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By RhetoricThug
#15121686


I think our cultural concept of technological-industrial progress usurped collective interest in a homogenized standard of living. And despite the influence of Moore's law and an increase in assistance from technology, people work longer hours, produce more, and make less money. An ever-increasing population and wealth gap expansion facilitated by social Taylorism has overshadowed any notion of collective bargaining for a standardized quality of life. To prevent consolidation of innovation, we move at the pace of minute particulars colliding with inflationary premises. Herded by massive employment of human intelligence, we rise and fall with the gravitational pull of industrial information systems.

Absorbed and exacerbated by our own doing, a sense of unattainable and existential wanting afflicts modernity, consequentially subjugating us to uneasy acquiescence of cheap tricks and distractions. SELF-imposed economic mind games insist that our great global society is on a path to popular immortality, if only we work harder, be better, and faster. Contentment and fulfillment become myths under the scrutiny of unbridled progress. But what else is there to do on Earth? What else is there for an organic mesh of biota to become? Obsolescence and extinction are integral axioms of evolution. After-all, it's the matrix of language that bifurcates phenomena and trifurcates the process of experience. A past, present, and future are all one moment in the presence of cosmic forces unraveling potential in all directions at once. I am an organ donor for the corpus-sol-anima.

Life may very well be a satire on permanency.
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 20 Sep 2020 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
By ness31
#15121697
Are you basically saying we have been enslaved by our technology?
#15121702
ness31 wrote:Are you basically saying we have been enslaved by our technology?
We've been enslaved by the half-truths of language and recycled for Maya maximum. Technology is us repurposing our thoughts. And since our thoughts do not originate solely from the individuation of awareness but rather by the amalgamation and multiplication of our interactions, we're aspects of evolutionary potential experiencing magnified fragments of a cosmic satire. A satire which can only be understood under the myopic lens of half-fibs and mad-libs because a flame doesn't burn itself. IS there freedom for a flame or does it depend on fuel levels?

Give me a math equation, I need to approximate the breadth of air in the sky. Make the invisible visible and then we can have an insensible dialogue. My lungs made sense of oxygen before my brain had any concept of hemoglobin. My voluptuous lobes are foaming like a rolling ocean woven round volcanically formed islands. A small child asks a grown child where babies come from, while artificially intelligent digital assistants scour the internet to help solve the mystery.
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 20 Sep 2020 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
By ness31
#15121813
We've been enslaved by the half-truths of language and recycled for Maya maximum. Technology is us repurposing our thoughts. And since our thoughts do not originate solely from the individuation of awareness but rather by the amalgamation and multiplication of our interactions, we're aspects of evolutionary potential experiencing magnified fragments of a cosmic satire. A satire which can only be understood under the myopic lens of half-fibs and mad-libs because a flame doesn't burn itself. IS there freedom for a flame or does it depend on fuel levels?


I think I get what you’re saying here.

It’s like when all the smart physicists say that a table isn’t just a table. It’s a mass of matter-ish molecules. They make everything almost sound pixelated, which, given our obsession with cameras these days is not entirely unexpected.

Give me a math equation, I need to approximate the breadth of air in the sky. Make the invisible visible and then we can have an insensible dialogue. My lungs made sense of oxygen before my brain had any concept of hemoglobin. My voluptuous lobes are foaming like a rolling ocean woven round volcanically formed islands. A small child asks a grown child where babies come from, while artificially intelligent digital assistants scour the internet to help solve the mystery.


You are spot on here.

The knowledge of our make up can neither help or harm us if we can’t actually verify it en mass. Will the majority of us ever make sense of our fragmentation? Will the select few who do get it be able to carry us to where they think we want to go?

It isn’t that we have been “enslaved by the half truths language”. People just stopped giving a shit about the keys that were given to them to set them free, which ironically was language. Story telling, accurate communication, nuance creativity. What’s the point of the mathematics if no one can explain it?
#15121902
Transactional glances
ness31 wrote:I think I get what you’re saying here.

