What is Fascism - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

What is Fascism?

Anti-Socialist Bulwork to protect capitalism
22
30%
Institutional totalitarian
24
32%
Fanaticism
2
3%
Mercantilism
No votes
0%
Socialism
7
9%
Other (please elaborate)
19
26%
By late
#15123242
Julian658 wrote:
The question is: How does anyone foster a solid family? I suspect, this is all cultural.



That's beyond silly.

As per my previous example, how are you going to have a good family without a job? Shared dumpster diving?
By Pants-of-dog
#15123246
Countries will purge disloyal government workers when the country is faced with an existential threat from a foreign power, and that foreign power had a history of using disloyal government workers to attach the sovereignty of other countries.

Meanwhile, fascist countries (and administrations that tend to fascism) purge people who are disloyal to the administration even if these disloyal workers are loyal to the country.
By wat0n
#15123250
Pants-of-dog wrote:Countries will purge disloyal government workers when the country is faced with an existential threat from a foreign power, and that foreign power had a history of using disloyal government workers to attach the sovereignty of other countries.

Meanwhile, fascist countries (and administrations that tend to fascism) purge people who are disloyal to the administration even if these disloyal workers are loyal to the country.


So what you are saying then is that you are the one who decides who is loyal or disloyal to his country. After all, fascists can also purport to do the same.

By the way, was Michellet Bachelet a fascist too? There were mass political firings when she started her second administration after all.
By Rugoz
#15123260
wat0n wrote:So what you are saying then is that you are the one who decides who is loyal or disloyal to his country. After all, fascists can also purport to do the same.

By the way, was Michellet Bachelet a fascist too? There were mass political firings when she started her second administration after all.


All Latin Americans are secretly fascist.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123271
late wrote:That's beyond silly.

As per my previous example, how are you going to have a good family without a job? Shared dumpster diving?

Ok, you expect the government to do the hard work for the person rather than the family or even the individual. Giving someone a job is not the same as earning a job. I still believe the wellbeing of a person starts at home and not necessarily the government.

We have a vicious circle that is hard to break. You imply that the government can make a bigger impact. I still say it is culture. Cultural norms are incredibly important and play a huge role. We have a class divide in America, however, we also have a cultural divide. I believe culture can change over time.
By late
#15123282
Julian658 wrote:
Ok, you expect the government to do the hard work for the person rather than the family or even the individual. Giving someone a job is not the same as earning a job. I still believe the wellbeing of a person starts at home and not necessarily the government.

We have a vicious circle that is hard to break. You imply that the government can make a bigger impact. I still say it is culture. Cultural norms are incredibly important and play a huge role. We have a class divide in America, however, we also have a cultural divide. I believe culture can change over time.



You aren't paying attention.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123314
late wrote:You aren't paying attention.

OK. maybe I have ADD. Can you be more to the point?

All I am saying is that what we have tried for five decades is not working. We need a new focus and philosophy.
By late
#15123405
Julian658 wrote:
OK. maybe I have ADD. Can you be more to the point?

All I am saying is that what we have tried for five decades is not working. We need a new focus and philosophy.



I've actually studied philosophy, screw philosophy.

We need to use what works. I've gone over it many, many times. The basics never change, poor communities need good schools, health care, transportation, good policing.

Think of it as an investment, instead of a cost. That's because you will pay either way.
By Rich
#15123408
Julian658 wrote:The question is: How does anyone foster a solid family? I suspect, this is all cultural. In the 1950s well over 90% of people were married (all groups). Today marriage is still strong in the mid to upper and upper classes (near 90%) whereas it has disappeared among the low and mid class.

Mid to upper and upper class kids with two parents will have enormous advantages over the low and middle class people with just one parent at home. People on the left go nuts when this is mentioned as they think ALL FAMILIES ARE EQUAL. The dad in the family could be the dog or the cat and they are fine with that. :lol: :lol: This thought has damaged Americans of all racial groups.

