Trump Fails At Everything. So Why Does He Always End Up On Top? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15035590
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelsch ... 9eb675117f

TLDR; Prez is a master of hype and bluster, got given a handout and survived on BSing his way through everything.

It's a pretty interesting article though.

IMHO Trump is scared as fick that he's going to get prosecuted after term 2; he'll try to abolish the term limit (as he said a while back - despite the fact Steny Hoyer and others tried this back in 05 as well), and he'll try to get himself out of the jams he's in by attaini'g as much money and power as he can to airlift himself out of trouble just as it all comes on top.

Think of it as being akin to Bibi's predicamente...
#15035596
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You are just another victim of the mainstream media brainwash

Trump obviously does not fail at everything.
and your opinion is stupid because I dont see any scenario where Trump will trey to abolish the term limit this is not possible


Your reply can be summarised as "No no no no, you're wrong".

I'll take the opinion of a well-respected Forbes contributor thanks.

Did you even read the article?

And you should try reading about attempts to abolish the term limit first.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... -now%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.co ... limit/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... f_amp=true

I'm surprised you didn't know this.

Btw "Trump fails at everything" is the title of the article, hence the thread. ;)

It's kind of not 100% meant to be taken literally...ie he's generally a failure.

..But let's see what he has achieved then eh Mr ZN?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... umpometer/

Does that look good to you then?
#15035826
Presvias wrote:TLDR; Prez is a master of hype and bluster, got given a handout and survived on BSing his way through everything.

It's a pretty interesting article though.

It more or less says, "If you want to have the power and influence of Trump, just pay my exorbitant consulting fee and I will show you how."

Presvias wrote:IMHO Trump is scared as fick that he's going to get prosecuted after term

I think he's playing matador to the Democrat bull, and they are about to get gored. I swear that whole Biden Ukraine thing was a set up and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Presvias wrote:2; he'll try to abolish the term limit (as he said a while back - despite the fact Steny Hoyer and others tried this back in 05 as well), and he'll try to get himself out of the jams he's in by attaini'g as much money and power as he can to airlift himself out of trouble just as it all comes on top.

The term limit on the presidency is a constitutional amendment. It would take two thirds of both houses and ratification by 3/4ths of the states. It simply isn't going to happen. It was implemented to prevent dictators like FDR.

Presvias wrote:I'll take the opinion of a well-respected Forbes contributor thanks.

Did you even read the article?

The author is shilling for his own business as a media consultant. He more or less praised Trump's extraordinary media savvy while trying to appease Never Trumpers too.

Presvias wrote:And you should try reading about attempts to abolish the term limit first.

Trump was trolling--part of his media genius.

Presvias wrote:I'm surprised you didn't know this.

There is no serious effort to repeal term limits. Hoyer and Serrano are out of their trees. There's no way there going to get that done. Your last article acknowledged that Trump was just trolling.

"Should we go back to 16 years? Congressman, can we have that extended?" Trump said in April at the White House. "The last time I jokingly said that, the papers started saying, 'He's got despotic tendencies!' No, I'm not looking to do it, unless you want to do it.”
#15035878
blackjack21 wrote:It more or less says, "If you want to have the power and influence of Trump, just pay my exorbitant consulting fee and I will show you how."


I think he's playing matador to the Democrat bull, and they are about to get gored. I swear that whole Biden Ukraine thing was a set up and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.


The term limit on the presidency is a constitutional amendment. It would take two thirds of both houses and ratification by 3/4ths of the states. It simply isn't going to happen. It was implemented to prevent dictators like FDR.


The author is shilling for his own business as a media consultant. He more or less praised Trump's extraordinary media savvy while trying to appease Never Trumpers too.


Trump was trolling--part of his media genius.


There is no serious effort to repeal term limits. Hoyer and Serrano are out of their trees. There's no way there going to get that done. Your last article acknowledged that Trump was just trolling.


Ah, the old 'he was just joking' trump card again, yeah..not buying that one. Just dressing up truthes as a joke, is not going to be accepted. He does that all the time.

I've read a bit about the term limits thing and according to legal experts, there is a chance (however slim) that such could be passed.

But you've basically admitted that Trump's just a master of hype and FUD. And your main contention is that the Forbes guy is tryung to sell his services.

He may well be, as you say, trying to sell himself and his services; and he may be trying to appease Dems and Repubs, but he's still correct that Trump's only power is by baffling people with BS.

He was born into privilege and managed to start up & bankrupt so many of his own businesses. He's renowned for not paying people for services rendered; he's renowned for his egotistical childish tirades against anyone who criticises anything he says (re greeland sale being absurd..."she's nasty").

What do you think of the politifact article I posted which proves that he really is a failure where his campaign pledges are concerned?
#15035928
Presvias wrote:Ah, the old 'he was just joking' trump card again, yeah..not buying that one. Just dressing up truthes as a joke, is not going to be accepted. He does that all the time.

Which is why it's accepted. He's trolled the public the entire time. You may not believe Trump, but he doesn't need your vote.

Presvias wrote:I've read a bit about the term limits thing and according to legal experts, there is a chance (however slim) that such could be passed.