It’s like when all the smart physicists say that a table isn’t just a table. It’s a mass of matter-ish molecules. They make everything almost sound pixelated, which, given our obsession with cameras these days is not entirely unexpected.
Linguists plunder carbon wonders. Pineal-spinal sap zaps clay-laden thunder flasks. Amass mother for inVader thought to spawn dawn/dusk cycles and seed dualistic editions of primeval epithelium. An autonomic Borg pockets the laws of objects and injects logic, a Haber-Bosch esque process, to fertilize and nourish wartime farm practices. It's true, life imitates art and art imitates life, spend all day and night retracing THE LIGHT.

Putare code of arms, retro casual abode where all the wild 1s & 0s roam.
By RhetoricThug
#15124690
http://Www.marauders market murder
and murder markets
quarterly carnage
.com targets social cartilage

Pledge allegiance undertow
overtones of sensory overload
begrudge grievous thievery
open mic media marquee

If it bleeds, it leads, ask the CDC
no reprieve for infectious disease
stay safe and stay at home, fiend
wash your glands and practice good hygiene

Non-culpable candidates
Offer dated ethnocentric destiny
Voter vertigo exorcise dementia foe
United Stake in Amnesia

Nitwit nitpick
panic at the picnic
tap to ad items to wishlist
lickety split!

Stranger danger loot thy neighbors
how much is that baby in a manger
let me ask my monkey wrangler, AI manager
"Siri, Keith Alexander, how much is life worth?"

See something say something
if you got nothing to hide
see something say something
OBEY & ABIDEn blame Trump

Now watch out for bandwidth traffic
DOD DOS tactics
don't forget to wash your hands
learn to speak Chinese and Spanish

There's a curfew in heaven
777-666-9/11, NEVER forget!
stay 6' apart at Buy 'n' Large
or end up 6' under
charged with social credit scars

Confidentially we hire mannequins
that transform like Anakin Skywalker
into insidious masked analysts
for the empire

Bastion of finance
transactional glances
Igasp @latest eye patch
attached to surveillance glass

Virtually craft assasSINs behest
request permission granted
access to tantric rants expanded
pry private prayers for price match
the die was cast and set in bone

#Droningdrone swarms drain gamer's #bluescreen brain
early warning system enter-trained
crypto-arcade hotline-bling supply-chain
COINTELPRO land sea and space

Mastery over all domains
Incinerate remains
Holly stick figures burst into flames
cremate care during the golden error

Bioterror chump chip chimp
chirp-chirp herd in goal mind
FDApproved augmented swine
double-slit piggy gagged on Fitbit
and was met with little resistance

Musky mace covers elongated proto-subspace
Eraserhead muzzles new COVID cases
mass wasting & relentless restlessness
ego quest for Anthropocene extinction

Rebellious patients in hospice
crow kiss crocus
locust on lotust
ribbit ribbit participation ribbons
for boiling locomotion

FLASH gaff
Layer upon valuable layer
Aerate radioactive moon craters
Signal Houston
Heil hues and blast off fumes

Exhaust(ed) monsters
binge watchers
spin doctors
biocide pioneers

Ape rapture
mortal aperture
forfeiture of future
forcelose nature

Blight collared minimum wager
domesticated egregore
major in cages
unbridled progress entrainment
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 03 Oct 2020 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15124730
RhetoricThug wrote:
We've been enslaved by the half-truths of language and recycled for Maya maximum. Technology is us repurposing our thoughts.



I think you're only looking at *digital* technology as being 'technology', and forgetting that the digital tech is built on an *industrial* base -- how else do microchips get fabricated in the first place -- ?