The culture of sexual relation amongst America's upper class is nothing like it was it in the nineteen fifties. Things may not have changed as much as in the lower classes, but there still has been massive change. Plus the whole relationship culture of the upper classes is based on the fact that they are upper classes. The norm or at least the ideal is two graduating and then working professionals who have interesting careers with opportunities for advancement, who put off both children and marriage till much later than was the case in the nineteen fifties.

Traditional Christian sexual morality has gone for good. Traditional American Christian cultural sexual morality came as a package, you can't just pick and mix the bits you like, such as stable families. The demonisation of homosexuality and inter morphological racial marriage were essential parts of that culture. The freedom to rape, the toleration of much higher levels of domestic abuse.

The whole American conservative movement was a lying dishonest fraud.
It was Ronald Reagan the conservative who led the charge on no-fault divorce. Maybe you genuinely care about these children but most of your conservative compatriots don't. Or a the very least their caring is pretty low on their list of priorities.

I have no problem with a racially European guy who says to me, I don't want to pay extra taxes to bring up 25 kids spawned by some women beating racially West African crack dealing gang leader thug. But please, please don't try and tell me that you really care about those kids. And please, please please don't try and lay your anti abortion shtick on me and tell me you really wish all those unborn ghetto children had lived and rather than 25 kids left behind to be supported, when your crack dealer gets life without parole its 50.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123410
Rich wrote:The culture of sexual relation amongst America's upper class is nothing like it was it in the nineteen fifties. Things may not have changed as much as in the lower classes, but there still has been massive change. Plus the whole relationship culture of the upper classes is based on the fact that they are upper classes. The norm or at least the ideal is two graduating and then working professionals who have interesting careers with opportunities for advancement, who put off both children and marriage till much later than was the case in the nineteen fifties.

Traditional Christian sexual morality has gone for good. Traditional American Christian cultural sexual morality came as a package, you can't just pick and mix the bits you like, such as stable families. The demonisation of homosexuality and inter morphological racial marriage were essential parts of that culture. The freedom to rape, the toleration of much higher levels of domestic abuse.

The whole American conservative movement was a lying dishonest fraud.
It was Ronald Reagan the conservative who led the charge on no-fault divorce. Maybe you genuinely care about these children but most of your conservative compatriots don't. Or a the very least their caring is pretty low on their list of priorities.

I have no problem with a racially European guy who says to me, I don't want to pay extra taxes to bring up 25 kids spawned by some women beating racially West African crack dealing gang leader thug. But please, please don't try and tell me that you really care about those kids. And please, please please don't try and lay your anti abortion shtick on me and tell me you really wish all those unborn ghetto children had lived and rather than 25 kids left behind to be supported, when your crack dealer gets life without parole its 50.

You discuss subjects and themes I did not mention in my post and hence many parts of your post are straw men.
I will only reply to what I mentioned in my post. The rate of marriage in the upper classes has gone down very little and the rate of marriage in the poor and middle class is extremely low. I agree that the overall culture has changed, that is to be expected.
https://marriagefoundation.org.uk/wp-co ... d-Poor.pdf

This marriage gap increases the wealth gap. The children of a stable two parent home achieve to greater heights in school. Why do youthink the kids of Asian and Indian immigrants do so well?

Image
https://inservice.ascd.org/the-matthew-effect/
By Rich
#15123411
Julian658 wrote:The rate of marriage in the upper classes has gone down very little

This is at best misleading. The percentage of upper class Americans over the age 16 that are married has gone down substantially and the percentage of upper class Americans over the age of 16 that are in their first marriage has dropped even more.

and the rate of marriage in the poor and middle class is extremely low.

This marriage gap increases the wealth gap. The children of a stable two parent home achieve to greater heights in school. Why do youthink the kids of Asian and Indian immigrants do so well?

