[QatzelOk]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately that blame the wolf-like behavior of America's criminal class (government, banksters, corporations, CIA) on the sheep-like qualities of the American public. (example)

But are Americans really sheep-like compared to other nations?

Many industries have relocated from the US, at least partially because of labor unions, decent wages and environmental regulations. All of these acquired rights and benefits suggest that the USA has a lower level of sheep-ishness than the nations where industry has re-located.

1. So which nations, or types nations are the most sheep-like?

2. And what are some good criteria for measuring international sheep-ishness? What are some neutral variables that could be used for cross-cultural comparisons?

[Sivad]

I've been reading a lot of articles lately that blame the wolf-like behavior of America's criminal class (government, banksters, corporations, CIA) on the sheep-like qualities of the American public. (example)

But are Americans really sheep-like compared to other nations?

I don't know about other nations but Americans are definitely complicit to some extent.

A lot of it can also be explained by the moist robot hypothesis which says that people are basically "programmable meat" under the influence "wizards".

[foxdemon]

I would say that New Zealand is most sheep-liking of all nations.

[anna]

And what are some good criteria for measuring international sheep-ishness? What are some neutral variables that could be used for cross-cultural comparisons?

Having gotten that out of my system:

One variable: The level of authoritarianism in the culture, whether political, social or religious in nature.

[Godstud]

The West... for sure. I am going to nominate USA, simply because of Trump.

Also:


I absolutely refuse to purchase something that is seen as popular before it's even out! Fuck THAT!
I have a $150 phone that's lasted 4 years. Still works like a damn so no end is in sight.

Countries really need to ask more questions, instead of thinking that questioning the government is treason. That's sheer idiocy in a democracy.

[Decky]

Wales, definetly Wales.

[QatzelOk]

Wales, definetly Wales.

Yes, but why Wales?

Are the Welsh even bigger social conformists than Americans?

Is the Welsh governing system more totalitarian than Scotland or Northern Ireland?

One variable: The level of authoritarianism in the culture, whether political, social or religious in nature.

Interesting. But what are the symptoms - the tell-tale signs - of social authoritarianism (since the others are fairly obvious). The monotony of the built environment? The engineered lack of community?

[Decky]

Yes, but why Wales?

Are the Welsh even bigger social conformists than Americans?

Is the Welsh governing system more totalitarian than Scotland or Northern Ireland?

They shag sheep.

[skinster]

Your ability to get straight to the point is impressive, Decky. I applaud you.

[anna]

Interesting. But what are the symptoms - the tell-tale signs - of social authoritarianism (since the others are fairly obvious). The monotony of the built environment? The engineered lack of community?

The social expectation of, and individual drive of obedience to (their designated) authority.

For example:

Right Wing Authoritarian personalities exhibit a high degree of adherence to social norms, social constructs and structures, and show higher levels of loyalty to their perceived-as-legitimate in-group authority figures. A lot of that correlates to higher religiosity and the necessity of obedience to higher spiritual authority, which is frequently (think evangelicals and the Moral Majority) interwoven with and obedience implicitly transferred to a higher political authority which adheres (panders to) those cultural and spiritual beliefs (the culture war - take back our country - MAGA - maranatha etc.).

[QatzelOk]

The social expectation of, and individual drive of obedience to (their designated) authority.

For example:

Right Wing Authoritarian personalities exhibit a high degree of adherence to social norms, social constructs and structures, and show higher levels of loyalty to their perceived-as-legitimate in-group authority figures. A lot of that correlates to higher religiosity and the necessity of obedience to higher spiritual authority, which is frequently (think evangelicals and the Moral Majority) interwoven with and obedience implicitly transferred to a higher political authority which adheres (panders to) those cultural and spiritual beliefs (the culture war - take back our country - MAGA - maranatha etc.).

Good example. But what about Left Wing Authoritarian behavior? Does this involve airbrushing history like Stalin did or like the American left are doing with statues of Robert E Lee? What else does the Authoritarian Fake Liberal Class do to restrict everyone's ability to leave their sheep pen enclosure?

[Politiks]

Obviously the Muslim world is the sheep of sheep. At least USA's BS is done by their own corrupted psychotic mind while the Muslim world follows a book written 1.500 years ago. You can't get more sheep than Islamic countries.

The least sheep nations are Switzerland, Paraguay, Brazil, Ecuador, Cuba, Hungary, Russia, New Zealand, Argentina, Iceland. Those countries walk at the beat of their own drums

I've been reading a lot of articles lately that blame the wolf-like behavior of America's criminal class (government, banksters, corporations, CIA) on the sheep-like qualities of the American public. (example)

But are Americans really sheep-like compared to other nations?

Many industries have relocated from the US, at least partially because of labor unions, decent wages and environmental regulations. All of these acquired rights and benefits suggest that the USA has a lower level of sheep-ishness than the nations where industry has re-located.

1. So which nations, or types nations are the most sheep-like?

2. And what are some good criteria for measuring international sheep-ishness? What are some neutral variables that could be used for cross-cultural comparisons?

[QatzelOk]

Obviously the Muslim world is the sheep of sheep.

Then why were Libya and Iraq bombed by NATO shepherds? Answer: because they were too non-Sheep-like.

At least USA's BS is done by their own corrupted psychotic mind while the Muslim world follows a book written 1.500 years ago. You can't get more sheep than Islamic countries.

Americans get their (lack of) opinions from top-down media corporations. Baaaaah.

The least sheep nations are Switzerland, Paraguay, Brazil, Ecuador, Cuba, Hungary, Russia, New Zealand, Argentina, Iceland. Those countries walk at the beat of their own drums

I would add Iran, Iraq, Syria, Tunisia, Palestine, Libya and Egypt to the list. And many First Nations.

