CDC’s Own Expert Vaccine Court Witness Confirms Vaccines Can Cause Autism - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14980087
Pants-of-dog wrote: Exactly. He discussed a single case: Hannah Poling.

The other 159 cases that he discussed in that study were cases of kids with mitochondrial disorders who had autism-like symptoms.

Thank you for providing evidence that supoorts my claim.


He referenced 160 cases [at one hospital], many of which likely had the same etiology.

Additional Studies

The subtle laboratory abnormities identified in this case led us to retrospectively evaluate the laboratory records of other patients with autism. Records from the Kennedy Krieger Institute between January 1995 and September 2002 were selected. Available laboratory tests processed by the Johns Hopkins Hospital clinical laboratory were reviewed in 159 patients with autism and 94 patients of a similar age with other neurologic disorders. Patients with autism met both Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV and Childhood Autism Rating Scale criteria. Only a subset of laboratory values could be analyzed owing to sample size limitations. Liver function tests were available in a reasonable number of subjects. Serum levels of aspartate aminotransferase, but not alanine transferase, were significantly higher in autistic patients compared with control patients (autism vs control mean [standard error]: aspartate aminotransferase 36.3 [1.2] vs 29.7 [3.0]; alanine transferase 24.6 [3.0] vs 20.6 [2.5]; t-test: aspartate aminotransferase P = .00005; alanine transferase P = .22). Chi-square analysis also demonstrated that significantly more autistic patients demonstrated abnormal values for aspartate aminotransferase but not alanine transferase (autistic vs control: aspartate aminotransferase 46% vs 22%; alanine transaminase 6% vs 7%; chi-square: aspartate aminotransferase 20.8, P = .000005; alanine transaminase 0.1, P > .50). Too few laboratory values for the serume creatine kinase level were available from control subjects to directly compare this laboratory value between autistic and control patients. However, the number of abnormal serum creatine kinase level values was unusually high for the autistic group (22 of 46 [47%]; binomial probability: P < 1 ×


Zimmerman clearly stated that MMR and/or thimoseral do not cause autism. He was very clear about this.


    There is no scientific basis for a connection between measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine or mercury (Hg) intoxication and autism. Despite well-intentioned and thoughtful hypotheses and widespread beliefs about apparent connections with autism and regression, there is no sound evidence to support a causative relationship with exposure to both, or either, MMR and/or Hg. Michelle Cedillo had a thorough and normal immunology evaluation by Dr. Sudhir Gupta, showing no signs of immunodeficiency that would have precluded her from receiving or responding normally to MMR vaccine.

There. Zimmerman’s own words clearly stat8ng that the MMR/thimoseral claim is wrong.


Unreal. You're quoting the exact statement the DOJ lawyers quoted which Zimmerman calls "highly misleading" and has filed a fraud complaint over with the IG. According to Zimmerman, the shit you just tried pull here is outright fraud.


You seem to have confused the two claims.


No my shit is straight, you just struggle with complexity and nuance. I don't know if it's because you're unable or unwilling but whatever your deal is, :knife: .
#14980095
5. Thimerosal—On or Off the Table?

I don’t want to dwell on mercury, as this theory is not why HHS conceded Hannah’s case (imo). Dr. DiContanzo just wrote an interesting blog about how his opinion of mercury in vaccines has changed (http://drugs.about.com/b/2008/03/08/mer ... -shift.htm).

My opinion is that mercury is a potent neurotoxin. Therefore, don’t inject it into kids! Interestingly, basic research studies have shown that Thimerosal toxicity occurs through mitochondrial pathways. Officials point to the large epidemiology studies as proof that there is no link between thimerosal and autism. However, these studies are not powered to disprove the null hypothesis when considering that the mitochondrial autistic population may be just a small percent of the case totals. Remember that while the CDC sponsored Verstraten study is hyped as a negative study, it DID find a statistically significant increase in childhood tics in those exposed to higher doses of thimerosal.



