[Rugoz]

The UK is getting far less deaths per new case than the countries that used Pfizer or Moderna as their main vaccines. Less than 140 deaths per week, and 37k new cases. Their main vaccine is clearly working better.

Nonsense.

You're clueless and immune to arguments.

But get AZ.

[colliric]

Nonsense.

You're clueless and immune to arguments.

But get AZ.

Compare the UK to Israel then get back to me.

One's open for business the other one's looking at another lockdown. One used AZ as it's primary vaccine, the other used Pfizer.

[B0ycey]

Jesus, don't listen to your GP, he/she is a fucking idiot.

Anyone who writes that a doctor who is trying to convince a patient is a fucking idiot, is a biggest fucking idiot out there IMHO. Health professionals have been handicapped by the EU AZ infighting propaganda that went on earlier in the year and the very vaccine that is actually administered at cost and not profit seems to have fucking idiots like you bad mouthing it. I don't support one vaccine over another. They are both as safe as the next. I do have a problem with users saying doctors are fucking idiots especially when a vaccine skeptic says they want to take one vaccine over another. The objective is to get everyone vaccinated. And clearly the doctor was just trying to explain that in Malaysia at least AZ has been proven to have better stats than another, which I suppose is important for Australia given the UK has loaned out a large supply of AZ to them.

[Rugoz]

Anyone who writes that a doctor who is trying to convince a patient is a fucking idiot, is a biggest fucking idiot out there IMHO. Health professionals have been handicapped by the EU AZ infighting propaganda that went on earlier in the year and the very vaccine that is actually administered at cost and not profit seems to have fucking idiots like you bad mouthing it. I don't support one vaccine over another. They are both as safe as the next. I do have a problem with users say doctors are fucking idiots especially when a vaccine skeptic says they want to take one vaccine over another. The objective is to get everyone vaccinated. And clearly the doctor was just trying to explain that in Malaysia at least AZ has been proven to have better stats than another, which I suppose is important for Australia given the UK has loaned out a large supply of AZ to them.

There are lots of stupid doctors out there who reject certain treatments for "ideological reasons". I happen to have many doctors in my extended family who can attest to that.

I never badmouthed AZ so you're barking at the wrong tree.

The "stats" aren't stats, there're simply death rates without context, utterly meaningless.

Compare the UK to Israel then get back to me.

One's open for business the other one's looking at another lockdown. One used AZ as it's primary vaccine, the other used Pfizer.

As I said, get AZ.

[B0ycey]

There are lots of stupid doctors out there who reject certain treatments for "ideological reasons". I happen to have many doctors in my extended family who can attest to that.

I never badmouthed AZ so you're barking at the wrong tree.

The "stats" aren't stats, there're simply death rates without context, utterly meaningless.

Without seeing the source, it is difficult to fully understand it. However I do know how doctors work. They want to give their patients the best possible treatment. Clearly this doctor showed this specific data to get his patient to be vaccinated because at this moment in time Australia is skeptical on AZ specifically which is indeed truly fucking idiotic. And that should be obvious. But you come along and say that the doctor shouldn't be listened to. That is anti vaxxer territory ffs.

Remember, the doctor only showed the data. The other 80% of Collirics post is his own conjecture. And no matter how, what or why someone makes their choice, ultimately the only goal from health professionals perspective is to protect their patients.

[Godstud]

I was not exaggerating idiot.

But you are an exaggerating idiot.

You have been exaggerating since you began on this thread. From the beginning when vaccines were bad, to now only specific vaccines being bad. You'll no doubt change your mind in a few days and go back to being a full-fledged idiot anti-vaxxer.

[Pants-of-dog]

@colliric

Provide evidence for the claims made by the doctor.

[colliric]

@colliric

Provide evidence for the claims made by the doctor.

You get access to privately released Medical data from the Malaysian heath Ministry first.

Then we'll talk.

Doctors get access to privately released Medical research data and statistics not accessible to the general public. Helps them give better advice on which vaccine to recommend to their patients.

Here you can ask them for it yourself if you want to:
http://www.jacksoncourtclinic.com.au/

[Pants-of-dog]

You get access to privately released Medical data from the Malaysian heath Ministry first.

Then we'll talk.

Doctors get access to privately released Medical research data and statistics not accessible to the general public. Helps them give better advice on which vaccine to recommend to their patients.

Here you can ask them for it yourself if you want to:
http://www.jacksoncourtclinic.com.au/

Since you have no evidence, we have no way of verifying your claims, and therefore we have no way if knowing if you are lying or mistaken, or if the doctor is.

Actual news articles from Malaysia discussing adverse reactions from Covid vaccines explicitly state that no deaths at all occurred.

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2021 ... ysia-nsttv

So, either your doctor is wrong, or 300 deaths occurred in the last eleven days and somehow made it into stats that the doctor received but that the press has not.

At this point, the logical assumption is that your doctor is wrong.

[colliric]

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2021 ... -explained

Well shucks.... Found it right there on your own source's website.....

A news portal report that echoed the analysis also claimed that there have been 10.11 vaccine breakthrough deaths for every 100,000 people vaccinated with Sinovac, 3.47 per 100,000 for Pfizer recipients and 0.91 deaths per 100,000 for AstraZeneca.

The report he showed me was official data mentioned in the article.

