[Rancid]

I've literally sat and watched them pack for their trips back to Cuba, they would smuggle toiletries to their family by like sewing toothbrushes into hats and shit.

I saw a lot of this growing up too. My two childhood best friends (still meet up with them on every Christmas) are both Cuban.

[Sivad]

Any nation that has 60% of the people living in abysmal poverty should be socialist. IN this instance the poor have NOTHING to lose.

gulag socialism is a slight step up from caudillo capitalism. Assholes like Fidel Castro don't get special hero points for knocking over the caudillo capitalist regime and setting up their own authoritarian regime that abuses the people only slightly less than the old boss did.

a ranking of these systems from worst to best goes caudillo capitalism, gulag socialism, liberal democratic capitalism, social democracy, libertarian socialism(real socialism). So the only good thing about Cuban gulagism is that it isn't caudillo capitalism but it's still fucking horrible and I don't see why the Cuban regime should get credit just for not being the absolute worst system possible, that's an absurdly low standard to go by.

[skinster]

Cool, you learnt the word caudillo. I expect to hear it a lot from now on.

I probably know more Cubans personally than all the Cubans you have ever even casually met. My next door neighbor growing up was Cuban, her mom was from Cuba. I used to stay at her mom's place whenever I went to Queens. I used to run with a Cuban kid from Jamaica Ave. I know boatloads of Cubans from Cuba, I know their children, I know their whole families. And all of them love to tell anyone that will listen how fucked up Cuba is and what a piece of shit Castro is. I've literally sat and watched them pack for their trips back to Cuba, they would smuggle toiletries to their family by like sewing toothbrushes into hats and shit.

The question is how anyone who has actually been to Cuba could possibly remain so totally oblivious to all that poverty and oppression?

The answer is in going to Cuba and seeing for yourself, rather than repeatedly displaying yourself as typically ignorant American who thinks he knows it all.

Lol at your constant hatred of a tiny island your country has embargoed and hate-writes about in its media. If you work on not sounding unhinged so regularly, you might be able to get a job at your state dept.

[Julian658]

gulag socialism is a slight step up from caudillo capitalism. Assholes like Fidel Castro don't get special hero points for knocking over the caudillo capitalist regime and setting up their own authoritarian regime that abuses the people only slightly less than the old boss did.

a ranking of these systems from worst to best goes caudillo capitalism, gulag socialism, liberal democratic capitalism, social democracy, libertarian socialism(real socialism). So the only good thing about Cuban gulagism is that it isn't caudillo capitalism but it's still fucking horrible and I don't see why the Cuban regime should get credit just for not being the absolute worst system possible, that's an absurdly low standard to go by.

I do not disagree, but socialism is tempting for anyone in the gutter.

[QatzelOk]

You're commenting that there's less of a type of technology (cars) in Cuba on the roads, which makes it easier to use the type of technology you want to use on the roads (bikes).

That's not the only technology that's missing.

Besides there not being cars, there are virtually no lawn mowers, whipper snippers, backyard gazebo projects, nail guns or hand saws. This means that there is virtually no sound pollution other than humans, animals, and salsa music.

With far less noise pollution there, everyone is happier and healthier. In capitalist over-developed nations, the noise pollution is hellish for the majority - in both our ugly suburbs (which Cuba also doesn't have) and in our car-choked cities.

[skinster]

[QatzelOk]

...socialism is tempting for anyone in the gutter.

Yes, it's great for the "losers and suckers" who get stepped on by organized crime and end up living it its gutter.

I think this describes the vast majority of USA citizens right now, by the way.

[Sivad]

I think this describes the vast majority of USA citizens right now

Not even close. There's a sizeable minority living in fairly severe relative poverty and a small minority living in extreme poverty but most people here are living way better than most people have ever lived anywhere in the entire history of the world.

[QatzelOk]

... most people have ever lived anywhere in the entire history of the world.

And yet I haven't taken my vacations in the USA for 15 years because it's so boring, dangerous, and socially dysfunctional. And the suburbs where 80% of the people live are ugly as hell, and as a visitor, you don't see people - just machines gliding by parking lots.

If that's the best humanity has ever seen, then we really are a failed species.

I think you might want to verify the accuracy of this by at least travelling in the present, since you can't time travel yet. My grandfather would NOT have agreed with you that these are the best of times either.

[Sivad]

Poverty:

In 2020, in the United States, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was an annual income of US$12,760; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$26,200.


The official poverty rate in 2019 was 10.5 percent, down 1.3 percentage points from 11.8 percent in 2018. This is the fifth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 4.3 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 10.5 percent (Figure 7 and Table B-5).
The 2019 poverty rate of 10.5 percent is the lowest rate observed since estimates were initially published in 1959 (Figure 7 and Table B-5).

In 2019, there were 34.0 million people in poverty, approximately 4.2 million fewer people than 2018 (Figure 7 and Table B-1).

For all demographic groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1, poverty rates in 2019 were either lower than or not statistically different from those in 2018.

Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates declined for all race and Hispanic origin groups shown in Figure 8 and Table B-1. The poverty rate for Whites decreased 1.0 percentage point to 9.1 percent. The poverty rate for Blacks decreased by 2.0 percentage points to 18.8 percent. The poverty rate for Hispanics decreased by 1.8 percentage points to 15.7 percent. The poverty rate for Asians decreased 2.8 percentage points to 7.3 percent (Figure 8 and Tables B-1 and B-5).

Between 2018 and 2019, poverty rates for people under the age of 18 decreased 1.8 percentage points, from 16.2 percent to 14.4 percent. Poverty rates decreased 1.2 percentage points for people aged 18 to 64, from 10.7 percent to 9.4 percent. The poverty rate for people aged 65 and older decreased by 0.9 percentage points, from 9.7 percent to 8.9 percent (Figure 8 and Table B-1).

[Sivad]

so boring

The US is a big country with something for everyone. I could spend the rest of my life travelling this country without getting bored. If you can't find whatever it is you're looking to do here in America then it doesn't exist.

dangerous

The US is one of the safest countries in the world to visit.

socially dysfunctional

As opposed to what? A gulagist shithole?

And the suburbs where 80% of the people live are ugly as hell, and as a visitor, you don't see people - just machines gliding by parking lots.

Who in the fuck vacations in the suburbs?

If that's the best humanity has ever seen, then we really are a failed species.

We're an intermediate species between angel and ape, we only fail if we don't evolve into something better.

I think you might want to verify the accuracy of this by at least travelling in the present, since you can't time travel yet. My grandfather would NOT have agreed with you that these are the best of times either.

gulag denial, noble savage delusions, and heavy nostalgia for a golden age that never was, that's the fantasyland trifecta.

[Julian658]

And yet I haven't taken my vacations in the USA for 15 years because it's so boring, dangerous, and socially dysfunctional. And the suburbs where 80% of the people live are ugly as hell, and as a visitor, you don't see people - just machines gliding by parking lots.

If that's the best humanity has ever seen, then we really are a failed species.

I think you might want to verify the accuracy of this by at least travelling in the present, since you can't time travel yet. My grandfather would NOT have agreed with you that these are the best of times either.

You are one of those people that could benefit from socialism. However, you have internet, an iPad, and an iPhone. I suspect you would lose ground is a commie nation.

[Sivad]

I saw a lot of this growing up too. My two childhood best friends (still meet up with them on every Christmas) are both Cuban.

The Cubans I know didn't come from wealthy families back in Cuba either, so it's not like they hated Castro because they were living high on the hog and he took that away from them. They hated him for gulaging their families and their country. I doubt any of them had any love for Batista, they probably all would have supported major democratic and social reforms. They didn't hate Castro for overthrowing the old order, they hated Castro for the new order he imposed and for the brutality he imposed it with and used to keep it going.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

Have you watched your movie yet?

Please say yes, as it would be amusing to see you defend it.

It should be a drinking game, where the viewers take a shot of Havana Club every time the gringo asks a leading question.

[Unthinking Majority]

The US is one of the safest countries in the world to visit.

Not really. US is the most dangerous of all white western countries and it's not even close. But Cuba and the US have exactly the same homicide rate per capita. Americans like shooting people. Not as much as Venezuelans though.

Clearly there's other variables besides economic system type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory

[Sivad]

Not really. US is the most dangerous of all white western countries and it's not even close.

So then the US is in the top ten or twenty safest countries. Like I said, it's one of the safest countries in the world.

[wat0n]

Not really. US is the most dangerous of all white western countries and it's not even close. But Cuba and the US have exactly the same homicide rate per capita. Americans like shooting people. Not as much as Venezuelans though.

Clearly there's other variables besides economic system type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory

Interestingly, the US is right below Cuba in that table (when sorting from highest to lower intentional homicide rate)...

[Julian658]

Not really. US is the most dangerous of all white western countries and it's not even close. But Cuba and the US have exactly the same homicide rate per capita. Americans like shooting people. Not as much as Venezuelans though.

Clearly there's other variables besides economic system type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country,_region,_or_dependent_territory

I know quite well this may sound racist: If you remove the large urban areas from the equation America is as safe as any Western nation. Places like Baltimore and Chicago skew the numbers.

[Sivad]

I know quite well this may sound racist: If you remove the large urban areas from the equation America is as safe as any Western nation. Places like Baltimore and Chicago skew the numbers.

It's not even the cities, it's only a few blocks within each of the cities. I think it's something ridiculous like half the homocides in the US come from only 100 city blocks or something close to that. US cities are very safe, it's just certain small areas within in them that are dangerous.

[Rancid]

The Cubans I know didn't come from wealthy families back in Cuba either, so it's not like they hated Castro because they were living high on the hog and he took that away from them. They hated him for gulaging their families and their country. I doubt any of them had any love for Batista, they probably all would have supported major democratic and social reforms. They didn't hate Castro for overthrowing the old order, they hated Castro for the new order he imposed and for the brutality he imposed it with and used to keep it going.

Same here. I grew up in a poor inner city neighborhood. All the Cubans there were equally poor and uneducated like the rest of us. They too hated Castro. Some of my Cuban friends were also Afro-Cubans.

My neighborhood was mostly Dominicans and Cubans. IN the mid to late 90s, more central Americans started to move in, so now you see more people from Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala.