Pants-of-dog wrote:Because we live in a capitalist system and everything is done this way. You are literally pointing out how normal this all is.
Please point us to some comparable examples. Thanks.
AFAIK wrote:AOC and Greta have only recently entered the public eye. Before that right wingers denied climate change because they didn't want to drive smaller cars or spend money on cleaner energy.
These tendencies have been noticeable for years and if nothing else, the two examples can be regarded as a vindication of previous suspicions. As mentioned, the passionate opposition to clean nuclear energy has also been an environmentalist mainstay.
AFAIK wrote:This whole thread is a red herring. Complaining that elites are trying to co-opt Greta is like complaining that high speed trains require public investment. Let's just ignore the billions spent by fossil fuel companies to buy elections and public opinion. Let's ignore the billions governments spend to build and maintain roads and airports.
I'm not asking anybody to ignore anything and to me it looks like you guys are the ones insisting that we ignore information that you regard as negatively implicating the Thunberg phenomenon. In fact, some of you seem to be getting cross about the very existence of this thread.
Apart from that, it's also difficult to not notice that while both sides have corporate backing and special interests behind them, one side is being hailed as a grassroots movement of innocent children, led by an unlikely child leader, who are saving us soiled and sinful adults from ourselves.
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:Your view, then, is based on your emotions and feelings. Because you have an antipathy to the spiritual, you are ignoring science, because for once, the 'spiritual' people are on the scientifically-correct side. It's not that industry financing means something can be dismissed - it's that spiritual support means it can.
I'm just making observations and stating my interpretation of them. I also don't feel any antipathy towards spiritual or religious people, but I'm now wondering when it has become controversial among centrists and lefties to point out corporate/industry involvement or the spiritual/religious elements of a movement. I'm even more surprised that it has apparently become acceptable among the same group of people to put existential fear into children and teenagers, trying to make them believe that they have no future.
I think it's quite likely that environmentalists had some influence in restricting choices when it comes to acceptable solutions to climate change. They were almost certainly part of the reason why Germany not only chose to phase out nuclear power but decided to do so early (after Fukushima). I strongly doubt that they are on the scientifically correct side regarding this.
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:What can we do to get you to listen to climate scientists, rather than your emotions?
There's nothing you can do to make me less skeptical about the confidence of climate scientists regarding the extent of the human contribution to global warming, because I do not believe that what is presented as a virtual certainty can currently be attained in this field.
It's also difficult to rationally explain the salience this issue now has in comparison with other threats that to me seem more likely to be able to lead to extinction or at least to a collapse of human civilisation, such as pandemics or nuclear war. This together with the solutions that have been adopted or proposed makes me skeptical about the rationality and/or sincerity of the people purporting to believe in a "climate emergency".
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not talking about a conspiracy. Rather, I think it is a confluence of circumstances, politics, special interests, group dynamics and irrationality that has led us to this point.