Would you support forcing adults to get a vaccine for Covid19? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Would you support forcing adults to get a vaccine for Covid19?

Yes
13
46%
No
15
54%
#15189427
Do you support a government mandated forced vaccination program for this specific virus on all adults? In order to be allowed out of their house, buy their food, use public transport or otherwise just travel freely across the country.

If yes explain why this is necessary vs for example not enforcing mandatory seasonal flu vaccinations (a disease that similarly kills hundreds of thousands of people every year). Or for example you support it because you would support mandatory seasonal vaccinations for all viruses anyway.

If not state why it's not necessary to force seasonal vaccinations for respiratory viruses, specifically covid.

I'll start. I vote no because it is proven to be a high risk only to over-50's with at least 4 or more co-morbidities. I don't fit that demographic, neither do most adults in most countries. On top of that the vaccines aren't very effective against latest strains and will need to be seasonal. A mandated seasonal vaccination program is unprecedented/irregular outside of the public healthcare sector and would certainly suggest highly controversial political motivations.
#15189432
I voted no.

In addition to Igor's disagreements, I am also significantly concerned about the increasing police state mentality in society as well as the Victorian Government's Orwellian response to the pandemic.

It's quite frightening to see that there are people out there who actually want to stop people from attending the local supermarket and buying standard normal everyday groceries based upon their Vaccination status.

I am also concerned about the mental health impact such a forced Vaccination life has on children. We are going to see child and teen suicides skyrocket, as well as instances of PTSD. But in the long-term they're going to vote more conservative at least, because they're going to remember you Democrats forcing the every 3-4 months Covid "booster" Jab straight into their fucking arms in order for them to simply "go play outside".
#15189443
Well I voted 'No' given that I believe vaccination should be voluntary. Having said that I do believe the state and businesses do still have a duty to protect their populous and employees. Which means if there is a believed and associated risk to people overall then access to services maybe denied to you if you are unvaccinated such as international travel, confined enclosures, shops, restaurants and large gatherings. That is not forced vaccination to do that. That is giving people a choice but like all choices, there are repercussions for your actions. Having said that if you do take that course of action, everyone in your nation first needs to be offered the opportunity to be vaccinated otherwise it is unfair - which in the UK at least is the case. That might not be the case in Australia though.
#15189462
If we allow them to implement vaccine passports then what's next? Driving passports as proof of competence, showing ID before taking a domestic flight, having my person searched and guns confiscated before boarding the plane? I don't want to be treated like a criminal whilst doing everyday activities just because other people don't want to be endangered by me.
#15189464
AFAIK wrote:If we allow them to implement vaccine passports then what's next? Driving passports as proof of competence, showing ID before taking a domestic flight, having my person searched and guns confiscated before boarding the plane? I don't want to be treated like a criminal whilst doing everyday activities just because other people don't want to be endangered by me.



...gasp...what if...what if voter ID was implemented too? :eek:

Injecting random substances into your bloodstream akin to having proof of learning to drive...nice contrasts there Einstein.
#15189465
Igor Antunov wrote:Do you support a government mandated forced vaccination program for this specific virus on all adults? In order to be allowed out of their house, buy their food, use public transport or otherwise just travel freely across the country.

If yes explain why this is necessary vs for example not enforcing mandatory seasonal flu vaccinations (a disease that similarly kills hundreds of thousands of people every year). Or for example you support it because you would support mandatory seasonal vaccinations for all viruses anyway.

If not state why it's not necessary to force seasonal vaccinations for respiratory viruses, specifically covid.

I'll start. I vote no because it is proven to be a high risk only to over-50's with at least 4 or more co-morbidities. I don't fit that demographic, neither do most adults in most countries. On top of that the vaccines aren't very effective against latest strains and will need to be seasonal. A mandated seasonal vaccination program is unprecedented/irregular outside of the public healthcare sector and would certainly suggest highly controversial political motivations.


Forcing mandatory vaccination obviously no. But vaccine passport and limitations on some activities are perfectly fine as long as it is the choice of private business or individuals. Government restrictions on travel and attendance is also fine.

Something along those lines.
#15189467
JohnRawls wrote:Forcing mandatory vaccination obviously no. But vaccine passport and limitations on some activities are perfectly fine as long as it is the choice of private business or individuals. Government restrictions on travel and attendance is also fine.

Something along those lines.


Government controls every meter of land between my front door and every other location. Restricted? So an effective vaccine mandate? You're free to not take the vaccine as long as you don't leave your house for goods or work. Ok.
#15189468
Igor Antunov wrote:Government controls every meter of land between my front door and every other location. Restricted? So an effective vaccine mandate? You're free to not take the vaccine as long as you don't leave your house for goods or work. Ok.


No. Restrictions are not mandate and nobody is stopping you from attending or traveling but you will have to take tests all the time for your money as long as the public or private institution allows for this.

I understand that you want to paint it that way but you have to suffer the consequences of your choices the same way as if you don't have money then you can't buy some things.
#15189469
JohnRawls wrote:No. Restrictions are not mandate and nobody is stopping you from attending or traveling but you will have to take tests all the time for your money as long as the public or private institution allows for this.

I understand that you want to paint it that way but you have to suffer the consequences of your choices the same way as if you don't have money then you can't buy some things.


