[Potemkin]

Were he to implement polices that were fascist, that might be the case, but it's not. He is as bound by the Thai Constitution as every other military junta(coup) before him.

Plaek Phibunsongkhram

[late]

It's beside the point. The US didn't rebuild Europe, its contribution was marginal. Europeans did that. But the US (arguably) provided the framework where Europeans could successfully rebuild.

Nice job giving up and pretending you didn't.

[Godstud]

@Potemkin My mistake. I thought he was referring to a present PM and not one from ver 50 years ago.

He was still not a Fascist, as Rich claims. Corrupt, yes, but he isn't the first military guy to have a coup in Thailand.

Every time a coup was staged, scapegoats or excuses were found to justify it. Eventually, the ensuing junta government would hand the government back to elected officials. As a result, there have been 18 coups and 18 constitutions in the history of Thai politics.

The current government will soon be back to being elected. Thais like their Democracy... occasionally.

Short but interresting read:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/why-doe ... coups.html

[wat0n]

It's absurd to say the military governments are "bound by the Constitution" when one of the things they do is to write a new one. Unless of course they include that the military can always change it by staging a coup, but that would be a rather odd way to do it

[Rugoz]

Nice job giving up and pretending you didn't.

Fuck you too. I had that position for ages.

[Crantag]

Without Russia Germany would have won in Europe, no doubt, but I don't think Germany/Japan would have been capable of conquering America. The US had nukes and a superior economy.

Without the US Germany would still have won in Europe and without the US that would have meant the world.

Do you have considerations on what could have happened if Japan had declared war on Russia when Germany invaded, rather than attacking the US?

I guess it is complicated, but this has been an intriguing question, I suppose.

[QatzelOk]

It only suggests that I'd have you in opposition rather than in government even in a post-capitalist and reasonable world because being critical of government appears to be your most useful and basic attribute.

However, it may be so only when you're not in government.

We live in a time where not only individual politicians are corrupt and useless, but our entire political model has become this. And this might be fatal on a great scale.

Sometimes, an entire civilizational model has to die. And when this is the time that you are living in, the only moral way to be is in opposition.

I would say that British capitalism-world is at that point.

[Godstud]

It's absurd to say the military governments are "bound by the Constitution" when one of the things they do is to write a new one. Unless of course they include that the military can always change it by staging a coup, but that would be a rather odd way to do it

Thailand has had a monarchy which the Thais have respected and that has acted like a check and balance of even these juntas. It's a strange country, indeed.

Few Thais are actually outraged at the current regime(even the well educated) and most expect it to change relatively soon.

The military is almost invisible these days, and has been for the last 3 years, where at one time they operated alongside the police departments to prevent corruption.

On the ground, here, you'd be hard-pressed to find evidence of any sort of military junta. Life goes on much as it did before.

[Crantag]

Thailand has had a monarchy which the Thais have respected and that has acted like a check and balance of even these juntas. It's a strange country, indeed.

Few Thais are actually outraged at the current regime(even the well educated) and most expect it to change relatively soon.

The military is almost invisible these days, and has been for the last 3 years, where at one time they operated alongside the police departments to prevent corruption.

On the ground, here, you'd be hard-pressed to find evidence of any sort of military junta. Life goes on much as it did before.

Know anything on the scene in Myanmar?

Any analogies?

Question just occurred to me.

[Patrickov]

Thailand has had a monarchy which the Thais have respected and that has acted like a check and balance of even these juntas. It's a strange country, indeed.

Might be true for the previous monarch, not so much for the current one (who's much less popular).

But more importantly, do you think the Shinawatra group are traitors (in the sense that they compromise their country's rights)? This seems an important factor to decide the legitimacy of the most recent two juntas.

[Godstud]

But more importantly, do you think the Shinawatra group are traitors (in the sense that they compromise their country's rights)? This seems an important factor to decide the legitimacy of the most recent two juntas.

The majority of Thais want the Shiwinatra's back. They did a lot for most of the Thai people, and Thailand has a mostly rural population, which benefited greatly from their rule.

I can see the next coup being the return of them. Pro-Shiwinatra politicians did very well in the last election, but the problem was that there was too many candidates and they split the vote, badly. Add some shenanigans from the current PM and it led to a win by him.

Yeah, a most Thais think the current King is a right twat. A spoiled brat who never grew up.

Sorry, @Crantag, but you likely know more about what's going on in Myanmar, than I do.

[Crantag]

Sorry, @Crantag, but you likely know more about what's going on in Myanmar, than I do.

I doubt that.

It was something that was in the news cycle for a bit, and just fell out of it.

Not that I'm much up on the news lately.

I was just curious if you knew anything, as it's kinda in the same region, but I can understand it that you don't.

I don't know anything really, was just suddenly curious if you happened to.

[Potemkin]

@Potemkin My mistake. I thought he was referring to a present PM and not one from ver 50 years ago.