Image
https://inservice.ascd.org/the-matthew-effect/

I'm not disputing any of this and I'm not arguing that any of this should be ignored. What I'm attacking is Conservative attempts or more often pretences at social engineering. Conservatives have quite rightly been sceptical about progressive liberal and socialist attempts at social engineering but seem to feel they are entitled to expect their own social engineering schemes to work. In America and to a lesser extent in Britain we've now nigh on four decades of Conservative welfare policies that heaped enormous misery on economically struggling people and families. In that time we've seen precious little of the wonderful positive cultural change that was promised from these policies.

In my book taking lead out of petrol and other measures to reduced urban toxic pollution have done far more to help the poor and lower middle class than Conservative polices by a long mile.

Look a lot of people might be stupid and be taken in by fake Conservative concern, but I wasn't born yesterday. Conservative welfare policies were created with the deliberate intention to ferment racial hatred, division and conflict. Conservatives have relentless pushed their racist welfare measage for over half a century.

Black people can't be trusted with Welfare.

Because Black people can not be trusted with welfare, no one's allowed to have welfare.

So their message to poor racial Europeans and potentially other non racially sub Saharan African racial groupings is that its "the Blacks" fault you can't have welfare.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123431
Rich wrote:This is at best misleading. The percentage of upper class Americans over the age 16 that are married has gone down substantially and the percentage of upper class Americans over the age of 16 that are in their first marriage has dropped even more.


OK, marriage itself is a piece of paper. Two cohabitant parents that are not married can be as effective as parents with a marriage certificate. The issue is that TWO parents at home is beneficial for the children (at least in America). It is quite possible that in Europe the outcome is not the same.



I'm not disputing any of this and I'm not arguing that any of this should be ignored. What I'm attacking is Conservative attempts or more often pretences at social engineering. Conservatives have quite rightly been sceptical about progressive liberal and socialist attempts at social engineering but seem to feel they are entitled to expect their own social engineering schemes to work.


I said above that to change cultural patterns is a major task. Regarding social engineering that is very much the domain of the left. All conservatives say is that a strong family is important. IN America the children of Asian and Indian immigrants perform at very high level in school because they have the advantage of a strong family unit. In addition, black immigrants from Africa and the West Indies vastly outperform American born blacks.


In America and to a lesser extent in Britain we've now nigh on four decades of Conservative welfare policies that heaped enormous misery on economically struggling people and families. In that time we've seen precious little of the wonderful positive cultural change that was promised from these policies.


In the USA the 1965 war on poverty increased the single mother rate to 70% in blacks. During Jim Crow it was 20%,

In my book taking lead out of petrol and other measures to reduced urban toxic pollution have done far more to help the poor and lower middle class than Conservative polices by a long mile.

Agreed

Look a lot of people might be stupid and be taken in by fake Conservative concern, but I wasn't born yesterday. Conservative welfare policies were created with the deliberate intention to ferment racial hatred, division and conflict. Conservatives have relentless pushed their racist welfare measage for over half a century.


All the conservatives I know want minorities to succeed. The only ones that benefit from unsuccessful minorities are the left wingers. The left needs the poor to get elected to office.

Black people can't be trusted with Welfare.

Because Black people can not be trusted with welfare, no one's allowed to have welfare.


Getting something for free causes nihilism. This applies to all colors.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123440
late wrote:I've actually studied philosophy, screw philosophy.

We need to use what works. I've gone over it many, many times. The basics never change, poor communities need good schools, health care, transportation, good policing.

Think of it as an investment, instead of a cost. That's because you will pay either way.


I do not disagree. However, we have tried good schools with poor success. The family is still more important than the school regarding the development of a child.

Nevertheless, I would be in favor of schools with emphasis on discipline, character, ethics, and the basics. I would go as far as to prescribe military type prep schools in poor neighborhoods. I would recommend boys and girls schools. My daughters went to only girls Catholic High School and did amazingly well. My son went to a boys only High School.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123442
late wrote:That was kooky..

If you cannot see why------I will be happy to explain. 8)
By late
#15123466
Julian658 wrote:
I do not disagree. However, we have tried good schools with poor success.



Tell me, when you place one piece of a puzzle on the table, do you say that you are finished?

Btw, the world is full of different types of school systems, good, bad, indifferent and horrible.

What we really need is a clean sheet design based on what actually works. No one has done that.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123483
late wrote:Tell me, when you place one piece of a puzzle on the table, do you say that you are finished?

Btw, the world is full of different types of school systems, good, bad, indifferent and horrible.

What we really need is a clean sheet design based on what actually works. No one has done that.

I think we have plenty of examples of what actually works. Two parents at home that are interested in education. There are many parents like that in poor neighborhoods and the NEA denies them choice of a better school for their kids. The parents area forced to send their kids to failing schools. In this regard you have to give the Republicans the upper hand with the concept of school choice.

The American public education is bad because it is in the hands of the unions. By the way the reason we have such an awful police system are the unions. The unions exist to protect the members and not to provide a better service. IN this instance the Republicans have the better plan.

I recall I told you about the Kansas City school system of the 1990s. You need to look that up. They gave the community the most advanced expensive education system in the world.

Japan does much more with less. Many schools do not even have janitors. The children have to clean the school. In Japan it is cool to do well in school. IN many parts of America it is not cool to be a good student. Culture is important! I think I already said that to you.
By late
#15123485
Julian658 wrote:
I think we have plenty of examples of what actually works. Two parents at home that are interested in education. There are many parents like that in poor neighborhoods and the NEA denies them choice of a better school for their kids. The parents area forced to send their kids to failing schools. In this regard you have to give the Republicans the upper hand with the concept of school choice.

The American public education is bad because it is in the hands of the unions. By the way the reason we have such an awful police system are the unions. The unions exist to protect the members and not to provide a better service. IN this instance the Republicans have the better plan.

I recall I told you about the Kansas City school system of the 1990s. You need to look that up. They gave the community the most advanced expensive education system in the world.

Japan does much more with less. Many schools do not even have janitors. The children have to clean the school. In Japan it is cool to do well in school. IN many parts of America it is not cool to be a good student. Culture is important! I think I already said that to you.



My mom was a math teacher. When I was in college she started buying books about education reform. I read most of them. After I graduated, I followed reform efforts. I also did some sub teaching shortly after graduation. Which convinced me I didn't want to be a teacher.

You are shoveling old cliches. Without a realistic plan to help families, reform education, and make their places safe... you have nothing.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123495
late wrote:My mom was a math teacher. When I was in college she started buying books about education reform. I read most of them. After I graduated, I followed reform efforts. I also did some sub teaching shortly after graduation. Which convinced me I didn't want to be a teacher.

You are shoveling old cliches. Without a realistic plan to help families, reform education, and make their places safe... you have nothing.


Cliches?????

This is what you said above:

late wrote:We need to use what works. I've gone over it many, many times. The basics never change, poor communities need good schools, health care, transportation, good policing.


That is the mother of all cliches! In fact, it is an ancient cliché used by the Democrats for the last 6o years. It is just a phrase that sounds good. How about copying Japanese schools or private the private prep schools that are only available to the rich?

Do you know why you quit teaching? You quit because teaching children that come from a dysfunctional home is nearly impossible.
By late
#15123497
Julian658 wrote:


That is the mother of all cliches! In fact, it is an ancient cliché used by the Democrats for the last 6o years. It is just a phrase that sounds good. How about copying Japanese schools or private the private prep schools that are only available to the rich?

Do you know why you quit teaching? You quit because teaching children that come from a dysfunctional home is nearly impossible.



Japanese schools burn their kids out. They are terrible.

What I want do is not far from what private schools do.

As far as cliches go, don't take it personally, 99.99% of what is said about education is utter crap. It took me years to dig through all that BS.
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