There is a chance it could pass, but about the same chance I could win the lottery. A 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress and 3/4s of the states is a VERY HIGH bar to clear. It can take decades to pass a constitution amendment. Trump would be dead before such a thing would pass, and there is frankly no appetite for it in the United States. On the contrary, there is more appetite for Congressional term limits.

Presvias wrote:But you've basically admitted that Trump's just a master of hype and FUD. And your main contention is that the Forbes guy is tryung to sell his services.

Trump really isn't a FUD guy. He's more of a troll.

Presvias wrote:He may well be, as you say, trying to sell himself and his services; and he may be trying to appease Dems and Repubs, but he's still correct that Trump's only power is by baffling people with BS.

No. It's considerably deeper than that.

1. Money: Trump didn't need establishment money to get into or stay in the presidential race in 2016. Grass roots campaigns are pretty rare. So the establishment was unable to shut Trump down and there was no grass roots challenger.

2. Popular Issues: The establishment hates tariffs and immigration enforcement, preferring open borders--and free trade and open borders is also the preferred position among communists and the far left; however, this position is deeply unpopular in America's heartland. Trump was able to claim two important positions that were a third rail of politics from a fund raising perspective among the establishment, and thereby dominate in the American heartland when none of his competitors could do that. As a consequence, Trump rallies are fantastically popular. Rallies of this size require Trump to motivate people far more than can be explained by "BS" and baffling people.

3. Political Correctness: The media was and is nearly 100% biased against Trump, and uses the doctrine of political correctness to try to harm Trump. Trump has harnessed this political force to his end by taking positions that a majority of the American people agree with but generally will not say because they don't want to deal with the wrath of political correctness and/or they think it is rude. So Trump creates awareness of issues the establishment tried and largely succeeded to quash with political correctness and puts himself on the right side of the issues with voters, but the wrong side of political correctness so that he gets free publicity. The BS he spews is just more free publicity, which his detractors fall for every time.

4. Willingness to Fight: Among Republican leadership, Trump is uniquely willing to fight the culture war. Where the far left thrives on conflict, most of the Republican party prefers a quiescent day to day life to the point they are willing to concede way too much politically in order to avoid bad press. Trump never does this. He creates controversies so that he controls the battlespace. This doesn't begin an end with the culture war either. He does it with policy too, such as building the wall. While the establishment fought the wall the entire way, Trump is getting it built now in an unorthodox way. It is hugely popular with his base, but hated by the establishment. There aren't many politicians who would keep fighting the way Trump did. Fighting like this and winning with fierce and treacherous opposition creates a powerful emotional bond between Trump and his supporters--something no other politician out there has right now.

Presvias wrote:He was born into privilege and managed to start up & bankrupt so many of his own businesses.

Three out of four business ventures fail. That is not a sign of a bad business man. Everyone who is in business knows that. Everyone who brings up this point like it is relevant is loudly proclaiming, "I don't know much about business." This article's claim of failures extends to branding initiatives like "Trump steaks." Trump didn't buy up a bunch of cattle ranches or slaughterhouses. He just partnered with a meat company and put his name on some steaks that he used in his hotels and tried to brand and sell steaks. This is not some sort of wearing a barrel over your naked body sort of failure. :roll:

Presvias wrote:He's renowned for not paying people for services rendered; he's renowned for his egotistical childish tirades against anyone who criticises anything he says (re greeland sale being absurd..."she's nasty").

So don't do business with him or criticize him.

Presvias wrote:What do you think of the politifact article I posted which proves that he really is a failure where his campaign pledges are concerned?

I don't agree. The areas where they say "Broken" are areas that weren't under his control. He tried and failed. Trying and failing isn't the same as breaking a campaign promise. The most meaningful failure he has as president is failing to repeal ObamaCare, which the article characterizes as stalled. There is a silver lining, in that Trump exposed a lot of RINO Republicans who had voted 40+ times to repeal ObamaCare and when they finally had the power to do it revealed themselves for the traitors they were all along.

Political success and failure aren't that easy to define with such articles, as they are often designed as a series of leading statements to effectively call someone a liar by trying to get the reader to reach that conclusion. People who voted to repeal ObamaCare for half a decade and then wouldn't do it when they had the chance were exposed as political frauds. Nobody has successfully done that with Trump.

Consider "Ukrainegate" as jimjam puts it: Trump has just trolled the Democrats into impeaching him again for using his prosecutorial power against corruption of public officials. Trump will not prosecute Biden. However, he will highlight Biden's abuse of power, while at the same time exposing deep state actors spying on him, and making Democrats and the media look utterly hypocritical after subjecting Trump to a $40M special counsel investigation for which there was no probable cause--all predicated on a Hillary Clinton for President/DNC dirty trick to smear Trump--and now claiming Trump is abusing power for looking into a gray area of Biden and his son on the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. If you work in a publicly traded company, as I do, you have to take annual training on this stuff.

Nancy Pelosi will meet with House Democrats TODAY on impeachment as they reach 'tipping point' despite Trump insisting there would be nothing wrong with asking Ukraine's president for Joe Biden corruption probe

Get the picture? As non-intuitive as this is for an individual who would prefer not to have any bad press, Trump is a master at taking the entire Democratic party down a rabbit hole while incurring all of the slings and arrows they hurl his way. Nancy Pelosi is losing control over the House. They cannot successfully remove Trump from office. In goading the Democrats to impeach Trump, Trump will very obviously wage an affirmative defense and declassify a ton of stuff further embarrassing the deep state and its corruption, and exposing the anti-Trump people as maintaining the corrupt status quo. The damage he has done to them is tremendous.

The speaker said Sunday that unless the administration provides more information to Congress by the scheduled Thursday hearing at the intelligence committee, its officials 'will be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness which will take us into a whole new stage of investigation.'

What law did Trump break? None. "Thou shall not question Democratic party corruption" is not a law. It's not unlawful for a chief law enforcement officer to look into the potential criminal activity of his opponents. In fact, in criminal procedure, a law enforcement officer can lie and use deception in furtherance of enforcing the law and it is not unlawful to do that either. It's not even unlawful to engage in a malicious prosecution--as the special counsel investigation should clearly have shown to anyone suddenly in a dither--provided there is substance to the complaint, due process is followed and nothing unlawful takes place in the process, such as manufacturing and presenting false evidence or suppressing exculpatory evidence (as Mueller did many times).

'These allegations are stunning, both in the national security threat they pose and the potential corruption they represent,' wrote the seven freshmen, who include a former fighter pilot, soldiers, officers and intelligence analysts.

The allegations are not stunning in terms of national security: first, because the president determines national security--it is not some separate objective question settled by law. Ukraine investigating corruption taking place within Ukraine is perfectly within their purview. US politicians using the disbursement of public funds to a foreign country to enrich themselves or their family members or to preclude their family members from facing justice is certainly within the purview of the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. Not even Biden's actions are a national security threat, but rather garden variety corruption. Hillary Clinton's approval of selling US uranium interests fits that bill, and still nothing has been done about it--you could call that a failure of the Trump administration. Second, Trump is the chief law enforcement officer, so looking into violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is absolutely legitimate and perfectly within his purview--it's his job to do that. If Trump were asking for naked pictures of Biden he could put into his campaign ads, that's considerably different than asking them for information on the investigation that was being conducted and was allegedly cut short by Biden's actions, which if they didn't fold would have put Ukrainian national security at risk. Biden bragging about it on video does not help the Democrat's case here. Instead, it shows the Democrats going to the mat to defend their own corrupt actions, which is absurdly unreasonable and how it will appear to blue collar working class Democrats as Trump fill stadiums and illustrates what Biden actually did.

It also reveals something the Democrats and the establishment at large already seem to know: they cannot beat Trump at the ballot box, so this is their last best hope. Trump hasn't failed at everything he has tried. It's a false narrative, and the narrative has failed before. Why anyone continues in this way is beyond me.
#15036238
blackjack21 wrote:Which is why it's accepted. He's trolled the public the entire time. You may not believe Trump, but he doesn't need your vote.


Accepted by who? The election was a democratic farce. He needs every vote and scrap of support he can get from anyone anywhere in the world...even from masses of bots..

There is a chance it could pass, but about the same chance I could win the lottery. A 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress and 3/4s of the states is a VERY HIGH bar to clear. It can take decades to pass a constitution amendment. Trump would be dead before such a thing would pass, and there is frankly no appetite for it in the United States. On the contrary, there is more appetite for Congressional term limits.


It is a very high bar; but the future could yield a majority of repubs in both houses, espesh if putin gets his way


“Trump really isn't a FUD guy. He's more of a troll. ”

He's both. He loves to spread fear of mexicans, antifa, etc..


No. It's considerably deeper than that.

1. Money: Trump didn't need establishment money to get into or stay in the presidential race in 2016. Grass roots campaigns are pretty rare. So the establishment was unable to shut Trump down and there was no grass roots challenger.


Lol. Grassroots campaigns? Since when did Russian help and millionaire, billionaire donors and the requisite spending to recruit these 'grassroots' campaigners = a 'grassroots' campaign?


2. Popular Issues: The establishment hates tariffs and immigration enforcement, preferring open borders--and free trade and open borders is also the preferred position among communists and the far left; however, this position is deeply unpopular in America's heartland. Trump was able to claim two important positions that were a third rail of politics from a fund raising perspective among the establishment, and thereby dominate in the American heartland when none of his competitors could do that. As a consequence, Trump rallies are fantastically popular. Rallies of this size require Trump to motivate people far more than can be explained by "BS" and baffling people.


No they're not 'fantastically popular' as borne out by his recent liz warren sulking episode.

3. Political Correctness: The media was and is nearly 100% biased against Trump, and uses the doctrine of political correctness to try to harm Trump. Trump has harnessed this political force to his end by taking positions that a majority of the American people agree with but generally will not say because they don't want to deal with the wrath of political correctness and/or they think it is rude. So Trump creates awareness of issues the establishment tried and largely succeeded to quash with political correctness and puts himself on the right side of the issues with voters, but the wrong side of political correctness so that he gets free publicity. The BS he spews is just more free publicity, which his detractors fall for every time.


That's mostly a quite relativistic, and biased opinion, which you are entitled to. I couldn't agree of course.

4. Willingness to Fight: Among Republican leadership, Trump is uniquely willing to fight the culture war. Where the far left thrives on conflict, most of the Republican party prefers a quiescent day to day life to the point they are willing to concede way too much politically in order to avoid bad press. Trump never does this. He creates controversies so that he controls the battlespace. This doesn't begin an end with the culture war either. He does it with policy too, such as building the wall. While the establishment fought the wall the entire way, Trump is getting it built now in an unorthodox way. It is hugely popular with his base, but hated by the establishment. There aren't many politicians who would keep fighting the way Trump did. Fighting like this and winning with fierce and treacherous opposition creates a powerful emotional bond between Trump and his supporters--something no other politician out there has right now.


Apart from the opinionated bits, you are right about Trump causing drama where the other repubs like to go along with everything.


Three out of four business ventures fail. That is not a sign of a bad business man. Everyone who is in business knows that. Everyone who brings up this point like it is relevant is loudly proclaiming, "I don't know much about business." This article's claim of failures extends to branding initiatives like "Trump steaks." Trump didn't buy up a bunch of cattle ranches or slaughterhouses. He just partnered with a meat company and put his name on some steaks that he used in his hotels and tried to brand and sell steaks. This is not some sort of wearing a barrel over your naked body sort of failure. :roll:

So don't do business with him or criticize him.


Um. He's had more than a few failures though hasn't he?

Er, don't criticise him? C'mon that's just plain daft. Everyone's entitled to critique anyone.


I don't agree. The areas where they say "Broken" are areas that weren't under his control. He tried and failed. Trying and failing isn't the same as breaking a campaign promise. The most meaningful failure he has as president is failing to repeal ObamaCare, which the article characterizes as stalled. There is a silver lining, in that Trump exposed a lot of RINO Republicans who had voted 40+ times to repeal ObamaCare and when they finally had the power to do it revealed themselves for the traitors they were all along.

Political success and failure aren't that easy to define with such articles, as they are often designed as a series of leading statements to effectively call someone a liar by trying to get the reader to reach that conclusion. People who voted to repeal ObamaCare for half a decade and then wouldn't do it when they had the chance were exposed as political frauds. Nobody has successfully done that with Trump.


Ok let's dismiss the 'labels'.

What has he actually 'achieved' IYO? I want to hear everything..

Consider "Ukrainegate" as jimjam puts it: Trump has just trolled the Democrats into impeaching him again for using his prosecutorial power against corruption of public officials. Trump will not prosecute Biden. However, he will highlight Biden's abuse of power, while at the same time exposing deep state actors spying on him, and making Democrats and the media look utterly hypocritical after subjecting Trump to a $40M special counsel investigation for which there was no probable cause--all predicated on a Hillary Clinton for President/DNC dirty trick to smear Trump--and now claiming Trump is abusing power for looking into a gray area of Biden and his son on the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. If you work in a publicly traded company, as I do, you have to take annual training on this stuff.


The Dems' failures do not detract from Trump's own failures. I do not like the Dems particularly.

I suggest you try to evaluate Trump on his own merits, as opposed to comparing him to everyone else.

The fact that he has to engage in hype & FUD just to distract people long enough to fulfil his ideas, is proof enough of his character & inability to do things properly.

Nancy Pelosi will meet with House Democrats TODAY on impeachment as they reach 'tipping point' despite Trump insisting there would be nothing wrong with asking Ukraine's president for Joe Biden corruption probe

Get the picture? As non-intuitive as this is for an individual who would prefer not to have any bad press, Trump is a master at taking the entire Democratic party down a rabbit hole while incurring all of the slings and arrows they hurl his way. Nancy Pelosi is losing control over the House. They cannot successfully remove Trump from office. In goading the Democrats to impeach Trump, Trump will very obviously wage an affirmative defense and declassify a ton of stuff further embarrassing the deep state and its corruption, and exposing the anti-Trump people as maintaining the corrupt status quo. The damage he has done to them is tremendous.


He'll selectively release docs to get others in trouble.

It could come on top for him at any time.

Btw, he's hanging on for as long as he can; he's getting prosecuted like Bibi as soon as he's outta office..

What law did Trump break? None. "Thou shall not question Democratic party corruption" is not a law. It's not unlawful for a chief law enforcement officer to look into the potential criminal activity of his opponents. In fact, in criminal procedure, a law enforcement officer can lie and use deception in furtherance of enforcing the law and it is not unlawful to do that either. It's not even unlawful to engage in a malicious prosecution--as the special counsel investigation should clearly have shown to anyone suddenly in a dither--provided there is substance to the complaint, due process is followed and nothing unlawful takes place in the process, such as manufacturing and presenting false evidence or suppressing exculpatory evidence (as Mueller did many times).


