"Propaganda, Facts and Fake News" - Page 24 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15085885
About the recent China-bashing in USA media :

1. Fiction's most important function is to find easy scapegoats to important and complex problems
(that's why fiction feels so good; the "answers" are so obvious and easy to digest)

2. When the going get tough, the tough scapegoat
(toughness isn't the same thing as wisdom, which is what is needed to actually solve a problem)
#15085890
QatzelOk wrote:About the recent China-bashing in USA media :

1. Fiction's most important function is to find easy scapegoats to important and complex problems
(that's why fiction feels so good; the "answers" are so obvious and easy to digest)

2. When the going get tough, the tough scapegoat
(toughness isn't the same thing as wisdom, which is what is needed to actually solve a problem)


It is definitely true that the United States uses its media as a weapon. There are foreign wars that have been fought over this exact thing.

However, the Chinese Communists are even more egregious offenders when it comes to media lies and there is far less accountability over them, meaning that their tyranny generally outstrips those of the softer, kinder Western leaders who have to double as demagogues.
#15085968
Verv wrote:... the United States uses its media as a weapon. ...

...the Chinese Communists are even more egregious offenders ...

"We're bad, but they're even worse" is standard Operating Propaganda for empires.

You need to prove your claim with numbers, because USA media is a thousand times larger in reach than Chinese media. Hard to believe that the Chinese media is doing anything except fighting fire with fire (against the biggest and most important liars in the West).
#15086037
QatzelOk wrote:"We're bad, but they're even worse" is standard Operating Propaganda for empires.

You need to prove your claim with numbers, because USA media is a thousand times larger in reach than Chinese media. Hard to believe that the Chinese media is doing anything except fighting fire with fire (against the biggest and most important liars in the West).


Oh, don't get me wrong! I will not defend American empire and the American media establishment. This is why I am a President Trump supporter, although now a very tepid one. I feel that anything which upsets the normal status of the operation is pretty good.

We just disagree about how we want this resolved.

I am a techno-agrarian traditionalist, and you are coming at this from the leftward angle, but here's the beauty of it...

If I get what I want, I will help give you what you want, and I know you'd do the same for me, and while there are undesirable extremists on the fringes of left & right who would use it as an opportunity to oppress others, we need to respect each other from a distance and give each other space to fight the power 2gether.
#15093489
Zionist Nationalist wrote:China is an awful Orwellian state they ruined their own reputation by themselves US didnt need to do much beside show the obvious facts about China and what they are doing


Thanks for adding to the propaganda in this thread, dude who lives in a racist military state.

While there is much demonisation of China in the West, there is also love for China from various states, especially during this pandemic where China has promoted solidarity around the world, including towards the sick Empire which demonises and threatens it.
Last edited by skinster on 22 May 2020 20:48, edited 1 time in total.
#15093552
skinster wrote:Thanks for adding to the propaganda in this thread.


I am afraid this is one of the worst cases of "a robber calling someone else a robber" (賊喊捉賊 in Chinese).

ZN's post is obviously personal opinion.

This person who accused him, on the other hand, often posts strongly biased Tweets without adding any personal opinion, apparently to convince others that the majority are on the side he supports, which is false. In fact, just before ZN's post we see 3 consecutive such posts.

It is ridiculous to accuse someone else's personal opinion with no influence as propaganda, especially when the accuser is himself making frequent selective posting, which is effectively propaganda.
#15093918
Zionist Nationalist wrote:China is an awful Orwellian state ...[/img]

Was China created in 1948?

If so, then the link with George Orwell's book "1984" is striking.
#15093944
QatzelOk wrote:Was China created in 1948?

If so, then the link with George Orwell's book "1984" is striking.

That date is pretty close to the time the Chinese Communist Party gained full control over China.

It was founded in 1921, chiefly by Chen Duxiu and Li Dazhao. The party grew quickly, and by 1949 it had driven the Kuomintang (KMT)'s Nationalist Government from mainland China to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War, leading to the establishment of the People's Republic of China. It also controls the country's armed forces, the People's Liberation Army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China
#15094197
Hindsite wrote:That date is pretty close to the time the Chinese Communist Party gained full control over China.

It was founded in 1921, chiefly by Chen Duxiu and Li Dazhao. The party grew quickly, and by 1949 it had driven the Kuomintang (KMT)'s Nationalist Government from mainland China to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War, leading to the establishment of the People's Republic of China. It also controls the country's armed forces, the People's Liberation Army.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

So you are suggesting that George Orwell, while working in Burma doing torture for the British Empire, followed what was happening on China with his binoculars, and then wrote a book about their sophisticated PR and propaganda techniques and where they would ultimately lead.

I don't buy it. He was far more familiar with the oligarchs of Europe and their brutality and scheming (what the victims of propaganda media call "conspiracy theories").
#15094205
QatzelOk wrote: George Orwell, while working in Burma doing torture for the British Empire,


Orwell wrote a novel about his experiences in Burma that directly attacked the "corruption and imperial bigotry" of British colonialism.

"I had already made up my mind that imperialism was an evil thing... I was all for the Burmese and all against their oppressors, the British."

"when the white man turns tyrant it is his own freedom that he destroys"
#15094222
Sivad wrote:"I had already made up my mind that imperialism was an evil thing... I was all for the Burmese and all against their oppressors, the British."


Unfortunately the Burmese did not fare very well after independence. The same can be said for Chinese.

For the latter's case it can be argued that British Imperialism is actually better.


QatzelOk wrote:I don't buy it. He was far more familiar with the oligarchs of Europe and their brutality and scheming (what the victims of propaganda media call "conspiracy theories").


This statement is made as if non-Europeans don't engage in propaganda.

I have to say such mindset needs to fuck off.

Everyone engages in some kind of propaganda, the only difference is that non-Europeans (e.g. Chinese / North Koreans) often engage in propaganda without some convincing work backing them up.
#15094320
QatzelOk wrote:So you are suggesting that George Orwell, while working in Burma doing torture for the British Empire, followed what was happening on China with his binoculars, and then wrote a book about their sophisticated PR and propaganda techniques and where they would ultimately lead.

I don't buy it. He was far more familiar with the oligarchs of Europe and their brutality and scheming (what the victims of propaganda media call "conspiracy theories").

No, I was not suggesting anything like that. I was just trying to give you more information that you might use to support your ridiculous comment, theory, or whatever you wish to call it to see how far you would go with it.
#15094638
Patrickov wrote:This statement is made as if non-Europeans don't engage in propaganda.

I have to say such mindset needs to fuck off.

Everyone engages in some kind of propaganda, the only difference is that non-Europeans (e.g. Chinese / North Koreans) often engage in propaganda without some convincing work backing them up.

So what you're saying is that everyone lies, but Western liars do it better. :eh:

Likewise, with genocide. Everyone does genocide, but Westerners genocide better. :eh:

Doing things better gives the West the right to do any atrocity (that everyone else is doing). If anyone is selling heroin to children out there, the West can do it better!

(Along with doing racism better than anyone, partially by underestimating the ethics and capacities of its victims)
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