He was still not a Fascist, as Rich claims. Corrupt, yes, but he isn't the first military guy to have a coup in Thailand.

No, he was actually a fascist. He imposed the Roman salute and everything. Of course, when he came back into power in the 1950s he had to pretend not to be a fascist, but I wonder who that fooled? Lol.

[Rich]

When were you refering to? You talk WW2 in one breath and then yap about Vietnam in the next.

I'm referring to the Communist insurgency in Thailand itself, a conflict which the US actively participated. It seems again you are the one who is ignorant of the basic history of the country you live in.

I do not deny help they gave Thailand in Vietnam, but USA didn't win that war, and to this day Laos has people dying from unexploded ordnance from that war. Laos AND Vietnam are Communist states, too, so that further proves how wrong you were about the success they had "defending" nations.

So what that the US lost Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos? The Communists had to be stopped. If the US had sent troops into China to stop the Communists, then the wars in Indo-China could perhaps have been avoided. If the US hadn't run its military down so much after World War II then perhaps North Korean wouldn't have gambled on invasion and the Korean war could have been avoided. Even better if Roosevelt hadn't made his unconditional surrender demands. The total defeats of Germany and Japan caused immense destruction and created a power vacuum, which it was inevitable that the Communists would step into.

[Godstud]

That you have to go back to WW2, @Rich only shows what a fool and complete nutter you are. I have not been talking about USA pre 1960, and stated as such. I guess if you want to dwell on the irrelevant(Thailand is not the subject) and your usual conspiracy theories then go right ahead.

USA didn't same the world, but you can keep dreaming your stupid dreams, and delusions.

[Rich]

:roll: That you have to go back to WW2, @Rich only shows what a fool and complete nutter you are. I have not been talking about USA pre 1960, and stated as such. I guess if you want to dwell on the irrelevant(Thailand is not the subject) and your usual conspiracy theories then go right ahead.

USA didn't same the world, but you can keep dreaming your stupid dreams, and delusions.

For God's sake are you totally incapable of comprehending basic English? I'm talking about the Communist insurrection in Thailand generally dated to between 1965 and 1983. No I'm not talking about the Second World War. No I'm not talking about the war in Vietnam, or Laos or Cambodia. No I'm not talking about conflicts prior to 1960, although there's no reason that I shouldn't as the claim was made that America has done nothing good of substance since the second world war.

[Godstud]

@Rich You are incapable of understanding plain English. I said that any good that the USA has done has been far out weighed by the BAD. Read is again. Any good that the USA has done has been far out weighed by the BAD.

I know you ignored that, because you have a narrative where USA saved the world from Communism , like a true backwards redneck Yank.

"Communism evil!", "Socialism evil!", "Capitalism good". "Democracy good!". - That's the typical mantra of people like you, @Rich, because you can't see anything but black and white.

[annatar1914]

@Rich You are incapable of understanding plain English. I said that any good that the USA has done has been far out weighed by the BAD. Read is again. Any good that the USA has done has been far out weighed by the BAD.

I know you ignored that, because you have a narrative where USA saved the world from Communism , like a true backwards redneck Yank.

"Communism evil!", "Socialism evil!", "Capitalism good". "Democracy good!". - That's the typical mantra of people like you, @Rich, because you can't see anything but black and white.

@Godstud ;

I think the key takeaway here with @Rich is that he thinks the USA should have made peace with the Fascists in WWII, or not have gone to war with them in the first place. He also knows that Anti-Communism was the Trojan Horse for Fascists to operate in alliance with America during the Cold War, and all this to him is a good thing.

Rich is no dummy, I'm sure he's read all the right people.

[Patrickov]

The majority of Thais want the Shiwinatra's back. They did a lot for most of the Thai people, and Thailand has a mostly rural population, which benefited greatly from their rule.

I can see the next coup being the return of them. Pro-Shiwinatra politicians did very well in the last election, but the problem was that there was too many candidates and they split the vote, badly.

Add some shenanigans from the current PM and it led to a win by him.

Yeah, a most Thais think the current King is a right twat. A spoiled brat who never grew up.

Both the popularity of the Shiwinatras and vice versa for the current king align with my perceptions (probably don't qualify to be described as "observations")

[Patrickov]

Any good that the USA has done has been far out weighed by the BAD.

I must argue against that.

Successful or not, the United States is probably the first modern / large country to
1. explicitly make democracy and individual freedom its primary goals.
2. genuinely tries to make it a world order
3. demonstrate how freedom and democracy attracts immigration, capital, etc.

I tend to think many if not most of the bad you (and other anti-USA people) regard as "from USA", to be more like "constant factors which the USA is unable and / or uncommitted to single-handedly solve (yet)". The oppression in Afghanistan and the Middle East (especially Saudi Arabia) is one of those examples.

And let's not forget that we seem not to have many alternatives from US leadership, and so far most if not all of them are worse.
In fact, I believe the USA has sucked up a lot of bad so that we do not suffer worse.