This is really just your opinion with no proof to support your claims tbh.

The allegations are not stunning in terms of national security: first, because the president determines national security--it is not some separate objective question settled by law. Ukraine investigating corruption taking place within Ukraine is perfectly within their purview. US politicians using the disbursement of public funds to a foreign country to enrich themselves or their family members or to preclude their family members from facing justice is certainly within the purview of the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. Not even Biden's actions are a national security threat, but rather garden variety corruption. Hillary Clinton's approval of selling US uranium interests fits that bill, and still nothing has been done about it--you could call that a failure of the Trump administration. Second, Trump is the chief law enforcement officer, so looking into violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is absolutely legitimate and perfectly within his purview--it's his job to do that. If Trump were asking for naked pictures of Biden he could put into his campaign ads, that's considerably different than asking them for information on the investigation that was being conducted and was allegedly cut short by Biden's actions, which if they didn't fold would have put Ukrainian national security at risk. Biden bragging about it on video does not help the Democrat's case here. Instead, it shows the Democrats going to the mat to defend their own corrupt actions, which is absurdly unreasonable and how it will appear to blue collar working class Democrats as Trump fill stadiums and illustrates what Biden actually did.


Dems this, dems that.

What about Trump?

You're engaging in whataboutery. He got the mueller report heavily redacted, he has a million questions to answer, his deutsche bank tax returns iirc are still MIA, there's the meetings & links between kushner, his sons, his friends & associates etc….

It also reveals something the Democrats and the establishment at large already seem to know: they cannot beat Trump at the ballot box, so this is their last best hope. Trump hasn't failed at everything he has tried. It's a false narrative, and the narrative has failed before. Why anyone continues in this way is beyond me.


Trump has tried..and failed at plenty of shit like Obamacare repeal as you acknowledged yourself.

I provided proof for most of my claims last time..this time it seems moot, seeing as you haven't reciprocated. Just saying.
#15036295
Presvias wrote:Accepted by who? The election was a democratic farce. He needs every vote and scrap of support he can get from anyone anywhere in the world...even from masses of bots..

He fought for every scrap of support and got it. He made a last minute trip to Michigan after a phone call from his ground team there. Hillary Clinton was busy measuring the drapes at the White House. His support is even broader now.

Presvias wrote:It is a very high bar; but the future could yield a majority of repubs in both houses, espesh if putin gets his way

The Republicans do not want it. It was the Republicans who passed presidential term limits. It's two Democrats you mentioned who want to remove it, and the only US president in US history to run more than twice was FDR--a Democrat.

Presvias wrote:He's both. He loves to spread fear of mexicans, antifa, etc..

Well, you have sort of a point with illegal immigrants--not Mexicans generally. Trump is only stoking--or reminding people--that the establishment wants the very problems the public is facing to drive their wages down. Did you see his rally in New Mexico? Did you see his rally with Narendra Modi? Democrats are shitting their pants. He's got Mexican-Americans cheering for him at his rallies. He's got Indian/Hindu Americans cheering him on. Democrats are freaking out.

Presvias wrote:Lol. Grassroots campaigns? Since when did Russian help and millionaire, billionaire donors and the requisite spending to recruit these 'grassroots' campaigners = a 'grassroots' campaign?

Who are you talking about? Trump wasn't funded by Russians or other millionaires or billionaires. He used his own money. When Obama ran, his early support was from donations under $200 from individuals. Nobody had that kind of support in 2016 on either side of the political spectrum. The closest to it was Ted Cruz.

Presvias wrote:No they're not 'fantastically popular' as borne out by his recent liz warren sulking episode.

You'll need to explain that one better.

Presvias wrote:That's mostly a quite relativistic, and biased opinion, which you are entitled to. I couldn't agree of course.

I have a biased opinion, and I've never claimed otherwise. I do not think it is "relativistic." I'm laying out Trump's strategy for you. For example, if the PC crowd wants to criticize people as "xenophobic," Donald Trump will make a comment that a majority of American voters agree with involving people from other countries. The media will criticize him for xenophobia, but ultimately be highlighting a position the majority agrees with. That's how he gets free press. He's currently forcing the establishment to cover Biden's corruption by trying to get the Democrats to impeach him.

Presvias wrote:Apart from the opinionated bits, you are right about Trump causing drama where the other repubs like to go along with everything.

Yes. What people came to hate about George W. Bush is that he just took it on the chin. His father did too, which is part of why he lost in 1992. Bush I even apologized for waging a scorched Earth campaign against Dukakis with the Willie Horton ads. Kennedy patriarch Joseph P. Kennedy used to say, "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Bob Dole was kind of a sacrificial candidate in 1996. However, McCain and Romney could have won, but they drank the PC Kool-aid and refused to fight.

Presvias wrote:Er, don't criticise him? C'mon that's just plain daft. Everyone's entitled to critique anyone.

That phrase needed "instead" or some other modifier. Of course, you should criticize politicians including Trump.

Presvias wrote:What has he actually 'achieved' IYO? I want to hear everything..

