The New, and very Dangerous "Left" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15030876
People on the "woke" hard-left seem so self-righteous about their monopoly over Truth (with a capital T) that many of them apparently see no reason to allow dissenting, politically incorrect, views to be expressed. Such incorrect views, they claim, make them feel "unsafe." They can feel safe only if views they share are allowed to be
expressed. Feeling unsafe is the new trigger word for demanding censorship.

The other dangerous similarity between the Stalinists and the "wokers" is that both disdain due process for those they deem guilty of political incorrectness or other crimes and sins. They reject any presumption of innocence or requirement that the accuser bear the burden of proof.

For Stalinist and "wokers," there is no uncertainty or fallibility. If they believe someone is guilty, he must be. Why do we need a cumbersome process for determining guilt? The identities of the accuser and accused are enough. Privileged white men are guilty perpetrators. Intersectional minorities are innocent victims. Who needs to know more? Any process, regardless of its fairness, favors the privileged over the unprivileged.

( The Gatestone Institute)
#15030882
Elyzabeth wrote:the "wokers"


woke hipsters = wokesters

“Wokesterism eerily mirrors many of the harsher practices of the most severe American Protestantism. It offers its own original sin, “white privilege,” from which there is neither redemption nor hope of redemption — like the old Presbyterian hell for babies who have come into this world drenched in sin. No amount of abject apology will avail for heretics to Wokesterism. The principal aims of Wokesterism are coercion of others, persecution, and punishment of the guilty (the un-Woke). Most importantly, it requires the suspension of individual conscience in order to promote unthinking, robotic obedience and mob justice. That helps explain the disgraceful blindness of the Wokester Left, especially the educated elites who work in the news media, the computer tech sector, and other “creative class” vocations.”

The protestants had the great awakening, a mass religious revival led by evangelical Protestant ministers, a sharp increase of interest in religion, and a profound sense of conviction and redemption on the part of those affected, what we're seeing now is a secular version of that, a great awokening. It's a religious hysteria just like every other religious hysteria that has swept over Western culture in the last couple centuries. It'll hit peak hysteria soon if it hasn't already and then start to die down. Fervent idiocy can't sustain itself indefinitely.
#15030893
Elyzabeth wrote:People on the "woke" hard-left seem so self-righteous about their monopoly over Truth (with a capital T) that many of them apparently see no reason to allow dissenting, politically incorrect, views to be expressed. Such incorrect views, they claim, make them feel "unsafe." They can feel safe only if views they share are allowed to be
expressed. Feeling unsafe is the new trigger word for demanding censorship.

The other dangerous similarity between the Stalinists and the "wokers" is that both disdain due process for those they deem guilty of political incorrectness or other crimes and sins. They reject any presumption of innocence or requirement that the accuser bear the burden of proof.

For Stalinist and "wokers," there is no uncertainty or fallibility. If they believe someone is guilty, he must be. Why do we need a cumbersome process for determining guilt? The identities of the accuser and accused are enough. Privileged white men are guilty perpetrators. Intersectional minorities are innocent victims. Who needs to know more? Any process, regardless of its fairness, favors the privileged over the unprivileged.

( The Gatestone Institute)


The new right is also very dangerous and insidious.

I recommend you stop being emotional, and start being rational. I also recommend you take a step back and check your tribalism.
#15030907
Rancid wrote:The new right is also very dangerous and insidious.


The difference is the alt-right doesn't have the full backing of the establishment. The right is keeping its nutbags marginalized to the fringes, they're not mainstreaming hardcore racists and reactionary extremists.
#15030913
white liberals recently became the only demographic group in America to display a pro-outgroup bias—meaning that among all the different groups surveyed white liberals were the only one that expressed a preference for other racial and ethnic communities above their own. As woke ideology has accelerated, a growing faction of white liberals have pulled away from the average opinions held by the rest of the coalition of Democratic voters—including minority groups in the party.

“In the past five years, white liberals have moved so far to the left on questions of race and racism that they are now, on these issues, to the left of even the typical black voter.

no one is put in a more strained and problematic position by the politics of white liberals than the white liberals themselves. The woke elite act like white saviors who must lead the rest of the country, including the racial minorities whose interests they claim to represent, to a vision of justice the less enlightened groups would not choose for themselves.

Consider, for instance, that black and Asian Democrats and liberals are significantly more supportive of restrictive immigration policies and less positive toward racial/ethnic diversity than their white counterparts. Black and Hispanic Democrats and liberals are more sympathetic toward Israel than the Palestinians (likely due in part to the fact that they tend to be more religious). They are also more likely to part ways when it comes to contemporary social and gender-identity issues, including views of the #MeToo movement. In all, though they do converge on some issues, the attitudes and policy preferences of the woke white left are unrepresentative of the “marginalized communities” with whom they are supposed to be allies. And as woke liberals play a leading role in party politics, the Democrats, who are increasingly defined by their embrace of diversity and progressive stances on issues of racial justice, appear to do so, at least partly at the direction of a small white elite.

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-a ... te-saviors
#15030918
Reichstraten wrote:Conservatives and related right wingers are claiming all the time that they are the one and only 'realists'.


Really?

And you believe what the group says about itself?

I have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you!
#15030920
Sivad wrote:The difference is the alt-right doesn't have the full backing of the establishment. The right is keeping its nutbags marginalized to the fringes, they're not mainstreaming hardcore racists and reactionary extremists.


The difference is that the Left is no longer the domain of white liberals,
now you have the violent "Antifa" and the so-called "Squad",
4 freshmen congresswomen of color,
who Despise Isreal, as well as much of what America stands for.
#15030921
Rancid wrote:The new right is also very dangerous and insidious.

