[Drlee]

Stormsmith, you're wrong, If a boy goes around trying to feel up girls he's committing sexual assault, which is a crime.

It's neither a normal or an acceptable thing to do.

No she is not. And look at what you did. You changed the scenario completely. Neither Stromsmith nor I are talking about a guy who "goes around trying to feel up girls". That would be a form of assault. (Actually battery but very few know the difference.)

But you know very well snapdragon; that is not what we are talking about.

You seem to want to live in a very paternal world. One where men make the laws to protect women from themselves. That is OK. We have done this for millennia. We can keep going. Never fear. We rich old white males will take care of you. (Just don't decide to have an abortion or make laws yourself.)

[One Degree]

I have an idealistic view of how the world should be if everyone were saints and I insist upon it no matter how unfair it is to real humans.

[Pants-of-dog]

This is not rocket science.

Touching women without consent is not right.

Yes, there is a difference between touching a woman’s ass at a party, and raping her at gunpoint in an alley. But both are wrong, and both should not be done.

[One Degree]

We are discussing where the line should be between arresting people and expecting people to handle it on their own. Some of us believe we have crossed that line.

[B0ycey]

Lets just clear the water and start from the beginning shall we.

Is it OK to grab a women's boob without consent? Yes or no?

[QatzelOk]

If you think this way, however, maybe it'd be better if you just didn't talk to women, period. Future generations will thank you.

I am using the above quote to demonstrate how the "MeToo Hysteria" thread is primarily being used to attack men in this thread. Godstud is in no way the worst in this regard, but because he is such a trend-follower and aims at always have a "normal" point of view, his opinion here demonstrates a serious problem in that our commercial culture can't seem to frame human sexuality (or human...anything else) properly.

The "men are yucky, let's smear them!" meme is so ubiquitous - thanks to commercial media - that it has changed our culture and made us less socially trusting.

Good work, Orwellian participants.

[Pants-of-dog]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/polytechniq ... -1.4207043

Polytechnique victims honoured with multiple ceremonies on 29th anniversary

Fourteen beams of light shone into the night sky from Montreal's Mount Royal Thursday evening in memory of the 14 women who died at the Ecole Polytechnique engineering school 29 years ago.
A crowd, which included Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, stood in silence atop the lookout as they attended a ceremony commemorating the victims killed on Dec. 6, 1989.
As each woman's name was announced, a new beam illuminated the night sky, the 14 forming a semi-circle around the dignitaries, victims' family members and members of the public.

....

On Dec. 6, 1989, a gunman walked into Ecole Polytechnique and killed 14 women.
The victims were:
Anne-Marie Lemay: Was in fourth-year mechanical engineering.
Anne-Marie Edward: Loved outdoor sports like skiing, diving and riding and was always surrounded by friends. Was studying chemical engineering.
Annie St-Arneault: A mechanical engineering student from La Tuque, Que., a Laurentian pulp and paper town in the upper St-Maurice River valley. Lived in a small apartment in Montreal. Her friends considered her a fine student. Was killed as she sat listening to a presentation in her last class before graduation. Had a job interview with Alcan Aluminium scheduled for the following day. Had talked about eventually getting married to the man who had been her boyfriend since she was a teenager.
Annie Turcotte: Was in her first year and lived with her brother in a small apartment near the university. Was described as gentle and athletic -- was a diver and a swimmer. Went into metallurgical engineering so she could one day help improve the environment.

Barbara Daigneault: Was to graduate at the end of the year. A teaching assistant for her father Pierre Daigneault, a mechanical engineering professor with the city's other French-language engineering school at the Université du Quebec à Montreal.
Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz: A first-year nursing student. Arrived in Montreal from Poland with her husband in 1987.
Genevieve Bergeron: Second-year scholarship student in mechanical engineering. Played the clarinet and sang in a professional choir. In her spare time played basketball and swam.
Helene Colgan: Was in her final year of mechanical engineering and planned to do master's degree. Had three job offers and was leaning toward accepting one from a Toronto-area company.
Maryse Laganiere: The only non-student killed. Worked in the budget department of the engineering school. Had recently married.
Maryse Leclair: Was in fourth-year metallurgy, had a year to go before graduation and was one of the top students in the school. Acted in plays in junior college. The first victim whose name was known and she was found by her father, Montreal police Lt. Pierre Leclair.
Maud Haviernick: A second-year student in metallurgical engineering and a graduate in environmental design from the Université du Quebec à Montreal.