Tax reform was a major piece of legislation that also had some significant political twists that his detractors didn't count on:

1.) Lowered the marginal rate for everyone.
2.) Limited SALT deductions, forcing the rich and upper middle classes in blue states to pay more for profligate Democrat-run states.
3.) Lowered the corporate tax rate, incentivizing repatriation of profits back to the United States; and,
4.) Making US companies more competitive on a tax basis; and,
5.) Making US banks stronger as they benefit from the deposits; and,
6.) Making the stock market stronger as a result of corporate buybacks; and,
7.) Making wages increase as a result of stronger balance sheets.
8.) Eliminating the tax penalty of ObamaCare, forcing the SCOTUS to review it's own shitty John Roberts authored ruling.

Trump is fighting on trade. He's already renegotiated trade deals with South Korea, Canada and Mexico. This has exposed Nancy Pelosi as clearly being in the pocket of Wall Street and fucking over labor unions. He's also put tariffs on China. Trump labelled China a currency manipulator, which is something many US presidents have threatened to do, but haven't done it. Trump's latest "Ukrainegate" scheme is also revealing why this is the case, as he forces Democrats and the media to cover Joe Biden using Air Force II and taking his son along as a bag man for the Biden family collecting $1B dollars for his son's investment firm from Chinese-government affiliated entities--an investment business in which Hunter Biden had no prior qualifications or experience after getting kicked out of the military for cocaine addiction. So Trump is exposing how the establishment lines its pockets while selling out the United States. Trump has also gone after Huawei, particularly as firms want to roll out 5G--but Trump is making sure 5G rollout doesn't expose the US or its allies by allowing Huawei to build surveillance backdoors into the US or Western Europe--something fuckwit losers like Biden would probably let them do if China gave their cocaine-addled kids billions to play with.

Trump even got Germany to drop its tariff on US cars. The dude is frankly a machine on this kind of thing.

Federal Courts? Trump has appointed over 150 district and appellate court judges and 2 SCOTUS judges. He does not back down from phony scandals like the manufactured scandal against Kavanaugh. If he wins, he will most likely replace RBG who will probably die soon enough, and probably Clarence Thomas who will retire if a Republican wins.

Trump has dramatically slimmed down business regulatory burdens. See Trump's Regulatory Reform Agenda by the Numbers (Summer 2019 Update), with even some criticism that he's not doing enough. President Trump Should Rediscover Regulatory Reform


Presvias wrote:The Dems' failures do not detract from Trump's own failures. I do not like the Dems particularly.

I suggest you try to evaluate Trump on his own merits, as opposed to comparing him to everyone else.

I think exposing the deep state apparatus is a net plus. My support for Trump isn't a constructive matter. I think the deep state needs to be destroyed. There is too much of a culture of deception, dishonesty, obscurity, etc. In high tech, we call it "security through obscurity." Trump is blowing that up, and I think it's a wonderful thing.

Presvias wrote:The fact that he has to engage in hype & FUD just to distract people long enough to fulfil his ideas, is proof enough of his character & inability to do things properly.

That's a criticism of how he gets things done, not on whether he gets things done.

Presvias wrote:He'll selectively release docs to get others in trouble.

It could come on top for him at any time.

Btw, he's hanging on for as long as he can; he's getting prosecuted like Bibi as soon as he's outta office..

We shall see. Hillary Clinton and James Comey have clearly committed crimes and they decline to prosecute them, where they prosecute rank-and-file Americans for far less. I'll believe it when I see it. So far, nobody has been able to identify a statute or an implementing regulation Trump has violated, which is kind of important since being informed of the nature and cause of the charges is an essential aspect of due process.

Presvias wrote:This is really just your opinion with no proof to support your claims tbh.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution, and the defense is presumed innocent in US law. So it's not simply a matter of opinion. If you think Trump broke a law, cite the section of the United States Code you think he violated.

Presvias wrote:Dems this, dems that.

What about Trump?

What about him? What law do you think he violated?

Presvias wrote:Trump has tried..and failed at plenty of shit like Obamacare repeal as you acknowledged yourself.

Obamacare repeal in my opinion is Trump's biggest failure, and it results from the same neoconservative/neoliberal cabal he's fighting. John McCain single-handedly saved ObamaCare. He was hated by rank-and-file Republicans for things like that. Romney is taking on that mantle now, and Romney will never be president for the same reason. Yet, quite a few House Republicans voted against ObamaCare numerous times, and when they finally had the power, they voted to save it. They lied. I personally want to see them all defeated politically--and many of them have been defeated already. Personally, I've never liked Trump's vision for healthcare anyway, since he's basically an old school Democrat to begin with.

Trump tried and failed at the wall numerous times, but kept fighting and now he's winning. He's got billions of dollars to play with now and the wall is going up.

Presvias wrote:I provided proof for most of my claims last time..this time it seems moot, seeing as you haven't reciprocated. Just saying.