7. Triple Hit Hypothesis—#1Underlying genetic susceptibility #2Insult must occur during specific developmental period #3 A certain vaccination or combination thereof is the environmental trigger (?vaccine component like thimerosal ?direct immune stim/fever reaction ?live virus reaction?)

Dr. Jon Poling
#14980099
ness31 wrote:I’m curious, all of the YouTube clips that you’ve posted Sivad, would they be typical of what is termed “anti-vaxxer”?



Yeah, according to the babbitts anything that challenges the official orthodoxy is a crank conspiracy theory. It doesn't matter if it's coming from top regulators or highly credentialed experts, only official pronouncements are legitimate to these clowns. There are crazy anti-vax people out there who oppose vaccination in principle, but most of the people the babbitt extremists label anti-vaxxers are reasonable people who are just pointing out the shortcomings and inconsistencies in the official science and calling for reasonable reforms like more study and a more cautious approach to immunization.

Babbitts are just bullies that have no intellectual integrity and no shame. They've made it their mission in life, for whatever reason, to lie and distort and smear on behalf of the establishment. I think ultimately they're just crazy trolls who get off on imposing rigid orthodoxy, it doesn't matter what the doctrine is just as long as it's official and is sufficiently unwarranted to require a dogmatic acceptance. They like to force people to accept things that aren't well supported by facts and evidence, they get a perverse joy from that.
#14980100
:lol: Anyone who doesn't believe your moronic conspiracy theory is a babbit. :knife: :roll: Sounds like you're just making up ad hominems because your argument doesn't actually invalidate vaccines. Insults like that are normally the last thing that people without a decent argument, resort to. Good job at invalidating any reasonable argument you might have had. :lol:

The problem with these things is that the anti-vaxxers use it to dismiss ALL vaccines as harmful, even though they aren't. So yes, they do more harm than good.
#14980103
Godstud wrote::lol: Anyone who doesn't believe your moronic conspiracy theory is a babbit.


Anyone calling this a conspiracy theory is a babbitt. You can't even say what the conspiracy theory is here, it's just some information that conflicts with your doctrinaire worldview so it must be a conspiracy theory. That's just mindless, dogmatic babbittry.
#14980104
See? You can't make a point without insulting anyone who disagrees with you. Your argument is shit by virtue of the fact you can't argue it without insulting anyone who doesn't buy your exact story.

Piss off, twat

twat
/twät/Submit
nounVULGAR SLANG
1.
a person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.
#14980112
I don't have to argue anything with an arrogant twat who can't defend his point without insulting anyone who doesn't agree 100% with him.
Last edited by Godstud on 15 Jan 2019 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
#14980113
Sivad wrote:Yeah, according to the babbitts anything that challenges the official orthodoxy is a crank conspiracy theory. It doesn't matter if it's coming from top regulators or highly credentialed experts, only official pronouncements are legitimate to these clowns. There are crazy anti-vax people out there who oppose vaccination in principle, but most of the people the babbitt extremists label anti-vaxxers are reasonable people who are just pointing out the shortcomings and inconsistencies in the official science and calling for reasonable reforms like more study and a more cautious approach to immunization.

Babbitts are just bullies that have no intellectual integrity and no shame. They've made it their mission in life, for whatever reason, to lie and distort and smear on behalf of the establishment. I think ultimately they're just crazy trolls who get off on imposing rigid orthodoxy, it doesn't matter what the doctrine is just as long as it's official and is sufficiently unwarranted to require a dogmatic acceptance. They like to force people to accept things that aren't well supported by facts and evidence, they get a perverse joy from that.


There seems to be some reasonable representation of the subject from fairly, mainstream sources at least in the US; CNN, CBS, ABC, Sinclair - I think the question that should be asked is, which mainstream media are silent and why?

I’m assuming you’re in the US which is why I’m kind of picking your brain, but would you recall anything being put out by NewsCorp? Anything owned by Murdoch? The man seems like he could get ideological ..or something..