Oh I get it. Like having a bunch of hippie sex, then having to deal with the consequences of attempting an abortion in Texas. Makes sense. Choices and consequences.
#15189470
Igor Antunov wrote:Oh I get it. Like having a bunch of hippie sex, then having to deal with the consequences of attempting an abortion in Texas. Makes sense. Choices and consequences.


To some degree yes with the exception that most restrictions are applied by private institutions and individuals and vaccine passport is just a tool that allows the private and public individuals to do so.
#15189471
JohnRawls wrote:To some degree yes with the exception that most restrictions are applied by private institutions and individuals and vaccine passport is just a tool that allows the private and public individuals to do so.


However, we know the vaccinated can both get the virus and spread it. So wouldn't a monitored daily rapid test kit be a safer socially responsible solution? Eg. you get up in the morning, take rapid test in front of selfie cam, send results off to ministry of compliance and receive a daily passport from big brother that expires in 24hrs. Then your state mandated front door unlocks and you can leave. Rinse and repeat the next day. Brave new world.

In fact it would make sense for the vaccinated to have to do this too. Otherwise we could have vaccinated super spreaders roaming around.
#15189472
Igor Antunov wrote:However, we know the vaccinated can both get the virus and spread it. So wouldn't a monitored daily rapid test kit be a safer socially responsible solution? Eg. you get up in the morning, take rapid test in front of selfie cam, send results off to ministry of compliance and receive a daily passport from big brother that expires in 24hrs. Then your state mandated front door unlocks and you can leave. Rinse and repeat the next day. Brave new world.

In fact it would make sense for the vaccinated to have to do this too. Otherwise we could have vaccinated super spreaders roaming around.


The point of vaccination is that it prevents massive hospitalisations. I think that I said it 50 times by now but the vaccination is vaccinating the healthcare from you with the added benefit that you will be 20 times less likely to die or have long term physical consequences. The reasons for the lockdowns is that we can't treat or manage all people in the hospitals if Covid gets out of hand.

So it is kinda irrelevant if the vaccine people can get infected as long as the person doesn't die or doesn't need to go to the hospital. No vaccine ever managed to be 100% effective against x virus and it all boils down to preventing death and hospitalisations.

TLDR for you Igor: A vaccinated person is a threat to you but not to another vaccinated person.
#15189485
JohnRawls wrote:
TLDR for you Igor: A vaccinated person is a threat to you but not to another vaccinated person.


This is not true, especially in the high risk age groups. The worst week for us here recently in Australia was the one where 12 died, all but 1 were vaccinated. All but one were over 80.

If you and granny are fully vaxxed you can still kill granny. I for one don't have a granny and I don't care to visit your granny.
#15189491
Igor Antunov wrote:This is not true, especially in the high risk age groups. The worst week for us here recently in Australia was the one where 12 died, all but 1 were vaccinated. All but one were over 80.

If you and granny are fully vaxxed you can still kill granny. I for one don't have a granny and I don't care to visit your granny.


Well yes, that is why my grandma is vaxxed.

I don't know how to put it:
Pre vaccination around 10-15% of cases needed some form of hospital treatment. Obviously not all were under with severe breathing problems but medical help is still medical help that costs money, resources and prevents aid for other diseases. Around 2-2.5% of all cases died. This number also includes excessive mortality from untreated other diseases for example some operation that couldn't be conducted because Covid took all the beds and resources away.

These are based on American statistics who seem to be more or less correct with perhaps 20% of understatement. Using worldwide statistics for this is problematic because there are a lot of misreporting from countries outside of Europe and Norther America. For example latest studies showed that excess mortality is 6 times higher compared to Covid deaths in Russia. Similar studies were done for other countries and the deviation in Europe/US is around 10/20% understatement while outside is folds like Russia. Some places stopped posting excessive mortality statistics altogether.

After vaccination the hospitalisation rate dropped by 7-8 folds for societies with around 70% vaccination.(UK) With around 60-40 split of people being in hospitals. 60 unvaccinated and 40 vaccinated. So theoretically with 90-100% vaccination rates that number can be decreased to 15+ fold reduction in hospitalisation or medical treatment. (I am not sure how much fold but it is probably not linear scaling) Death wise there is also a huge decrease.

So most countries with 70% vaccination are okay unless numbers of cases increase 5-8 more fold which is unlikely in any scenario I think. From a government/healthcare management standpoint Covid is already resolved.
#15189500
Same difference. If I can't feed myself or engage in society it might as well be a government mandated rule.

If I'm going to be forced, I want options. Therefore I want vaccines with no serious side effects. Therefore...

Image

Similar figures across the rest of the country. Indonesia uses 90% Sinovac. Give me inactivated vaccine or give me death. kthnxbai
#15189525
I would definitely support a policy where unvaccinated people are not allowed to enter any building or vehicle accessible to the public or get within two metres of another human being.

This would apply for more than just Covid.

Obviously, people with valid medical reasons for not being vaccinated would be exempt.
#15189535
@Igor Antunov

I think government mandated vaccine against COVID is necessary. If the people without good medical cause refuse to vaccinate, fine them and if they continue to resist, charge them with a crime with additional fines and penalties for failure to pay the fine. If a school or state refuses to comply, take away federal funding from those schools or any federal funded institution until they do comply. Public health is at stake and so is the economy. We can't afford to play around. If it is necessarily to mobilize massive federal resources nation wide in all U.S. states to enforce such a mandate then so be it. Again, the economy and the health and well being of the public is at stake. We can't afford to play around.
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