Trump ran primarily on two things: addressing illegal immigration and addressing trade. He has made major strides in those two areas. The establishment fought him the whole way. He's also made major strides on tax reform and on court appointments. So basically, there isn't a Republican that could run against him and win right now--most of them as we've more or less agreed are a bunch of spineless lily-livered losers.
#15038766
blackjack21 wrote:He fought for every scrap of support and got it. He made a last minute trip to Michigan after a phone call from his ground team there. Hillary Clinton was busy measuring the drapes at the White House. His support is even broader now.


The Republicans do not want it. It was the Republicans who passed presidential term limits. It's two Democrats you mentioned who want to remove it, and the only US president in US history to run more than twice was FDR--a Democrat.


Well, you have sort of a point with illegal immigrants--not Mexicans generally. Trump is only stoking--or reminding people--that the establishment wants the very problems the public is facing to drive their wages down. Did you see his rally in New Mexico? Did you see his rally with Narendra Modi? Democrats are shitting their pants. He's got Mexican-Americans cheering for him at his rallies. He's got Indian/Hindu Americans cheering him on. Democrats are freaking out.


Who are you talking about? Trump wasn't funded by Russians or other millionaires or billionaires. He used his own money. When Obama ran, his early support was from donations under $200 from individuals. Nobody had that kind of support in 2016 on either side of the political spectrum. The closest to it was Ted Cruz.


You'll need to explain that one better.


I have a biased opinion, and I've never claimed otherwise. I do not think it is "relativistic." I'm laying out Trump's strategy for you. For example, if the PC crowd wants to criticize people as "xenophobic," Donald Trump will make a comment that a majority of American voters agree with involving people from other countries. The media will criticize him for xenophobia, but ultimately be highlighting a position the majority agrees with. That's how he gets free press. He's currently forcing the establishment to cover Biden's corruption by trying to get the Democrats to impeach him.


Yes. What people came to hate about George W. Bush is that he just took it on the chin. His father did too, which is part of why he lost in 1992. Bush I even apologized for waging a scorched Earth campaign against Dukakis with the Willie Horton ads. Kennedy patriarch Joseph P. Kennedy used to say, "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Bob Dole was kind of a sacrificial candidate in 1996. However, McCain and Romney could have won, but they drank the PC Kool-aid and refused to fight.


That phrase needed "instead" or some other modifier. Of course, you should criticize politicians including Trump.


Tax reform was a major piece of legislation that also had some significant political twists that his detractors didn't count on:

1.) Lowered the marginal rate for everyone.
2.) Limited SALT deductions, forcing the rich and upper middle classes in blue states to pay more for profligate Democrat-run states.
3.) Lowered the corporate tax rate, incentivizing repatriation of profits back to the United States; and,
4.) Making US companies more competitive on a tax basis; and,
5.) Making US banks stronger as they benefit from the deposits; and,
6.) Making the stock market stronger as a result of corporate buybacks; and,
7.) Making wages increase as a result of stronger balance sheets.
8.) Eliminating the tax penalty of ObamaCare, forcing the SCOTUS to review it's own shitty John Roberts authored ruling.

Trump is fighting on trade. He's already renegotiated trade deals with South Korea, Canada and Mexico. This has exposed Nancy Pelosi as clearly being in the pocket of Wall Street and fucking over labor unions. He's also put tariffs on China. Trump labelled China a currency manipulator, which is something many US presidents have threatened to do, but haven't done it. Trump's latest "Ukrainegate" scheme is also revealing why this is the case, as he forces Democrats and the media to cover Joe Biden using Air Force II and taking his son along as a bag man for the Biden family collecting $1B dollars for his son's investment firm from Chinese-government affiliated entities--an investment business in which Hunter Biden had no prior qualifications or experience after getting kicked out of the military for cocaine addiction. So Trump is exposing how the establishment lines its pockets while selling out the United States. Trump has also gone after Huawei, particularly as firms want to roll out 5G--but Trump is making sure 5G rollout doesn't expose the US or its allies by allowing Huawei to build surveillance backdoors into the US or Western Europe--something fuckwit losers like Biden would probably let them do if China gave their cocaine-addled kids billions to play with.

Trump even got Germany to drop its tariff on US cars. The dude is frankly a machine on this kind of thing.

Federal Courts? Trump has appointed over 150 district and appellate court judges and 2 SCOTUS judges. He does not back down from phony scandals like the manufactured scandal against Kavanaugh. If he wins, he will most likely replace RBG who will probably die soon enough, and probably Clarence Thomas who will retire if a Republican wins.

Trump has dramatically slimmed down business regulatory burdens. See Trump's Regulatory Reform Agenda by the Numbers (Summer 2019 Update), with even some criticism that he's not doing enough. President Trump Should Rediscover Regulatory Reform



I think exposing the deep state apparatus is a net plus. My support for Trump isn't a constructive matter. I think the deep state needs to be destroyed. There is too much of a culture of deception, dishonesty, obscurity, etc. In high tech, we call it "security through obscurity." Trump is blowing that up, and I think it's a wonderful thing.


That's a criticism of how he gets things done, not on whether he gets things done.