[Rancid]

We have the US covered. Has anyone said China yet?

ok, I'll say China.

[anna]

Good example. But what about Left Wing Authoritarian behavior? Does this involve airbrushing history like Stalin did or like the American left are doing with statues of Robert E Lee? What else does the Authoritarian Fake Liberal Class do to restrict everyone's ability to leave their sheep pen enclosure?

I studied right-wing authoritarian personalities, there was no left-wing equivalent personality.

I think you're conflating the authoritarian tendency of the person (voluntary, based on their beliefs) with the authoritarianism of the state (historically involuntarily imposed).

From my experience in interacting with right-wing authoritarians, they would enthusiastically welcome a theocratic state, providing it was their theocracy, of course. I'm thinking of many domininionist-minded Evangelicals and a couple of Catholic monarchists I've encountered online. The state beliefs would align with their beliefs, which is what many of them thought they'd be putting into play (a la Steve Bannon and the creepy Stephen Miller and Sebastian Gorka) with a Trump presidency.

When I look for a left-wing equivalent in a Mao/Stalin/Kim regime, I see top-down imposition of the state enforcing through fear and not belief and it doesn't seem the same. You bring up the statues, and yet perhaps don't remember that it was the Charlottesville city council (elected officials) which voted to remove confederate statues. It's not left-wing authoritarianism at work if a duly-elected council makes decisions they were voted into office to make.

[Politiks]

Then why were Libya and Iraq bombed by NATO shepherds? Answer: because they were too non-Sheep-like.

[color=#000080]You think there's only 1 block of sheep? Iran became a sheep in 1979 and Libya was a sheep of Iran. They all sheep but they don't sheep together
[/color]

Americans get their (lack of) opinions from top-down media corporations. Baaaaah.
Corporations they created, so is better than following opinions of a psycho-pedo prophet


I would add Iran, Iraq, Syria, Tunisia, Palestine, Libya and Egypt to the list. And many First Nations

You would, I wouldn't. Egypt and Palestine are parasite countries, 2 of the worst countries around, actually Palestine isn't even a country but annoys as much. Iran and Syria are different cases because Iran is Persian and only converted to shit mode Islamic in 79 and Syria isn't a Muslim country even if many Muslims are Syrians. The Christian DNA is still there. I would add Australia, Ireland, Japan, Singapore and Portugal/China to a certain extent, into the non-sheep group

.

[Politiks]

The social expectation of, and individual drive of obedience to (their designated) authority.

For example:

Right Wing Authoritarian personalities exhibit a high degree of adherence to social norms, social constructs and structures, and show higher levels of loyalty to their perceived-as-legitimate in-group authority figures. A lot of that correlates to higher religiosity and the necessity of obedience to higher spiritual authority, which is frequently (think evangelicals and the Moral Majority) interwoven with and obedience implicitly transferred to a higher political authority which adheres (panders to) those cultural and spiritual beliefs (the culture war - take back our country - MAGA - maranatha etc.).

I disagree because South America proves you wrong. From Bolivar, to Chavez, to Vargas and Eva Peron, all Catholic and Center or Left wing inclined. Take Venezuela and that failed Communist/Bolivarian regime, very Catholic. Take Cuba , also very Catholic.

You're seeing the world through "Protestant lens" basically the English spoken world. The first countries to divide the world were Portugal and Spain, the regimes created didn't differ much in terms of culture. The real division happened when Portugal, Spain and UK divided the world, because Protestantism and Catholicism produce 2 different cultures.

Cultures are basically divided in 2 categories: Social and individual. Protestant usually generates individual cultures while Catholicism tends to form Social cultures (Italy, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Spain).

[anna]

I disagree because South America proves you wrong.

I'd agree with you on South American, etc. Catholics, but that doesn't make me wrong. It means you're comparing South America to the U.S., which is the group I was thinking about. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

You're seeing the world through "Protestant lens" basically the English spoken world.

Well, yes. Again, see above.

The first countries to divide the world were Portugal and Spain, the regimes created didn't differ much in terms of culture. The real division happened when Portugal, Spain and UK divided the world, because Protestantism and Catholicism produce 2 different cultures.

Cultures are basically divided in 2 categories: Social and individual. Protestant usually generates individual cultures while Catholicism tends to form Social cultures (Italy, Portugal, Brazil, Argentina, Spain).

I'd categorize the two groups as individualistic and collectivistic, but you've completely left out the collectivist societies of Asia, which are (in majority) neither Catholic nor Protestant.

Also I'd categorize American Catholics as very individualistic, products of the overall heritage of American individualism and exceptionalism handed down from the original English colonies, which pretty much dominate, regardless of Spanish or French settlements in the south and west.

[QatzelOk]

I think you're conflating the authoritarian tendency of the person (voluntary, based on their beliefs) with the authoritarianism of the state (historically involuntarily imposed).

Not really.

But I would argue that a lot of sheep-like qualities are imposed by the group and not just from the top. Sheep are influenced by their shepherd, but also by their percieved need to be just like the other sheep, which, in human societies, is imposed by everyone around you.

So leftwing sheep-like behavior may have more of a tendency to be driven by peer pressure, at least when they arise in non leftwing-run states.

[The Immortal Goon]

Does this involve airbrushing history like Stalin did or like the American left are doing with statues of Robert E Lee?

Exactly. I'm sure you'd agree that if the Palestinians get their own country they should leave up all the Israeli iconography, maybe even change their language to Hebrew, to remind them of their glorious history