It’s just a funny coincidence that I was watching a clip of Trump today refusing to take a question from a CNN reporter because he said it was “fake news” and I immediately thought of this thread :lol:
#14980118
ness31 wrote:There seems to be some reasonable representation of the subject from fairly, mainstream sources at least in the US; CNN, CBS, ABC, Sinclair - I think the question that should be asked is, which mainstream media are silent and why?


I haven't tracked which outlets are the more fair and reasonable but usually what happens is some prominent public health authority like Healy will publicly criticize the science and the corporate news will have them on but then they'll book like 50 babbitts to rebut the criticism and run damage control. They can't ignore the criticism completely, their job as corporate establishment shills is to control the spin, minimize the damage, and manufacture consent. And they do that very well, they got bullshit down to a science.

would you recall anything being put out by NewsCorp? Anything owned by Murdoch?




It’s just a funny coincidence that I was watching a clip of Trump today refusing to take a question from a CNN reporter because he said it was “fake news” and I immediately thought of this thread :lol:


Yeah, it's all bullshit and it's all bad for ya.



Full text of "Science Of Coercion Communication Research Psychological Warfare"


Before I read this book, I would have thought that psychological warfare was basically strong propaganda. No longer. This was the idea promoted by early US academic researchers into mass communication. Much of their work was funded by and carried out for the US military. The military had its own definition of psychological warfare.

A 1948 US Army document stated that: "Psychological warfare employs any weapon to influence the mind of the enemy. The weapons are psychological only in the effect they produce and not because of the nature of the weapons themselves. In this light, overt (white), covert (black) and gray propaganda; subversion; sabotage; special operations; guerrilla warfare; espionage; political, cultural, economic, and racial pressures are all effective weapons" (emphasis in original). So-called "special operations" include activities behind enemy lines including sabotage and assassination.

Christopher Simpson's book is about the way US government and military priorities influenced the development of US academic research into mass communication. He provides a wealth of detail into the connections. The military funded the majority of early academic research in the field. For example, the US Air Force provided at least half of the budget of the Bureau of Social Science Research in the 1950s. Military contracts supported studies at this Bureau such as the vulnerabilities of Eastern European peoples for the purposes of psychological warfare and comparisons of the effectiveness of "drugs, electroshock, violence, and other coercive techniques during interrogation of prisoners."

Academic communication researchers did classified studies for the military but also published sanitised versions in academic forums, with seldom a mention of their military sponsorship. Almost all of the key figures in the field, such as Wilbur Schramm, Hadley Cantril and Harold Lasswell, did substantial work on psychological warfare for the military in the years after World War II.

One result of the massive military sponsorship of US communication research was that the main perspectives in the field were in tune with military priorities. Specifically, both the content and method of communication research was oriented to the goals of domination and manipulation of mass audiences.
#14980132
Sivad wrote:He referenced 160 cases [at one hospital], many of which likely had the same etiology.

Additional Studies

The subtle laboratory abnormities identified in this case led us to retrospectively evaluate the laboratory records of other patients with autism. Records from the Kennedy Krieger Institute between January 1995 and September 2002 were selected. Available laboratory tests processed by the Johns Hopkins Hospital clinical laboratory were reviewed in 159 patients with autism and 94 patients of a similar age with other neurologic disorders. Patients with autism met both Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV and Childhood Autism Rating Scale criteria. Only a subset of laboratory values could be analyzed owing to sample size limitations. Liver function tests were available in a reasonable number of subjects. Serum levels of aspartate aminotransferase, but not alanine transferase, were significantly higher in autistic patients compared with control patients (autism vs control mean [standard error]: aspartate aminotransferase 36.3 [1.2] vs 29.7 [3.0]; alanine transferase 24.6 [3.0] vs 20.6 [2.5]; t-test: aspartate aminotransferase P = .00005; alanine transferase P = .22). Chi-square analysis also demonstrated that significantly more autistic patients demonstrated abnormal values for aspartate aminotransferase but not alanine transferase (autistic vs control: aspartate aminotransferase 46% vs 22%; alanine transaminase 6% vs 7%; chi-square: aspartate aminotransferase 20.8, P = .000005; alanine transaminase 0.1, P > .50). Too few laboratory values for the serume creatine kinase level were available from control subjects to directly compare this laboratory value between autistic and control patients. However, the number of abnormal serum creatine kinase level values was unusually high for the autistic group (22 of 46 [47%]; binomial probability: P < 1 ×


