[Doug64]

I decided @Goranhammer has a point, the old poll thread was a little old--people that voted before may have had their own opinions shift over the last decade, and terms and descriptions have changed a little. So, here's a new, fresh poll. You can take the ten-question poll here: The World's Smallest Political Quiz. The results are:

Libertarian
Libertarians seek to maximize human freedom and eliminate coercion in personal or economic matters. They advocate “self-government,” that is, people who govern themselves. Government, to the extent it exists at all, should be limited to protecting individuals from harm. Otherwise, libertarians embrace individual responsibility, voluntary community and private charity. They also tolerate diverse lifestyles, defend civil liberties, and support the free exchange of goods, services and ideas.

Famous libertarians include economist and philosopher Friedrich Hayek, journalist Rose Wilder Lane, and entertainer Penn Jillette.

“The number one responsibility for each of us is to change ourselves, with hope that others will follow.” — Ron Paul, Congressional Farewell Speech

Moderate
Moderates tend to prefer a “middle ground” regarding the use of coercion and government control, whether of the economy or of personal behavior. Depending on the issue, moderates think government intervention is warranted based on pragmatic considerations. Moderates pride themselves on keeping an open mind and oppose what they consider to be political extremes. Instead, they emphasize what they regard as practical government solutions to social problems.

Famous moderates include former President Bill Clinton, Senator Susan Collins, and actor Matthew McConaughey.

“Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars, but remember to keep your feet on the ground.” — Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States

Conservative
Conservatives tend to favor economic freedom, but frequently support laws to restrict personal behavior that violates “traditional values.” They generally oppose government control of business, but advocate for government action that defends their ideas of morality and the traditional family structure. Conservatives support a strong military, but otherwise oppose bureaucracy and high taxes. They otherwise believe firm law enforcement is necessary to maintain social order.

Famous conservatives include former Vice President Mike Pence, South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, and actress Candace Cameron Bure.

“I am a conservative in large part because I believe that politics should intrude on life as little as possible. Conservatives surely believe that there are times when the government should meddle in the daily affairs of the people, but they normally reserve those times for large questions of right and wrong, good and evil.” — Columnist Jonah Goldberg

Progressive
Progressives usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but advocate for significant government coercion to control the economy and redistribute wealth. Progressives tolerate alternative lifestyles and generally favor a government-funded “safety net” to help the disadvantaged, or to reduce wealth inequality. Most advocate rigid regulation of business as well as strict environmental regulations. Progressives support government action to promote equal opportunity, but can be divided on questions of free expression, particularly when expression is thought to traumatize victims of past injustice.

Famous progressives include Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Senator Bernie Sanders, and filmmaker Michael Moore.

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.” — Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States

Authoritarian
Authoritarians want the government to have a great deal of power over the economy and individual behavior. They are willing to use coercion to realize their ideals–and advocate for a strong military and police powers to do the job. Authoritarians doubt whether economic liberty and individual freedom are practical options in today’s world. They tend to distrust open markets, seek centralized planning of the economy, and rarely tolerate diverse ways of living. Civil liberties often stand in the way of social order and/or equal outcomes. Conformity unites.

Famous authoritarians include Kim Jong-un, Augusto Che Guevara, and Joseph Stalin.

“It is the State which educates its citizens in civic virtue, gives them a consciousness of their mission and welds them into unity.” — Benito Mussolini, founder of the National Fascist Party and Prime Minister of Italy, 1922 – 1943

Over the past decade I've gone from Libertarian: Personal 80 / Economic 90 to Libertarian: Personal 70 / Economic 70, just barely above the Moderate line.

[Cartertonian]

(According to the Quiz...) I'm a progressive.



As was noted periodically throughout the previous thread, it's an inevitable side effect of such an over-simplified metric that its results are no less over-simplified.