We shall see. Hillary Clinton and James Comey have clearly committed crimes and they decline to prosecute them, where they prosecute rank-and-file Americans for far less. I'll believe it when I see it. So far, nobody has been able to identify a statute or an implementing regulation Trump has violated, which is kind of important since being informed of the nature and cause of the charges is an essential aspect of due process.


The burden of proof is on the prosecution, and the defense is presumed innocent in US law. So it's not simply a matter of opinion. If you think Trump broke a law, cite the section of the United States Code you think he violated.


What about him? What law do you think he violated?


Obamacare repeal in my opinion is Trump's biggest failure, and it results from the same neoconservative/neoliberal cabal he's fighting. John McCain single-handedly saved ObamaCare. He was hated by rank-and-file Republicans for things like that. Romney is taking on that mantle now, and Romney will never be president for the same reason. Yet, quite a few House Republicans voted against ObamaCare numerous times, and when they finally had the power, they voted to save it. They lied. I personally want to see them all defeated politically--and many of them have been defeated already. Personally, I've never liked Trump's vision for healthcare anyway, since he's basically an old school Democrat to begin with.

Trump tried and failed at the wall numerous times, but kept fighting and now he's winning. He's got billions of dollars to play with now and the wall is going up.


Trump ran primarily on two things: addressing illegal immigration and addressing trade. He has made major strides in those two areas. The establishment fought him the whole way. He's also made major strides on tax reform and on court appointments. So basically, there isn't a Republican that could run against him and win right now--most of them as we've more or less agreed are a bunch of spineless lily-livered losers.


It's really just subjective opinion...

Your assertions that he's "made the stock market stronger" simply can't be accepted uncritically. That would be naive.

Several lawyers and experts asserted that Trump may have broken the law; not my opinion. Mueller didn't say one way or the other whether Trump did or didn't.

I will conclude by saying that you admit you support Trump based purely on his destructive streak; you actually don't support constructive solutions. IMHO you coud do with reflecting on that.
#15038818
Presvias wrote:I will conclude by saying that you admit you support Trump based purely on his destructive streak; you actually don't support constructive solutions.

I do not think constructive solutions are possible with many of the establishment, and I'm speaking of both Democrats and Republicans. I have no obligation to place my hope on one party or the other. So my desire to see the establishment beaten and bruised is no different than the games they play. If you want to support those people, you are free to do so. I am free to work toward their political demise.
#15042135
^ "Yawn" you just want to see everything destroyed and 'burned to the ground', what a crazy and self-destructive ideology.

Don't support the Dems, but also don't support Trump. He actually hates you and everyone who's not rich and powerful, he pisses on normal 'plebs' and cares not one iota about them, as you probably already know (shrugs).
#15042142
blackjack21 wrote:





1.) Lowered the marginal rate for everyone.
2.) Limited SALT deductions, forcing the rich and upper middle classes in blue states to pay more for profligate Democrat-run states.
3.) Lowered the corporate tax rate, incentivizing repatriation of profits back to the United States; and,
4.) Making US companies more competitive on a tax basis; and,
5.) Making US banks stronger as they benefit from the deposits; and,
6.) Making the stock market stronger as a result of corporate buybacks; and,
7.) Making wages increase as a result of stronger balance sheets.
8.) Eliminating the tax penalty of ObamaCare, forcing the SCOTUS to review it's own shitty John Roberts authored ruling.



Holy crap.

The lower rates expire for most people in a few years, but not the rich. And most of the cut goes to the rich already.

I've seen several economists describe them as a "sugar high" that didn't boost the economy much because there was already plenty of money in the economy.

The country will need a boost one of these days, and we already did it.

"But economists who have examined the impact of the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act say it isn’t helping much...

Those levels assure the failure of another tax cut promise. Trump and congressional Republicans insisted the law would spur so much economic activity that surging new revenues would replace those lost through lower tax rates.

A Congressional Research Service analysis concluded that the law has produced no more than 5% of the growth needed to offset tax cut losses.

But there’s no sign the tax cut has fattened paychecks very much for average workers."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/trumps- ... needs.html

There's more, but really, that's more than enough. This wasn't the first rodeo for Republican tax cuts. They never work as advertised, because parasitic behavior is kinda the opposite of good economic policy...
#15042156
Presvias wrote:Ah, so you'd take a forum avatar with a picture of Trump who posts an opinion with no backing, over a published author?


"a published author" stop, you're killing me lol

Then again, you defer to Tim Pool and Ronnie Corbett or whatever his name is..


I defer to facts and reason, I don't give a flying fuck about published authors or "well respected forbes contributors". :lol:

and you still think socialism is just about good accounting


your pofo is 100.
#15042232
Hong Wu wrote:Why would he try to stay in office into his 80's? This is a talking point meant to scare people.


As far as I heard, the "into someone's 80's" thing was from a random question referring to the oldest-lived person having held the office of POTUS. I have not found the age reference relevant to the current POTUS, although the Oldest Person did assert the importance of finding someone able to "beat Trump".

IMHO people better worry such a thing in Russia or China instead.

Meanwhile there's actually a simple answer for the OP's question. There are simply bigger failures than Trump out there, especially those whom the OP possibly supports. Period.
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