What is Fascism - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

What is Fascism?

Anti-Socialist Bulwork to protect capitalism
22
30%
Institutional totalitarian
24
32%
Fanaticism
2
3%
Mercantilism
No votes
0%
Socialism
7
9%
Other (please elaborate)
19
26%
By Sivad
#15123769
Fascism is the love of the state for the people. Communism is the love of the people for the state(perfect possession).

But then there are people who are perfectly possessed and never show up on the doorstep of an exorcist because they want to be possessed. They want to remain possessed.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123791
annatar1914 wrote:Capitalists divert any potential forces subversive to their social order by re-defining subversion into something that makes their social order even stronger. Supporting Non-White and White Nazis and splitting up the working people by race is one of those diversions for example, because racialists don't do Socialism.

IN the USA most huge corporations favor BLM. Paying lip service or virtue signaling works for them.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15123796
Julian658 wrote:IN the USA most huge corporations favor BLM. Paying lip service or virtue signaling works for them.


Fascist goons are fascist goons, and they have to be paid. Race keeps Class out of the equation.
#15123805
Sivad wrote:Which nation is less racist? America goes out of its way to not be racist. American society is the most explicitly antiracist society on earth. America is aggressively antiracist. That's not to say there isn't racism within American society but no country has gone to the antiracist extremes American society has. America is easily hands down the least racist country in the world.


New Zealand? Canada? Britain?

Most countries are more racist than the US, but among western developed countries I don't think the US ranks among the top.
#15123807
Pants-of-dog wrote:Tgis seems like a false equivalence.

Proto-fascists currently occupy some of the highest positions of power in the USA and can access state equipment and forces for violence, while the left has no militaristic arm at all and no political power.

To argue that the threat comes from both is extremely unrealistic.

I agree that federally right now you have alt-right white nationalists controlling the White House/executive branch, and this is dangerous.

In the meantime, far-left extremists have been burning and looting cities. In far-left cities like Seattle and Portland the mayor and city council does nothing but enable them. California is going straight bonkers. Our academic institutions are being co-opted by far-left activists. There is no argument to be made that both the far-right and far-left have been on a major rise the last 5 to 7 years or so.

Of course since you're a far-left ideologue you'll obviously disagree with me and defend the far-left as usual. I can harp all day how bad the far-right are, it doesn't matter to you. Your biases make you unable to look at things objectively, you will keep giving the far left a pass because they pursue your aims. This changes nothing.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123810
annatar1914 wrote:Fascist goons are fascist goons, and they have to be paid. Race keeps Class out of the equation.

I still think the left profits to a much greater degree from classism and racism. The existence of the left is based on those "isms".
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123811
Unthinking Majority wrote:New Zealand? Canada? Britain?

Most countries are more racist than the US, but among western developed countries I don't think the US ranks among the top.


The term racism makes no sense to me. Racism implies superiority of one group over another. I rather use the term racial bigotry or discrimination.
Last edited by Julian658 on 30 Sep 2020 01:08, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123816
Pants-of-dog wrote:
Proto-fascists currently occupy some of the highest positions of power in the USA and can access state equipment and forces for violence, while the left has no militaristic arm at all and no political power.

To argue that the threat comes from both is extremely unrealistic.


POD:

Nearly 100% of people agree that it is wrong to advocate ethnic nationalism on the right. That is a sharply demarcated NO-GO ZONE. Sadly, there is no equivalent NO-GO ZONE on the left. The more to the left the greater the virtue. That is why the extreme left is so much more dangerous------------ they feel they always have the high moral ground.

“Beware the self-righteous man, for he will destroy the world many times over before he sees his folly.”
#15123825
Julian658 wrote:POD:

Nearly 100% of people agree that it is wrong to advocate ethnic nationalism on the right. That is a sharply demarcated NO-GO ZONE. Sadly, there is no equivalent NO-GO ZONE on the left. The more to the left the greater the virtue. That is why the extreme left is so much more dangerous------------ they feel they always have the high moral ground.

“Beware the self-righteous man, for he will destroy the world many times over before he sees his folly.”

Imagine if the mayor of Nashville, TN allowed far-right rioters to burn down buildings and loot businesses and block traffic in protest of ie: Obamacare, and refused to lay charges, refused to bring in the National Guard if Obama wanted them to go in.

Anyways you're wasting your breath, might as well talk to a wall.
#15123828
@Pants-of-dog do you think some of the far-left protestors in Seattle, Portland etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core (like CHOP)? Yes or no.

POD do you think far-right protestors etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core ? Yes or no.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15123836
According to Oxford.

fascism noun
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
[uncountable]
​(also Fascism)an extreme right-wing political system or attitude that is in favour of strong central government, aggressively promoting your own country or race above others, and that does not allow any opposition.

Question answered.
By Rich
#15123837
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that Trump was elected because he was openly racist.