Scope for misrepresentation is compounded by the international nature of this board, where 'definitions of terms' will vary from country to country, but using the terms defined by the Quiz (and, let's remember, it's a website run by advocates of self-government) I would place myself more as a moderate.

So for example, the Quiz says:

"Libertarians seek to maximize human freedom and eliminate coercion in personal or economic matters. "
Well, I'd like to see that, too. But since we don't all live in self-contained bubbles where all of our actions affect no-one but ourselves, we have to be pragmatic.

"Moderates pride themselves on keeping an open mind and oppose what they consider to be political extremes. "
Yep. That's definitely me.

I can find little in the Conservative descriptor with which I agree (save for the strong military), but I do at least agree with the comment from Jonah Goldberg, "I am a conservative in large part because I believe that politics should intrude on life as little as possible. Conservatives surely believe that there are times when the government should meddle in the daily affairs of the people, but they normally reserve those times for large questions of right and wrong, good and evil." Where I would probably differ would be in the definitions of right and wrong. If the 'conservatives' over at PoFoUK where I do most of moderation are anything to go by, 'conservatives' would define a lot of hard won freedoms, civil and human rights as 'wrong' and seek to reverse them if they had their way.

Moving on...

"Progressives usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but advocate for significant government coercion to control the economy and redistribute wealth." Again, a lot comes down to definitions - in this case in relation to the word 'coercion'. Given that the Quiz has been written by Libertarians I expect their definition is rather different from mine. Furthermore, I don't think the government should be exercising 'significant' control over the economy, coercively or otherwise, but I do think that the economy should not be left entirely uncontrolled. It's rather like a wild dog, that might let you pet it if you smell right but could just as easily rip your throat out. Sir Francis Bacon noted that, 'money is a good servant, but a poor master'. I don't want to see the economy kept on a short leash...but I would be happier if it were properly house-trained and domesticated.

As for Authoritarians...if there's anything that defines me it's anti-authoritarian, but I can't lend my support unreservedly to Libertarians because their philosophy is almost as bad. To me, the relationship between Authoritarian and Libertarian is akin to killing people wilfully and deliberately and killing people through neglect and indifference.

Probably around the time the first thread began, my sig image featured the legend, 'Militant Centrist' and despite this Quiz and it's dubious conclusion, I think that's where I have remained.

[late]

There are no libertarians in an empire.

It's a contradiction in terms, which results in an ridiculous hypocrisy.

[Goranhammer]

I'm none of the above anymore. For the longest, I was a libertarian. I thought that people should have more self-governing power. Then in the last dozen years or so, I've seen that Americans, as a whole, are way too stupid to be given such a responsibility.

Then I thought about being a statist - and then I realize that would align me with the Democrat party today, which I could not do.

I personally think the ideal system would be something akin to Plato's concept of philosopher-kings.

[Doug64]

@Cartertonian, according to the poll I'm a Libertarian (if barely), and so I was when I was in college, hard-core (though always pro-life, babies have rights too), and when I first started posting here I still considered myself a pragmatic Libertarian. But these days I consider myself more a Conservative--I was mugged by reality, you see.

I personally think the ideal system would be something akin to Plato's concept of philosopher-kings.

If I recall, in The Republic, Plato had Socrates wonder if he--an independent philosopher--would be able to exist in the system he'd described. And while an absolute monarchy can work well with the right person in charge, determining who that "right person" is and whether they continue to be the "right person" is problematic at best.

[Pants-of-dog]

All the options exist within liberal capitalism. There are no options outside of it. It also seems to reflect a US paradigm to political diversity.

[Doug64]

@Pants-of-dog, yes, this poll is centered by US politics. I would imagine that European Moderates would be shifted more in the Liberal/Authoritarian direction.

[Cartertonian]

There are no libertarians in an empire.

It's a contradiction in terms, which results in an ridiculous hypocrisy.