Michele Richard: Was in second-year metallurgical engineering. Was presenting a paper with Haviernick when she was killed.
Nathalie Croteau: Another graduating mechanical engineer. Planned to take a two-week vacation in Cancun, Mexico, with Colgan at the end of the month.
Sonia Pelletier: The head of her class and the pride of St-Ulric, her remote birthplace in the Gaspé peninsula. Had five sisters and two brothers. Was killed the day before she was to graduate with a degree in mechanical engineering. Had a job interview lined up for the following week.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_P ... e_massacre

[One Degree]

Lets just clear the water and start from the beginning shall we.

Is it OK to grab a women's boob without consent? Yes or no?

That is not being clear at all, that is muddying the waters. It depends on the circumstances. If she is a complete stranger and I walk up and grab her boob in Walmart, then it is wrong. If we are on our third date, then it isn’t a matter for the police.

[Pants-of-dog]

In both cases, you are touching a woman without her consent.

[One Degree]

In both cases, you are touching a woman without her consent.

Yes, that was the point.

[QatzelOk]

That story just above that Pants dropped here has nothing to do with sexual predation.

Pants is just using this thread to dump "woman's issues" and look politically correct.

Which is actually worse than doing nothing.

"Hipster does good" does nothing to change the arguement in any way.

In both cases, you are touching a woman without her consent.

Shooting people isn't the same as feeling their ass.

[B0ycey]

That is not being clear at all, that is muddying the waters. It depends on the circumstances. If she is a complete stranger and I walk up and grab her boob in Walmart, then it is wrong. If we are on our third date, then it isn’t a matter for the police.

The law is designed to be objective. If it is a matter for the police, that depends on the law.

And sorry, please explain why it is ok to just grab a boob without consent after three dates. Is groping the new courting?

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, that was the point.

And in both cases, there is an argument for calling the cops.

Knowing the person before you sexually assault them is not an excuse. Most targets of rapes and sexual assaults know their assailants.

[One Degree]

The law is designed to be objective. If it is a matter for the police, that depends on the law.

And sorry, please explain why it is ok to just grab a boob without consent after three dates. Is groping the new courting?

It has already been explained repeatedly in this thread. Any person with an average sex drive who has dated should understand the difference. If you still don’t understand, then I can only offer my sympathy.

[QatzelOk]

Being confident enough to initiate intimacy, even after a failed attempt, is something that both males and females should be developing in their teens.

With MeToo, we are creating sexual frustration in youth, which will create a greater pool of soldiers for our next wars. That's why Hollywood and other media created MeToo hysteria.

If you're playing along, it's because you interact too much with commercial media. (which is part of...the text)

[B0ycey]

It has already been explained repeatedly in this thread. Any person with an average sex drive who has dated should understand the difference. If you still don’t understand, then I can only offer my sympathy.

Then Drlee is absolutely wrong to defend you and in fact is getting you very wrong. I would suggest if a women believes you sexually assaulted her after three dates then you do not know her well enough to just grope her. When you get to know someone well enough you also know what is acceptable behaviour.

[Rancid]

I'm thinking we're seeing a generation divide here.

Why would any grab their third date's boob to begin with?

[Pants-of-dog]

It has already been explained repeatedly in this thread. Any person with an average sex drive who has dated should understand the difference. If you still don’t understand, then I can only offer my sympathy.

It is never okay to touch another person in a sexual way without their consent. It does not matter if you are dating, or are in your third date, or even if you are married.

If you have ever dated or been married to a woman who is tired of breastfeeding, then you would know that.

[One Degree]

I'm thinking we're seeing a generation divide here.

Why would any grab their third date's boob to begin with? :?:

Maybe the problem is in different definitions of ‘grab’? The original argument was ‘without permission’. No, I don’t believe in asking permission from my girlfriend or wife. I expect them to tell me ‘no’ if they are not in the mood.

[Pants-of-dog]

In my dating and marriage experience, I did not need a spoken no, since I was already so familiar with then that I was able to use non-verbal cues to see if they were in the mood before any physical contact occurred.