[maz]

The logical misstep you're making here is immediately conflating the 'confronting [of] racialized poverty' with piecemeal social programs that are designed to alleviate the effects of poverty, not eliminate it. These are two very different things.

How much money is it going to take to eliminate the effects of poverty and how much of YOUR money are you willing to contribute?

[Donna]

How much money is it going to take to eliminate the effects of poverty and how much of YOUR money are you willing to contribute?

There is still a difference between attacking the effects of poverty and eliminating poverty.

[maz]

There is still a difference between attacking the effects of poverty and eliminating poverty.

Explain the difference and then give us a quantifiable dollar amount to eliminate poverty in the black community, plus give us the dollar about that you are wiling to contribute.

[Donna]

Explain the difference and then give us a quantifiable dollar amount to eliminate poverty in the black community, plus give us the dollar about that you are wiling to contribute.

The difference is that programs that are designed to alleviate the effects of poverty are not intended to eliminate poverty, they're intended to prevent people from starving or becoming destitute. An example of a program intended to eliminate poverty would be something akin to an overhaul of educational financing. I'm fine with paying for either type of program with progressive taxation.

[maz]

. An example of a program intended to eliminate poverty would be something akin to an overhaul of educational financing. I'm fine with paying for either type of program with progressive taxation.

I am interested in the exact dollar amount to eliminate poverty for all of the poorest withing the black community. I think that the forum needs to hear your expertise on the topic.

[Donna]

I am interested in the exact dollar amount to eliminate poverty for all of the poorest withing the black community. I think that the forum needs to hear your expertise on the topic.

But there's also a difference between successfully eliminating poverty and reducing poverty through programs that are intended to eliminate it. Educational reform, for example, might be successful in closing the poverty gap but it might not be able to attack all of the variables of racialized poverty. Actually eliminating poverty (all of it) might not even be possible through public spending and might only be achievable by changing the economic structure of society.

[maz]

But there's also a difference between successfully eliminating poverty and reducing poverty through programs that are intended to eliminate it. Educational reform, for example, might be successful in closing the poverty gap but it might not be able to attack all of the variables of racialized poverty. Actually eliminating poverty (all of it) might not even be possible through public spending and might only be achievable by changing the economic structure of society.

How much weed do you have to smoke to come up with these kinds of word salads?

[Sivad]

In Boston, intraracial violence is concentrated almost exclusively within social networks closely connected to gangs.

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/defau ... olence.pdf

Setting aside all the collateral damage of gang violence, all the bystanders that are wounded, maimed, or killed by stray bullets, and setting aside the terrorization of black communities by gangs, the shakedowns and extortion, the assaults, all the violence and intimidation that gangs inflict on these communities, most of the people you're calling "gangsters" are children who have been manipulated into the life and when they get killed or incarcerated it has a devastating impact on their families and the wider community.

By contrast, police violence affects the entire black population, and is extremely disproportionate.

Police violence is a problem but it's not a racial problem and by every study and statistic we have it pales in comparison to gang violence within the black community.

[Donna]

It's important to remember that only a few places in the US can accurately be described as gang-dominated neighborhoods and these cities generally have a long history of white flight, racist zoning laws and excessive suburban development, all of which exacerbate funding issues in already-poor neighborhoods. For decades the US has been fine with just letting these cities chaotically sprawl out because too much input from urban planners is socialism I guess.

[Unthinking Majority]

But there's also a difference between successfully eliminating poverty and reducing poverty through programs that are intended to eliminate it. Educational reform, for example, might be successful in closing the poverty gap but it might not be able to attack all of the variables of racialized poverty. Actually eliminating poverty (all of it) might not even be possible through public spending and might only be achievable by changing the economic structure of society.

Even if every single descendant of former slaves reached middle class income or higher, you're not going to get rid of poverty because you still have low skill/low education migrants from developing countries migrating.

Poverty is relative. A Filipino working making $15/hour is making a killing compared to back home. Unless the government forces everyone to have the same income you will always have people will higher and lower incomes.

[Donna]

Even if every single descendant of former slaves reached middle class income or higher, you're not going to get rid of poverty because you still have low skill/low education migrants from developing countries migrating.

Poverty is relative. A Filipino working making $15/hour is making a killing compared to back home. Unless the government forces everyone to have the same income you will always have people will higher and lower incomes.

There's a difference between disparities in income and not being able to afford your basic needs. We can have disparities in income without throwing the lower end of income earners under the bus.

[Deutschmania]

First off , racial profiling is ineffective , and unjust . https://www.thoughtco.com/the-case-against-racial-profiling-2834830 I feel that the best way to address the issue of militarized police occupation in the inner city ghettos would be through community policing https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/16/21293524/vivian-williams-chicago-community-policing , and also with the implementation of reparations https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/ , https://www.npr.org/2020/06/05/870862116/the-unresolved-legacy-of-reconstruction . Secondly , gang violence is not , and has never been an exclusively African-American issue . Even today there are ethnic gangs that are white . https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/05/white-gangs-rise-simon-city-royals-mississippi-chicago , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European-American_gangs And historically there were white gangs controlling organized crime in the cities . Take for example , " Gangs of New York " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gangs_of_New_York_(book)

, as well as the St.Valentine's Day Massacre . But even with black on black crime , which is connected with gang warfare , there has been collateral damage . https://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-chicago-hospital-collateral-damage-of-gang-war-never-subsides/ So it's not simply a matter of hoodlums killing rival hoodlums . Innocent people can and do wind up getting caught up in the crossfire .

[QatzelOk]

In my lifetime, in Canada, the much lower incomes and socio-economic status of francophones has been reversed. The gaping inequality no longer exists.

If you look back historically, petty crime was a problem among French Canadians when we were very poor. Today, Quebec has the lowest violent crime in North America. But this happened through income equality, and it was fought for in something called "The Quiet Revolution."

The revolution that allows black Americans to hold their heads up high... might not be quite as quiet.