[Potemkin]

The hyperbole is strong with you. Wearing a mask is akin to wearing a seatbelt, only it doesn't just protect you. I suppose you demonstrated when restaurants put up signs that said, "No Shit. No shoes. No service.", right?

Enslaved? Killed? Where are you getting these lies from? Is Alex Jones your spirit animal?

@Rich actually has a point here. What he's complaining about is the level of top-down control which modernity has made possible in developed societies. Making everyone wear a seatbelt or wear a mask may seem trivial compared to the atrocities of the pre-modern era, but guys like Henry VIII or Ivan the Terrible could only dream of having the kind of detailed control of their subjects' lives which modern governments now take for granted. As @Rich pointed out, this is unprecedented in human history.

[XogGyux]

@XogGyux
What if they're unconscious or not lucid? Do you just treat them as a "Jane Doe"?
Why don't insurance companies coordinate information?

Yes.
There is no money on that.
eMAR software is expensive and copyrighted, companies don't have an incentive to make records easily transferable between platforms, there is simply no system for it. Like I said, the current way we do it is archaic and worthy of a sitcom joke. FAX? Are you kidding me?
As far as I am concerned, the goverment should have mandated compulsory compliance with inter-platform electronic record sharing. This is only half the issue, the other issue is the "consent/HIPAA" which could delay the acquisition of those records, specially when patient is demented, confused, altered (happens quite often) and this could delay care and/or make it so we repeat many tests unecessarily. I think once you are a healthcare worker that officially take responsability of a patient you should have implied consent for this. For instance, if you come to my hospital and you had prior visits... I have access to your prior records, I don't ask for your permision to obtain them and/or to see them... However, if it was a different hospital for some reason I do have to ask for your permision to request them... It does not make sense to me why.

[Patrickov]

What he's complaining about is the level of top-down control which modernity has made possible in developed societies. Making everyone wear a seatbelt or wear a mask may seem trivial compared to the atrocities of the pre-modern era, but guys like Henry VIII or Ivan the Terrible could only dream of having the kind of detailed control of their subjects' lives which modern governments now take for granted.

Both seatbelting and masking have concrete proof that shit happens if they are not followed. Josh Nash and his wife were killed because they did not wear a seatbelt, for Heaven's sake.

[XogGyux]

@Rich actually has a point here. What he's complaining about is the level of top-down control which modernity has made possible in developed societies. Making everyone wear a seatbelt or wear a mask may seem trivial compared to the atrocities of the pre-modern era, but guys like Henry VIII or Ivan the Terrible could only dream of having the kind of detailed control of their subjects' lives which modern governments now take for granted. As @Rich pointed out, this is unprecedented in human history.

Why stop at seatbelts, lets stop imposing all laws, let cars and boats and planes use the roads in whichever direction they want. Traffic lights? pfff... you are wanting to impose this rule of "stoping"? FUck that, we have a 5th amendment you know?

These are all minuscule sacrifices for the safety of society as a whole. If you are not willing to use the seatbelt, why would society have to pay the price when you fly out of your windshield, hit the pole, break your neck and your neurosurgeon charges you 5million dollars that you cannot obviously pay, therefore hospitals, insurance, goverment (people) end up taking the blow. Same shit with vaccines. Declining to take a vaccine that in most cases it is provided free of charge, that has a remarkable safety profile and in turn can protect society? save billions of dollars in healthcare costs? save people's lifes? I would venture to guess that more people have had side effects to eating chipotle than to a covid vaccine...

[Potemkin]

Why stop at seatbelts, lets stop imposing all laws, let cars and boats and planes use the roads in whichever direction they want. Traffic lights? pfff... you are wanting to impose this rule of "stoping"? FUck that, we have a 5th amendment you know?

These are all minuscule sacrifices for the safety of society as a whole. If you are not willing to use the seatbelt, why would society have to pay the price when you fly out of your windshield, hit the pole, break your neck and your neurosurgeon charges you 5million dollars that you cannot obviously pay, therefore hospitals, insurance, goverment (people) end up taking the blow. Same shit with vaccines. Declining to take a vaccine that in most cases it is provided free of charge, that has a remarkable safety profile and in turn can protect society? save billions of dollars in healthcare costs? save people's lifes? I would venture to guess that more people have had side effects to eating chipotle than to a covid vaccine...