:lol: You do believe or at least pretend to believe some nonsense.
Trump narrowed Clinton's margin compared to Obama by seven points among blacks and African-Americans, eight points among Latinos, and 11 points among Asian-Americans Meanwhile, Trump increased his lead with non-Hispanic white voters through one percent over Mitt Romney’s performance

Trump actually helped heal the racial political divide in America. The irony is that the group that Trump failed to win over, the group that Trump actually lost ground in was rich White people. Essentially Trump's problem was that snobby rich White people looked down their nose at Trump. you really do have to laugh. Rich so called White people think they know better than so Called black and Latino people whether Trump is being racist towards them.

Calling Trump a racist is a way for rich White people to dress up their anti Trump snobbery as some sort of principled opposition.
#15123864
If someone wishes to argue that Michelle Bachelet or any other political figure is a fascist or shows fascist behaviour, they are welcome to do so.

If someone wishes to provide evidence that socialists are secretly controlled by billionaire Jews, they are free to provide evidence. Please note that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fabrication.

———————-

@Julian658

You are obviously trying very hard to take this thread off topic.

Can you name a single fascist nation that gave workers control of the means of production?

Do you know what I mean by “the means of production”?

Julian658 wrote:POD:

Nearly 100% of people agree that it is wrong to advocate ethnic nationalism on the right. That is a sharply demarcated NO-GO ZONE.


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=rers20


    ABSTRACT
    In this article, we explore the ethno-nationalist populism of Donald Trump’s Twitter communication during the 2016 presidential campaign. We draw on insights from ethno-symbolism – a perspective within nationalism studies – to analyse all 5,515 tweets sent by Trump during the campaign. We find that ethno-nationalist and populist themes were by far the most important component of Trump’s tweets, and that these themes built upon long-standing myths and symbols of an ethnic conception of American identity. In sum, Trump’s tweets depicted a virtuous white majority being threatened by several groups of immoral outsiders, who were identified by their foreignness, their religion, and their self-interestedness. The struggle against these groups was framed as a mission to restore America to a mythical golden age – to “Make America Great Again.”

So Trump often uses ethnic nationalism as a theme in his Twitter writing, and his supporters either do not see it or accept it. And this use of ethnic nationalist themes helps him get support. So his advocacy of ethnic nationalism is seen as a good thing by his supporters and definitely not seen as a “NO GO ZONE”.
————————-

Unthinking Majority wrote:I agree that federally right now you have alt-right white nationalists controlling the White House/executive branch, and this is dangerous.


And yet we see the US public not doing a thing about it. Thye even let Trump get away with ignoring congressional oversight.

In the meantime, far-left extremists have been burning and looting cities. In far-left cities like Seattle and Portland the mayor and city council does nothing but enable them. California is going straight bonkers. Our academic institutions are being co-opted by far-left activists. There is no argument to be made that both the far-right and far-left have been on a major rise the last 5 to 7 years or so.

Of course since you're a far-left ideologue you'll obviously disagree with me and defend the far-left as usual. I can harp all day how bad the far-right are, it doesn't matter to you. Your biases make you unable to look at things objectively, you will keep giving the far left a pass because they pursue your aims. This changes nothing.


This is off topic, mostly incorrect, and a personal attack. Ignored.

Unthinking Majority wrote:Imagine if the mayor of Nashville, TN allowed far-right rioters to burn down buildings and loot businesses and block traffic in protest of ie: Obamacare, and refused to lay charges, refused to bring in the National Guard if Obama wanted them to go in.

Anyways you're wasting your breath, might as well talk to a wall.


Right wingers did take over and vandalise an area for a while a few ears ago. They even shot a cop. The only person who was charged was the guy who shot a cop despite the fact that they threatened some people and broke many laws.

The cops let a young man who killed someone walk right by them despite the fact that he was holding the murder weapon and people were telling the cops to arrest him.

Another cop killed a black man in broad daylight in front of witnesses and other coos just kept civilians away during that time.

A convoy of care drove into a city and shot protesters with paintballs. No one was charged.

You have the Boogaloo Bots shooting cops and Trump turning around and accusing rioters of burning down cities, i.e. the same accusations you make.

The main difference between these actual crimes I listed and the vague threats of Antifa that you bring up (other than the obvious fact that mine are real while your fears are not) is that all of these actions have the support of the White House, or at least a lack of condemnation.

Unthinking Majority wrote:@Pants-of-dog do you think some of the far-left protestors in Seattle, Portland etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core (like CHOP)? Yes or no.

POD do you think far-right protestors etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core ? Yes or no.


Assume the worst of me, if you wish. You can allow yourself to think that I am an evil anarchist, arsonist, thief, jaywalker, and oppressor.

Please note that even if I am all of these things, all my arguments are still just as right as if I were a perfect angel.
#15123870
Pants-of-dog wrote:The main difference between these actual crimes I listed and the vague threats of Antifa that you bring up (other than the obvious fact that mine are real while your fears are not) is that all of these actions have the support of the White House, or at least a lack of condemnation.

Antifa et al aren't making vague threats, they're setting fire to cars and buildings, looting businesses etc. In far-left jurisdictions like Portland the city government allows them to do it and does little to stop them, and even de-fangs police so they can't stop them. So your claim that the far-left has no power is false. This is proven on the news every night. The far right and far left are both a danger to the US. I'm not saying nor have I ever said they're equally a threat. They use different tactics and have different goals. Obviously having an apologist in the White House is different than having an apologist in the Mayor's office.