Obviously he had updated figures since its above 250 in the 7mill doses now and he was using the official report.

9 in one million for AZ(or 0.91 in 100000!)

Now fuck off. Don't call me a liar ever again.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2021/09/726451/deaths-among-vaccinated-must-be-explained

Well shucks.... Found it right there on your own source's website.....

Yes, those are people who died of Covid and not the vaccine despite being vaccinated.

This is not what you claimed.

Obviously he had updated figures since its above 250 in the 7mill doses now and he was using the official report.

9 in one million for AZ.

You or the doctor obviously got confused between deaths caused by the vaccine, and deaths among vaccinated caused by Covid.

The former is zero. The latter is not.

Now, how many vaccinated people died because of Covid compared to unvaccinated?

Apparently, 19 times as many. https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/590779

Now fuck off. Don't call me a liar ever again.

I never called you a liar.

I said one of the possibilities is that you are lying.

And I would say the same to your face, while I doubt you would be so insulting if you were in my oresence.

[colliric]

Nonetheless the statistics do show that the Astrazenaca vaccine is the most effective at getting the death rate down, preventing transmission and no need for booster shots.

So once again, I have changed my mind. If they say " you have to get it, or lose your job", I will get the AZ vaccine.

[Pants-of-dog]

Nonetheless the statistics do show that the Astrazenaca vaccine is the most effective at getting the death rate down,

Show evidence for this claim.

preventing transmission

Show evidence for this claim.

and no need for booster shots.

Show evidence for this claim.

Also, the fact that you have given up defending your incorrect claim is an implied concession that you were wrong about Malaysia.

[colliric]

Show evidence for this claim.

It's in the quote dickhead. Stats are right here:
A news portal report that echoed the analysis also claimed that there have been 10.11 vaccine breakthrough deaths for every 100,000 people vaccinated with Sinovac, 3.47 per 100,000 for Pfizer recipients and 0.91 deaths per 100,000 for AstraZeneca.

Have to repost it because you obviously failed to understand the numbers.

Show evidence for this claim.

Later. Focusing on your other two first.

Show evidence for this claim.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covi ... 54622.html

Creator of AZ vaccine explicitly says so.

Also, the fact that you have given up defending your incorrect claim is an implied concession that you were wrong about Malaysia.

What incorrect claim? You misread my original post, that's your fault not mine. I was always talking about "the death rate", just as I was referring to the "Death rate" when I posted the UK stats. You misread my original post. That's your fault not mine. Where did I explicitly state it was deaths caused solely by side effects? I never did idiot.

[Pants-of-dog]

It's in the quote.

Stats are right here:
A news portal report that echoed the analysis also claimed that there have been 10.11 vaccine breakthrough deaths for every 100,000 people vaccinated with Sinovac, 3.47 per 100,000 for Pfizer recipients and 0.91 deaths per 100,000 for AstraZeneca.

Have to repost it because you obviously failed to understand the numbers.

So your evidence only applies to Malaysia.

Later. Focusing on your other two first.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covi ... 54622.html

Creator of AZ vaccine explicitly says so.

Quote the relevant text.

What incorrect claim? You misread my original post, that's your fault not mine. I was always talking about "the death rate", just as I was referring to the "Death rate" when I posted the UK stats. You misread my original post. That's your fault not mine. Where did I explicitly state it was deaths caused solely by side effects? I never did idiot.

So you incorrectly used the phrase “adverse reaction” while coincidentally holding an anti-vax stance?

I had no idea you were so clueless about vaccine terminology while simultaneously claiming to know more about vaccines than the rest of us.

When people talk about “adverse reaction” in terms of vaccines, they are discussing the bad reactions that are thought to be caused by the vaccine.

You used the phrase wrong.

Now you know.

[wat0n]

Who cares which one you take. Pfizer-BioNTech, ModeRNA, AstraZeneca, Sinovac - they all work with the appropriate dosage even if their effectiveness is not necessarily the same across the board. Just get one and be done with it.

[Unthinking Majority]

Nobody should be forced to get a vaccine but you can deny access to non-essential crowded areas/events like concerts, sports events etc and private companies can require whatever they wish.

[AFAIK]

I'm not sure whether to vote yes or no since I support excluding vaccinated people from some spaces but not others. Igor should have included more options.

Exclude them from public transport/ planes because they are crowded and poorly ventilated.
Exclude them from entertainment venues because those are non-essential spaces.
Don't exclude them from food retailers because access is essential.
Exclude them from restaurants because those are non-essential.

I'm on the fence about making it a requirement for employment or enrollment.
Requiring unvaxxed peeps to take weekly tests and to quarantine or self isolate after a positive result (at their own expense) may be preferable.

[JohnRawls]

UK just released data since 1st of January till Today.

Out of 51,281 Covid deaths
Unvaccinated 38,964
Vaccinated with 1 dose 11,617
Vaccinated with 2 doses 640

So with 2 doses it is basically 1.2% of total deaths from Covid.

[B0ycey]

UK just released data since 1st of January till Today.

Out of 51,281 Covid deaths
Unvaccinated 38,964
Vaccinated with 1 dose 11,617
Vaccinated with 2 doses 640

So with 2 doses it is basically 1.2% of total deaths from Covid.

Actually, 640 deaths with 90% efficiency is very impressive indeed.