I fail to understand how one can be a libertarian in any community. Even within families, there are regularly situations where you have to compromise or deny your wants and needs for the wants and needs of someone else. The notion of maximising human freedom is attractive, but it can only ever be approached pragmatically.

when I first started posting here I still considered myself a pragmatic Libertarian. But these days I consider myself more a Conservative--I was mugged by reality, you see.

Quick! Roll out the (misattributed) Churchill quote!

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

Apparently Churchill never said it. Two points are worth making about it, though:

Conservatives seek to conserve...they are generally resistant to change. Commonly, though not universally, as we get older most people naturally become less and less tolerant of change and wish time could somehow stand still, or at least slow down a bit.

As a mental health specialist, I'm only too aware of the dichotomy between, 'the head and the heart'. Our instincts and emotions come from our primitive, core brain area (limbic system) and are unchanged since pre-history. Our logic and reasoning come from our higher, sentient brain (mostly pre-frontal cortex) that has only been part of our neuro-anatomy for a few hundred thousand years. Most mental health problems stem from the conflict between the two parts of the brain (see Dr Steve Peters' 'The Chimp Paradox', for example). The 'problem' with the quote - and it's a wider problem for all of humanity - is that so many people think in binary, either/or terms, when in fact what's needed is balance between the two. Personally, I think that balance point is still a long way off in human evolution and currently the majority of people are probably still subordinating their higher brain functions to their instincts and emotions, to use their intellect to satiate their primitive desires and instincts and a majority of that majority aren't even aware they are doing it.

Without specifics which might derail the thread, our primitive instinct for tribal behaviour contributes to a host of conflict, dispute and division in many aspects of human life, but there are highly intelligent people who use (subordinate) their higher intelligence to further their tribalist instincts and justify inhumanity to others, believing such actions are logical and reasonable.

All the options exist within liberal capitalism. There are no options outside of it. It also seems to reflect a US paradigm to political diversity.

As Doug acknowledged and I referenced, the Quiz is very US-centric. That's probably why my result doesn't sit comfortably with me. Many of my instincts are 'progressive', but pragmatically so, insofar as 'time waits for no man' and therefore trying to stop the clock or, worse still, run it backwards seems as misguided as it is impossible.

Ultimately no option anywhere in human history has yet found a way to enable every individual human to achieve their personal potential. Every scheme, notion, ideology or philosophy ever dreamed up is immediately constrained by its own structure and requires a degree (varying between ideologies) of enforcement and imposition in order to work. Anyone who objects or opposes it is forcibly subordinated (or in some cases eliminated).

Echoing my earlier reference to human evolution, I don't think we're yet anywhere near the point at which human co-existence and organisation can function effectively and still enable everyone to achieve their personal potential without that achievement coming at a cost to others.

[Doug64]

@Cartertonian, another quote that I think epitomizes Conservatism, and it was actually written! To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton (the actual quote is rather more wordy), never tear down a fence until you know the reason it was put up. Also, it is quite possible to be a Libertarian in a community. Libertarians don't deny the existence of communities, they only feel that those communities should be voluntary in nature.

[Heisenberg]

I might be missing something really basic, but I can't see this quiz anywhere on the site. I click "take the quiz" and then... nothing happens. Any suggestions, @Doug64?

Anyway, I assume I'd come out as a "progressive" based on what I remember of this test. I haven't voted in the poll though, since I haven't actually taken it yet...

[Doug64]

@Heisenberg, if I click "take the quiz" it takes me right in. Maybe it's your internet browser?

[Deutschmania]

I might be missing something really basic, but I can't see this quiz anywhere on the site. I click "take the quiz" and then... nothing happens. Any suggestions, @Doug64?

Anyway, I assume I'd come out as a "progressive" based on what I remember of this test. I haven't voted in the poll though, since I haven't actually taken it yet...

When I tried to access the quiz , using a tablet , the questions didn't show up . But just now , using a desktop , I was able to take it . Incidentally , I got this as my result .