I recommend you stop being emotional, and start being rational. I also recommend you take a step back and check your tribalism.



And I suggest that you take a step forward

and get some knowledge about what is happening in the world today.
#15030925
Rancid wrote:The new right is also very dangerous and insidious.

I recommend you stop being emotional, and start being rational. I also recommend you take a step back and check your tribalism.



The problem is that the left as a whole is becoming extremist and what we consider as far left today may be the standard 10 years from now this is scary.
the far right is a pariah they are not supported by the majority of the right
the media is doing its job by highlighting and exaggerating the alt right this gives them motivation and turning the right as a whole to the alt right because as the left become more extreme the right will also become more extreme as a reaction.
#15030928
Elyzabeth wrote:Really?

And you believe what the group says about itself?

I have a lovely bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you!

No, I think the point is that what conservatives have to say is often ridiculous, and not worth paying attention to. Like, for instance, the OP. The author of the attack, Alan Dershowitz, is smarting from being exposed for his involvement with Epstein's paedophile ring, and wants to divert attention from himself, and claim that it's "woke" or "Stalinist" to criticise him for his deeds. The Gatestone Institute should be ashamed that he is a "Distinguished Senior Fellow" there; but it shows how low their standards are. The OP is a mishmash of strawmen and name-calling.
#15030986
Quoting a far-right wing media source for your information that the left is dangerous. How valid. :roll:

The Gatestone Institute, formerly Stonegate Institute, is a “not-for-profit international policy council and think tank based in New York City” with a specialization in strategy and defense issues. Gatestone Institute is anti-Islamic, pro-Christian and Jewish/Israel. Many of the articles will link back to sites that don’t say what they claim or make the same rash judgments, without proof. Example: Obama tells Christians to not protest in Egypt then has no quotes or sources saying he said that. (M. Allen 12/30/2016)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/gatestone-institute/

Rancid wrote:The new right is also very dangerous and insidious.

I recommend you stop being emotional, and start being rational. I also recommend you take a step back and check your tribalism.
QFT.
#15030994
@Elyzabeth is right to be concerned. From all available evidence, we appear to be at a major inflection point in history, what leftists sometimes call a historical juncture. You don't have to be a leftist, though, to recognize there a major turning points in history. 1932/33 was such a juncture. FDR assumed the Presidency with a sweeping Congressional majority and Hitler was appointed Chancellor.

The salient feature of a juncture is unpredictability. They can turn in any number of ways good or bad, but the one thing that is guaranteed is major change.

What this means for Americans is there is no going back to status quo, as represented by Obama, Bush, the Clintons, and Romney. There will be a major swing to the left or the right. This presages badly for the Democrats, who are radically clueless about the depth of our political crisis.
#15031014
Sivad wrote:woke hipsters = wokesters

“Wokesterism eerily mirrors many of the harsher practices of the most severe American Protestantism. It offers its own original sin, “white privilege,” from which there is neither redemption nor hope of redemption — like the old Presbyterian hell for babies who have come into this world drenched in sin. No amount of abject apology will avail for heretics to Wokesterism. The principal aims of Wokesterism are coercion of others, persecution, and punishment of the guilty (the un-Woke). Most importantly, it requires the suspension of individual conscience in order to promote unthinking, robotic obedience and mob justice. That helps explain the disgraceful blindness of the Wokester Left, especially the educated elites who work in the news media, the computer tech sector, and other “creative class” vocations.”

The protestants had the great awakening, a mass religious revival led by evangelical Protestant ministers, a sharp increase of interest in religion, and a profound sense of conviction and redemption on the part of those affected, what we're seeing now is a secular version of that, a great awokening. It's a religious hysteria just like every other religious hysteria that has swept over Western culture in the last couple centuries. It'll hit peak hysteria soon if it hasn't already and then start to die down. Fervent idiocy can't sustain itself indefinitely.



So yes, I agree. Progressives these days are like later day secular Puritans.

The article from the Tablet mag summed it up well. They are obsessed with moral purity. That is to say, they are fanatics. I should also point out that they are racist. Although they target the white majority, despite being white themselves, they do this for the sake of power. After all, the best way to gain power through racism is to subordinate the dominant group. By dominating the white majority through moral coercion, they become the most power white people and thus gain power over everyone.

So they are sing the politics of race to empower themselves. IE: they are racists. Those who think they are the good people and someone else is the bad people, are able to justify all sorts of evil and wicked ways to treat their fellow human beings. It is entirely justifiable to describe white progressive fanatics as dangerous people.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nk8aW389A-Q
#15031307
Foxdemon:

" It is entirely justifiable to describe white progressive fanatics as dangerous people."

This is your quote.


I cannot believe one can be so bigoted against white people,

as I would also find it intolerable to be this bigoted against people of color.

Bigotry is bigotry!
#15031308
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:No, I think the point is that what conservatives have to say is often ridiculous, and not worth paying attention to. Like, for instance, the OP. The author of the attack, Alan Dershowitz, is smarting from being exposed for his involvement with Epstein's paedophile ring, and wants to divert attention from himself, and claim that it's "woke" or "Stalinist" to criticise him for his deeds. The Gatestone Institute should be ashamed that he is a "Distinguished Senior Fellow" there; but it shows how low their standards are. The OP is a mishmash of strawmen and name-calling.


What the conservatives have to say IS often ridiculous, just as what the left has to say is often ridiculous, and increasingly violent.

We are discussing the new more violent LEFT /WOKE,

which has nothing to do with Epstein or Dershowitz,

Or your rather unpleasant and incorrect insults about me.

On topic, with a little less venom, please!
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