Who is right? Progressive vs conservative on crime - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Who is more correct from the video?

Progressive reporter (failure of the government system)
2
67%
Conservative politician (failure of personal responsibility)
1
33%
#15326073
Unthinking Majority wrote:This is a clip of a Canadian conservative politician answering a question from a progressive reporter on crime (repeat offender).


They're both right, and both wrong, but the conservative politician makes more sense. All the research agrees that almost all serious crime is committed by a tiny number of prolific offenders, almost all of them young males. These people have psychological problems that cannot be fixed, but may sometimes become less severe with age. The criminal justice system should focus on identifying them and removing them from the community until they are too old to be dangerous. Instead, it just catches and releases them to commit more crimes. They need to be incarcerated. But the purpose of incarcerating them is not rehabilitation, punishment, or deterrence, none of which are effective. It is prevention.
#15326074
Truth To Power wrote:They're both right, and both wrong, but the conservative politician makes more sense. All the research agrees that almost all serious crime is committed by a tiny number of prolific offenders, almost all of them young males. These people have psychological problems that cannot be fixed, but may sometimes become less severe with age. The criminal justice system should focus on identifying them and removing them from the community until they are too old to be dangerous. Instead, it just catches and releases them to commit more crimes. They need to be incarcerated. But the purpose of incarcerating them is not rehabilitation, punishment, or deterrence, none of which are effective. It is prevention.

Spoken like a true Stalinist, @Truth To Power. And I mean that as a sincere compliment. :)
#15326075
I'm in the camp of "Other".

These thing are so complex it's foolish that a solution can be expressed with one simple statement. There is no "One weird trick" with respect to crime.

We turn often turn kids who make one mistake in to repeat offenders BTW. We also spend a lot of time prosecuting the non prolific offenders as well.
#15326079
Rancid wrote:I'm in the camp of "Other".

These thing are so complex it's foolish that a solution can be expressed with one simple statement. There is no "One weird trick" with respect to crime.

We turn often turn kids who make one mistake in to repeat offenders BTW. We also spend a lot of time prosecuting the non prolific offenders as well.


Ask the politician for one specific example of a criminal who has been arrested 60-70 times. An intelligent conversation on this subject would focus on sentencing guidelines. The length of sentence and parole eligibility increases for repeat offenders.
#15326083
Rancid wrote:I'm in the camp of "Other".

These thing are so complex it's foolish that a solution can be expressed with one simple statement. There is no "One weird trick" with respect to crime.

We turn often turn kids who make one mistake in to repeat offenders BTW. We also spend a lot of time prosecuting the non prolific offenders as well.

Then you're arguing on the side of systemic failure. How does the system turn people into repeat violent offenders? They aren't forcing them to commit violent crime. Lots of people clean up their act. And we're talking about grown adults here, over the age of majority, being released on bail who have been released 60 or 70 times.

My opinion is that certain environmental factors can create conditions that make committing crime more attractive as an option, but ultimately that everyone is responsible for their own actions. We can and should help criminals reform, but anyone not in control of their actions and commit violence probably has mental illness and the public needs to be protected from them. Anyone else who is a serial repeat violent offender needs to be locked up until they show they're likely to not re-offend.

In British Columbia, Canada, many of the people who live there are far-left progressives, similar to cities on the west coast of the US like Portland, San Fran etc. These progressive judges are releasing repeat violent offenders on bail and they're harming people again according to the data.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9647036/bc-b ... offenders/
#15326133
Hakeer wrote:
Quick fix: Lock’em up.

If, as a society, we don’t do a better job of dealing with problems like youth mental health and drug addiction, there will be more coming.


It's multi-factored, of course. That is the core of my point. Society bares a burden and responsibility, and so does the individual. The people that push this on "one simple answer" all have some dip shit political axe to grind, or some propaganda to push. That politician is a dipshit because he's not interested in real solutions and real thoughtfulness.

Over simplifications rule the day in our society, because we have a bunch of tiktop morons everywhere.
#15326137
Rancid wrote:What the video said, personal responsibility

Problem is, that sounds like blaming; but although repeat violent offenders are what they are, they are not to blame for what they are. They may have genetic or hormonal disorders, fetal alcohol syndrome, PTSD, etc. Their personalities are typically characterized by low intelligence, low agreeableness, low conscientiousness, and low emotional resilience, all of which have substantial genetic components. Early intensive interventions can apparently turn some of them around; but once they hit their teens, rehabilitation becomes nearly impossible.

However, elementary logic tells us that a right to liberty can only be for those who respect others' rights. People who are a danger to others have to be incarcerated long-term. Incarceration can ensure the safety of the community without being hellish; look at the Norwegian model. We just have to find a willingness to spend the money to make it humane.
#15326150
Rancid wrote:These thing are so complex it's foolish that a solution can be expressed with one simple statement. There is no "One weird trick" with respect to crime.

QFT!
Hakeer wrote:Ask the politician for one specific example of a criminal who has been arrested 60-70 times.

He didn't say anything about being arrested 60-70 times, he said 60 or 70 offenses which is entirely credible. One thing I am a fan of is shooting galleries. its important to look for opportunities to cut off substantial cash flows into the criminal economy. Stopping adult drug fiends from killing themselves should not be a top priority. The priorities should be reducing the cash flow into the criminal gangs, reducing the petty crime that fiends use to fund their habits and reducing the supply of drugs to under eighteens.
#15326172
Rich wrote:QFT!

He didn't say anything about being arrested 60-70 times, he said 60 or 70 offenses which is entirely credible. One thing I am a fan of is shooting galleries. its important to look for opportunities to cut off substantial cash flows into the criminal economy. Stopping adult drug fiends from killing themselves should not be a top priority. The priorities should be reducing the cash flow into the criminal gangs, reducing the petty crime that fiends use to fund their habits and reducing the supply of drugs to under eighteens.


His exact words were “repeat violent offenses”. Ask him to name a person who has 60-70 repeat violent offenses. He is either just making up the numbers or counting the number of times the guy was stopped for questioning.
#15326184
You could compare the recidivism rates of different countries and then argue how big of an impact different policies and regimes have. Posting a video where the most coherent statement was, "people can't do crime whilst they're in prison but once they're released, who knows?" won't get you very far.
#15326192
Hakeer wrote:His exact words were “repeat violent offenses”. Ask him to name a person who has 60-70 repeat violent offenses.

Violent offenses are not recorded anywhere, only arrests and convictions. But we know there are many more offenses than arrests and convictions therefor. Anyone who gets themselves into that many violent situations is very likely to either get themselves incarcerated long-term, or run into someone who makes sure they can't do it again. There are certainly people who have been convicted of that many offenses, though not all of them violent, like Roy Gene Hopkins:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6581526
#15326265
AFAIK wrote:You could compare the recidivism rates of different countries and then argue how big of an impact different policies and regimes have. Posting a video where the most coherent statement was, "people can't do crime whilst they're in prison but once they're released, who knows?" won't get you very far.

The only scientifically and morally defensible reason for incarcerating criminals is crime prevention. Rehabilitation and deterrence have not been shown to work, and punishment is just vengefulness. Of course, there are indefensible reasons for incarceration, like making slave labor available to corporations that prefer not to pay the wages they would have to pay free workers.

I find some irony on a spiritual and historical le[…]

Since when have most voters ever been any differe[…]

World War II Day by Day

November 9, Saturday Greeks force Italian HQ to […]

What Do You Drive?

2021 Honda Odyssey. Great family car, love it.