Personal Issues Score :60 Economic Issues Score :0

Which according to the test , supposedly means that I am a progressive . Is this accurate ? Well , as I am an ideological Communist , one might be inclined to expect me to get the result of authoritarian . But apparently , especially given how the questions are worded , it will tend to manipulate people into picking more socially libertarian answers . This has been the criticism leveled at it . https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nolan_chart#Fun_with_the_World.27s_Smallest_Political_Quiz

[B0ycey]

Seems I am Progressive although I think the quiz was a bit too small. Some of the things I strongly agreed with, I would still have restrictions in place on them so they would have a moderate affect or couldn't be exploited. So from the written text I class myself as a Moderate actually.

[Cartertonian]

...another quote that I think epitomizes Conservatism, and it was actually written! To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton (the actual quote is rather more wordy), never tear down a fence until you know the reason it was put up.

That seems like a variant of the timeless adage, 'look before you leap' which represents the sort of pragmatism I respect. What I found curious though, given that I already understood this about conservatism, was the fact that in our referendum the majority of leave voters were conservative or right-leaning and yet it seemed to me that they were lining up with fanatical enthusiasm to leap before they had looked. During the referendum campaign it seemed no-one on the leave side could clearly identify what a post-Brexit Britain would look like and many admitted (at least on PoFoUK) that they didn't care...because all that mattered was getting out of the EU. So to me then and still now, it seemed an exceedingly antithetical thing for 'conservatives' to want to do and far from pragmatic. It was a leap into the unknown, which seems more progressive than conservative.

Also, it is quite possible to be a Libertarian in a community. Libertarians don't deny the existence of communities, they only feel that those communities should be voluntary in nature.

I get that too. There is no shortage of pragmatists within the libertarian movement. But there's also no shortage of idealists who will refuse to compromise under any circumstances. My understanding of the NAP is that it's interpreted by pragmatists as meaning that in exercising one's own liberty, one ought not to infringe on the liberty of another. That is consistent with community existence. But there seem to me to be a sizeable cohort of idealists who believe that their liberty is sovereign and paramount and that if someone else is adversely affected, then that's tough luck. The recent pandemic situation presents a live example. There are clearly those in the US and even here in the UK who see the restrictions imposed as being entirely unacceptable and simply don't care if their 'principled' rejection of those restrictions results in the illness or death of others. That brand of libertarianism is incompatible with community and society.

...especially given how the questions are worded , it will tend to manipulate people into picking more socially libertarian answers

As I noted in my first post, the website itself is a libertarian website, so there's no suprise that the quiz is weighted toward libertarian principles.

[B0ycey]

... post-Brexit Britain would look like and many admitted (at least on PoFoUK) that they didn't care...because all that mattered was getting out of the EU.

Were users Deppity Dawg, Thomas, Borcester, Cromwell and a PoD clone Pappasmurf ever part of PoFoUK? I only ask because I enjoy their posts and they are British. If you don't know what I am talking about then just ignore.

[Cartertonian]

Were users Deppity Dawg, Thomas, Borcester, Cromwell and a PoD clone Pappasmurf ever part of PoFoUK? I only ask because I enjoy their posts and they are British. If you don't know what I am talking about then just ignore.

Cromwell used to post. The others, of course, may choose to use different usernames.

[B0ycey]

Cromwell used to post. The others, of course, may choose to use different usernames.

Perhaps. I just remember them telling me once they left their last forum because of the administration and a user called JohnofGwent created a new forum and knew you were from PoFoUK. They never told me which forum they left and I never asked. They just happen to be some interesting posters from the UK.

[Skynet]

I want to become a capitalist. I am here to talk like in a bar, just on a higher level.

Often I used to be high, but I am clean now, and I should work more then hang around here.

[Dimetrodon]

I'm on the border between Progressive and Authoritarian apparently. I do not identify as a Progressive, as many of my values conflict with Progressivism. I think I'm a moderate Authoritarian.