable of opposing US power successfully.

I had no such assumption, but cooperation from them is still an indication that your description of the said MO is little more than your anti-US fantasy.