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, @XogGyux. I am merely pointing out that, under modernity, governments are much better able to micromanage their citizens' lives than they ever have been before. This inevitably involves a loss of individual autonomy. In my opinion, this trade-off is worth it. But others have the right to believe that it's not worth it.

[AFAIK]

Do you ever hang out with anarchists @Potemkin? I remember David Graeber saying one of the things he enjoyed most about Occupy was the incredible level of freedom available in Zuccoti park.

[Potemkin]

Do you ever hang out with anarchists @Potemkin?

Not really, no, though I was very interested in Anarchism as a teenager, until reality mugged me. Lol.

I remember David Graeber saying one of the things he enjoyed most about Occupy was the incredible level of freedom available in Zuccoti park.

One thing I admire about Anarchists is that they never give up the dream. Even when they probably should....

[wat0n]

Not really, no, though I was very interested in Anarchism as a teenager, until reality mugged me. Lol.


One thing I admire about Anarchists is that they never give up the dream. Even when they probably should....

The same could be said about Marxists, Pote. The same could be said about Marxists.

But yes, governments have a lot more means to control the population than they used to. And they are getting more every day.

[Politics_Observer]

@wat0n

And there are many new methods developed and being developed to circumvent government ability to spy and control the population too. It's an arms race. Open source technology and encryption are one of those methods.

[Crantag]

The same could be said about Marxists, Pote. The same could be said about Marxists.

But yes, governments have a lot more means to control the population than they used to. And they are getting more every day.

The same can't be said about Marxists.

Don't highjack his point and try to redirect it against him, with your fallacy.

The trouble with Marxism is, it's accurate.

[wat0n]

The same can't be said about Marxists.

Don't highjack his point and try to redirect it against him, with your fallacy.

The trouble with Marxism is, it's accurate.

Super accurate indeed, after all, we've living in the post-capitalism world for how many years now?

[Crantag]

Super accurate indeed, after all, we've living in the post-capitalism world for how many years now?

Marxism presents the only honest and accurate analysis of economics.

[late]

Marxism presents the only honest and accurate analysis of economics.

Sigh.

[Potemkin]

Sigh.

So, no arguments then?

[late]

So, no arguments then?

[Crantag]

Can you explain your interpretation of this photo?

Again, not a loaded question. I just didn't get what the point was.



Edit: It's almost like an Animal Farm reference, but there are rabbits instead of pigs.

I just don't understand the point.

But, we are all comrades right now.

As society is collapsing around us.

I vow off engaging in combativeness anymore in political discussion here.

Call it 'anger management'.

But, here on the commune, we can't be engaging in insults and vitriol with our comrades.

I still am wondering what was the point of the photo.

I guess I tested you a couple times lately, but I really don't know what you meant by it.

[Rugoz]

So, no arguments then?

Arguments are pointless because the Pofo Marxists are unwilling the draw the necessary conclusions from the obvious logical and empirical contradictions.

[B0ycey]

Marxism does give an honest account of Capitalism @Rugoz. It doesn't matter how many years of Capitalism we have had, it has failed and been resurrected plenty of times in those years and clearly it hasn't benefitted everyone in those years either. Marx does explain why that is. I thought you said you read DasKapital.

[Potemkin]

Arguments are pointless because the Pofo Marxists are unwilling the draw the necessary conclusions from the obvious logical and empirical contradictions.

....

NO U!!

[Rugoz]

Marxism does give an honest account of Capitalism @Rugoz. It doesn't matter how many years of Capitalism we have had, it has failed and been resurrected plenty of times in those years and clearly it hasn't benefitted everyone in those years either. Marx does explain why that is. I thought you said you read DasKapital.

An "honest account"? How about an accurate account instead? People like Marxism because it makes a clear normative statement about capitalism, not because it's good theory.