Assume the worst of me, if you wish. You can allow yourself to think that I am an evil anarchist, arsonist, thief, jaywalker, and oppressor.

Please note that even if I am all of these things, all my arguments are still just as right as if I were a perfect angel.

I'm not accusing you of being anything. Please answer the questions:

1. Do you think some of the far-left protestors in Seattle, Portland etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core (like CHOP)? Yes or no.

2. POD do you think far-right protestors etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core ? Yes or no.
By wat0n
#15123873
Pants-of-dog wrote:If someone wishes to argue that Michelle Bachelet or any other political figure is a fascist or shows fascist behaviour, they are welcome to do so.


Was what she did (purge people for their purported lack of loyalty) when starting her second administration an example of "fascist behavior"? You seem to have implied so when Trump did it, so it's a fair question.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123912
Pants-of-dog wrote:If someone wishes to argue that Michelle Bachelet or any other political figure is a fascist or shows fascist behaviour, they are welcome to do so.

If someone wishes to provide evidence that socialists are secretly controlled by billionaire Jews, they are free to provide evidence. Please note that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a fabrication.

———————-

@Julian658

You are obviously trying very hard to take this thread off topic.

Can you name a single fascist nation that gave workers control of the means of production?

Do you know what I mean by “the means of production”?


POD, stop the strawmen. I am not defending fascism and I am no fan of Trump.

The question that begs an answer is why you defend communism which is even worse than fascism. Are you willing to condemn communism? Yes or No?
User avatar
By Godstud
#15123923
Socialism and Communism are not Fascism, no matter how you might want to twist definitions to suit your own narrative.
By Rich
#15123930
Pants-of-dog wrote:Can you name a single fascist nation that gave workers control of the means of production?

Can you name a single Communist country that gave workers control of the means of production? Within hours, within hours of seizing power Lenin was starting to take on the power of the Rail Workers Union. Lenin hobbled the power of the trade Unions, then he moved on to the factory committees. In the Spring and Summer of 1918 the results of the elections to the Soviets of every middle and large city under Bolshevik control were overthrown and their executive committees reconstituted.

First the Bolsheviks suppressed all the parties and groups of the right and centre and then they turned on the left and the groups popular with manual workers. They banned the Right SRs, the mainstream Mensheviks, the Anarchists, the Left SRs, the Menshevik internationalists and the Maknovists. They suppressed the power of the non Russian Bolshevik parties and they suppressed the speech of the few token manual workers in the party leadership like Shilapnikov.

The October Soviet Revolution is possibly the greatest joke in history. It was a coup not a revolution. It was anti Soviet not pro Soviet and it didn't even take place in October.

Meanwhile under Franco who certainly was friends of fascists even if some would argue he wasn't a fascist by a strict definition, there was actually the growth of a serious worker coop movement.
By Pants-of-dog
#15123932
Unthinking Majority wrote:Antifa et al aren't making vague threats, they're setting fire to cars and buildings, looting businesses etc. In far-left jurisdictions like Portland the city government allows them to do it and does little to stop them, and even de-fangs police so they can't stop them. So your claim that the far-left has no power is false. This is proven on the news every night. The far right and far left are both a danger to the US. I'm not saying nor have I ever said they're equally a threat. They use different tactics and have different goals. Obviously having an apologist in the White House is different than having an apologist in the Mayor's office.


All of this is off topic. And I see that you agree that the right has state support while the left does not, so even if we were to decide to belive in the Antifa bogeyman, it wiuld still not be as great a threat as this proto-fascism.

I'm not accusing you of being anything. Please answer the questions:

1. Do you think some of the far-left protestors in Seattle, Portland etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core (like CHOP)? Yes or no.

2. POD do you think far-right protestors etc should be allowed to burn down buildings, loot businesses, block traffic, and assume control part of a downtown core ? Yes or no.


Imagine I answer these questions as you would: with the uncritical acceptance of the average conservative. Please note that this would still make my arguments just as correct.

Also these questions have nothing to do with fascism.

————————

@Julian658

If you cannot show that fascists give workers the means of production m then you cannot show that fascism is the same as socialism.

All your comments about communism and racism are off topic.

————————

What a weird thread.

Every time someone trues to discuss fascism, you two immediately start with how the left are rioting and causing oppression, blablabla.

Stay on topic or make your own thread where you talk about how the left is scaring you.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123934
Godstud wrote:Socialism and Communism are not Fascism, no matter how you might want to twist definitions to suit your own narrative.

I recommend this book: Both systems are equally dangerous!
Image

You posted above:
FASCISM: an extreme right-wing political system or attitude that is in favour of strong central government, aggressively promoting your own country or race above others, and that does not allow any opposition.


Here is communism:
COMMUNISM: an extreme left-wing political system or attitude that is in favour of strong central government, aggressively promoting a proletariat society that does not allow any opposition.

Not a whole lot of difference other than the left and right origin. They both share an authoritarian oppressive government,
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