Yes, there were 159 cases of people with mitochondrial disorders and autism.

There were not 159 cases of kids who developed autism from vaccines.

Unreal. You're quoting the exact statement the DOJ lawyers quoted which Zimmerman calls "highly misleading" and has filed a fraud complaint over with the IG. According to Zimmerman, the shit you just tried pull here is outright fraud.


No, because Zimmerman only says it was misleading if you assume he was making a blanket statement about all vaccines.

Zimmerman is making two different statments about two different claims.

You do understand the difference between the two claims, right?

As far as I can tell, you are cinfising the two. Please show that you know the difference between the two claims.
#14980133
ness31 wrote:anything being put out by NewsCorp?


The thing about that Tucker Carlson clip is that was only the second time in ten years Kennedy was allowed on a major corporate news network to discuss the issue and Carlson didn't have him on to inform FOX viewers about the issues surrounding vaccination, he only had him on because Trump had recently questioned vaccines on the campaign trail and was taking a lot of flak for it in the MSM so Carlson had RFK on to run damage control for Trump. And If you'll remember, Trump quietly dropped the issue after that. So there is no real open, honest debate in MSM, any critics they allow on only serve as an opening for an onslaught of babbittry to squelch criticism and calm the public.
#14980136
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, there were 159 cases of people with mitochondrial disorders and autism.


No, there weren't 159 cases of people with mitochondrial disorders and autism, there were 159 cases of people with autism, a significant percentage of which had markers for mitochondrial disorder.



There were not 159 cases of kids who developed autism from vaccines.


Once the connection is established as likely, vaccines are implicated in those cases with markers for mitochondrial disorder.

No, because Zimmerman only says it was misleading if you assume he was making a blanket statement about all vaccines.

Zimmerman is making two different statments about two different claims.


The DOJ lawyers used the exact same quote you used in the exact same context you used it in. Zimmerman says that's "highly misleading" and amounts to fraud.


As far as I can tell, you are cinfising the two.


You're the only one trying to confuse the issue here, Zimmerman's affidavit is crystal clear.
#14980141
Sivad wrote:No, there weren't 159 cases of people with mitochondrial disorders and autism, there were 159 cases of people with autism, a significant percentage of which had markers for mitochondrial disorder.

Once the connection is established as likely, vaccines are implicated in those cases with markers for mitochondrial disorder.

The DOJ lawyers used the exact same quote you used in the exact same context you used it in. Zimmerman says that's "highly misleading" and amounts to fraud.

You're the only one trying to confuse the issue here, Zimmerman's affidavit is crystal clear.


Are you clear thatbthere are two different claims? Yes or no?
#14980147
Pants-of-dog wrote:Are you clear thatbthere are two different claims? Yes or no?


I'm clear that you're trying to mislead people by misrepresenting Zimmerman's statement, I'm clear that you're desperate to confuse the issue, and I'm clear that you're lame flails are obvious and would only work on those who want to be deceived.
#14980149
So, two posts on reply to me and neither have any argument, logic, or evidence.

Let us be clear:

There are two claims:

1. That the MMR vaccine and/or thimoseral cause autism.

2. That vaccines can cause fevers, which then act as trigger injuries in kids with mitochondrial disorders and can then lead to symptoms that appear to be autism.

Now, unless you guys can show how this is wrong, we can accept this is as true and move on.
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