[Unthinking Majority]

The US is neither "good" nor "bad" because it's parts of both. Its government has done bad things to other countries for its own security and economic interests, it has also done good things to help other countries like take in refugees and give disaster aid etc.

Also, of all the major options for global hegemony since WWII it has been the best option. The USSR was a brutal dictatorship, especially under Stalin. Any neutral observer would also prefer the US over current Russian or Chinese regimes since the latter are far more brutal with obviously less regard for human rights.

[Crantag]

Palestine should be a legitimate state, while Taiwan only exists due to some people's secession from China after they lost a civil war, and it wouldn't even exist as an independent state without the assistance of the US 7th Fleet, so it's not comparable indeed. Taiwan is as if the Confederation could have kept existing on an island close to the US and originally being part of the US, thanks to the British Navy.

As to whether which side is right or wrong, one has only to look at if which side the US supports, then one clearly sees the wrong side in both cases.

It is indeed not comparable, in that the Taiwan-China case and the Palestine-Israel case are both very separate, and independently complex cases.

As for you commentary, I have no bones to pick, I think I am (at least) largely agreeing with you.

[AFAIK]

Yes, because afterwards they become democracies and still receives US support.

The way you try to break earlier stuff and magnifying it as an atrocity, is in effect taking things out of context, which is downright malicious.

If you don't want to view things as a whole then you are just an anti-US apologist. I am sick of your wicked tricks.

The USA opposed democracy and supported the dictatorship in Egypt during the Arab Spring. It overthrew the elected government of Iran when it threatened to nationalise it's oil fields. It supported the Khmer Rogue at the UN after Vietnam invaded despite it being the most violent and destructive gov't of the 20th century. It supported coups and death squads across Latin America, most recently in Bolivia, and the CIA looked the other way when the Contras trafficked cocaine into the US.

Some countries that have low geopolitical importance get to be lectured and sanctioned for failing to uphold human rights and civil liberties. This was Myanmar's fate until containing China became a priority.

[Godstud]

USA helped Afghanistan and Iraq. What happened to their support?

[Igor Antunov]

This thread is going to be moot very soon;

Poll finds 52% of Republicans and 41% of Democrats in the US support splitting the country in two

The survey shows Republicans and Democrats heavily distrust one another, with 80% or more of respondents from each party saying the opposing side presents “a clear and present danger to American democracy.” In addition, 80% or more of survey respondents said they’re worried they or someone close to them will experience “personal loss or suffering due to the effects” of the opposing party’s policies.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/majo ... &r=US&IR=T

And these percentages will only grow in time.

[Crantag]

USA helped Afghanistan and Iraq. What happened to their support?

The US has also helped a number of countries, like Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Haiti.

The US is certainly a global force, for good.

Nothing to see here.

[Godstud]

Vietnam? @Crantag Fuck off.







Haiti?
U.S. Habit of Backing Strongman Allies Fed Turmoil in Haiti
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/18/worl ... moise.html

America's record in Latin America is pretty godawful, too.

[Crantag]

Vietnam? @Crantag Fuck off.







Haiti?
U.S. Habit of Backing Strongman Allies Fed Turmoil in Haiti
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/18/worl ... moise.html

America's record in Latin America is pretty godawful, too.

I was actually meaning to contribute to your cynical point, not to go against it. Like, "yes indeed, America helped all these countries." I ain't your enemy.

[Potemkin]

I was actually meaning to contribute to your cynical point, not to go against it. Like, "yes indeed, America helped all these countries." I ain't your enemy.

@Godstud is a Canadian, @Crantag - they don't do sarcasm.

[Crantag]

@Godstud is a Canadian, @Crantag - they don't do sarcasm.

Oh, okay.

@Godstud, America is shit, eh.

But Canada is shit as well, eh.

Hey, Godstud, let's smoke a joint.

And do you know a good bar around here?

Hey, Godstud, thanks for talking to me, and smoking a joint with me.

Have a nice night.


(I do love Canada.)

[Rich]

Vietnam? @Crantag Fuck off.

Why don't you fuck off Godstud? Seriously why don't you? What do actually contribute to the forum? Why are you here?

The whole point of the forum is that its members and users have diverse ideological outlooks. That inevitably means that we all are going to read things at times we think are dishonest, lies, trolling, ignorant or said in bad faith. You seem to think that you have some God given right to police the forum telling anyone you object to fuck off. Yet you don't even take the time to spend five seconds thinking about what your fellow forum members are actually saying. I knew straight away that @Crantag was being sarcastic, but you didn't have the courtesy to think about Crantag's outlook for five seconds when he was actually trying to support the points you were making.

The great irony is that many people are on a spectrum, uncomfortable to enraged by the support that America has given to right wing conservative regimes who have committed serious so called human rights abuses. Yet you have admitted that you are a police officer for the Thai regime. The right wing conservative human rights abusing American ally par excellence Really you couldn't make this stuff up.. It was the Thai regime that was the most intractable opponent of the Vietnamese Communist regime. It was the Thai regime that backed the Khmer Rouge and its allies after they were overthrown, allowed them sanctuary on their borders and pushed the United States to keep recognising the Khmer Rouge as the official government.

You complained about Trump and his supporters, you accused them of trying to overthrow the election result when they didn't like the result. But that's exactly what the regime you work for has done. Multiple times. If the Thai regime doesn't like an election result they have a coup. The Thai regime is the Olympic Champion, the Gold medal owner for coups. In Thailand you're allowed democracy only as long as you vote for the right result.

[Godstud]

Awwww did poor little @Rich get triggered?

Sarcasm can be hard to detect on this forum, as some really extreme people exist. People like you, @Rich.

@Crantag got what I meant, but I am not offended by him and he not by me, either. We can talk. Obviously you can't.

You, @Rich, preach. You preach LIES. You preach conspiracy theories. You preach nonsense.

You do not have a diverse outlook, @Rich, you have an insanely stupid one.


@Crantag, I don't do joints but I'm up for a beer any time.

[Istanbuller]

I am critical about people like @Godstud from Canada and United States.

[Godstud]

Childish post, @Istanbuller. I guess you care more about the person making the argument than the argument itself. Kinda dumb.

[wat0n]

The US has also helped a number of countries, like Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Haiti.

The US is certainly a global force, for good.

Nothing to see here.

Grenada and Panama didn't turn out too bad, though. Grenada in particular celebrates the US intervention to this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving#Grenada

[Pants-of-dog]

The immigrants from Grenada that I have spoken to do not celebrate it.

But then again, they were exiled by the USA, so it makes sense why they have a different opinion than those who stayed.

It does make people wonder why those who stayed ended up supporting the foreign invaders.

[wat0n]

Yeah, I wonder why would they support going back into being a democracy as opposed to the coup supporters who were obviously not going to enjoy the consequences of staying in Grenada.

[Pants-of-dog]

Yeah, I wonder why would they support going back into being a democracy as opposed to the coup supporters who were obviously not going to enjoy the consequences of staying in Grenada.

Who are "they" in this sentence?

[wat0n]

Who are "they" in this sentence?

The exiles you met in Canada.

The irony in that case is that the US stepped in to stop a coup against a socialist PM by his own party. A socialist PM who got to power after a coup himself, at that.

[Rugoz]

PoD knows nothing about any of those things. He's the archetypal "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" poster.