RhetoricThug wrote:
And since our thoughts do not originate solely from the individuation of awareness but rather by the amalgamation and multiplication of our interactions,



Yes, our personal identities result from *socialization*, but these days socialization doesn't have to be in-person, or face-to-face. We're able to discuss *politics* -- arguably the most unwieldy of subjects -- on a discussion board on the Internet.
#15124736
ckaihatsu wrote:I think you're only looking at *digital* technology as being 'technology', and forgetting that the digital tech is built on an *industrial* base -- how else do microchips get fabricated in the first place -- ?
You’re new here, aren’t you? I’ve produced many threads which discuss the effects of technology. You should study the transformative power of language-signs-symbols in communication. In any physical system, consciousness is the center of all figure ground interplay.

Yes, our personal identities result from *socialization*, but these days socialization doesn't have to be in-person, or face-to-face. We're able to discuss *politics* -- arguably the most unwieldy of subjects -- on a discussion board on the Internet.
Sociology is a sub domain of existential identity. Ontological identity differs from social contract and construct.
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15124750
RhetoricThug wrote:
You’re new here, aren’t you?



No, not that new -- it's been years now.


RhetoricThug wrote:
I’ve produced many threads which discuss the effects of technology. You should study the transformative power of language-signs-symbols in communication. In any physical system, consciousness is the center of all figure ground interplay.



*Or*, it's the profit motive that drives technological development under capitalism.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Sociology is a sub domain of existential identity. Ontological identity differs from social contract and construct.



No, sociology pertains to *societal*-scale dynamics. 'Existential identity' would be a materialist-psychological study.
By Torus34
#15124855
After a few moments of head-scratching, I've narrowed down on one of the many themes expressed in the OP. It's that of Joe Sixpack not sharing in the largesse of modern technology. That great increase in productivity per person in the workplace could have been translated into greater leisure time for the workers to pursue whatever struck their fancy.

It did not. The reasons are worth pursuing.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

PS. Nice wordsmithing.
By Atlantis
#15124860
RhetoricThug wrote:I think our cultural concept of technological-industrial progress usurped collective interest in a homogenized standard of living. And despite the influence of Moore's law and an increase in assistance from technology, people work longer hours, produce more, and make less money. ...


Technology has been part of human development since the first primate used a stone to crack open a fruit. Humans cannot be separated from technology. Thus, to claim that technology usurped the collective interest makes no sense.

Ants use technology to build ant heaps in the collective interest just like humans use technology to build cities for the collective good.

Today, technology has brought the greatest amount of material prosperity to the greatest number of people ever. Thus, complaints about not getting enough money belong to the lunatic fringe.

Like the American left, you try to analyze the problems of your society by delving into abstract and theoretical concepts totally devoid of reality. The problems of your society are due to the excessive greed that feeds US imperialism and US monopoly capitalism.

Technology and the free market can be used so that it serves the collective. It's a political choice. Technology is neutral. For example, we can reject nuclear technology and chose renewable technology. It's our choice. Blaming an alleged inherent evil in technology that allegedly usurps our interests is just a convenient excuse for ignoring the real problem.

If you feel that modern society takes too much of your time, you can opt out. It's your choice. I have quit the corporate rat race and consumerism more than two decades ago. I grow most of our own food and for paying the bills, I only have to work a couple of days in each months. That's never been possible before. People always had to spend most of their time just to keep the wolf off the backdoor.
By ness31
#15124865
RhetoricThug wrote:http://Www.marauders market murder
and murder markets
quarterly carnage
.com targets social cartilage

Pledge allegiance undertow
overtones of sensory overload
begrudge grievous thievery
open mic media marquee

If it bleeds, it leads, ask the CDC
no reprieve for infectious disease
stay safe and stay at home, fiend
wash your glands and practice good hygiene

Non-culpable candidates
Offer dated ethnocentric destiny
Voter vertigo exorcise dementia foe
United Stake in Amnesia

Nitwit nitpick
panic at the picnic
tap to ad items to wishlist
lickety split!

Stranger danger loot thy neighbors
how much is that baby in a manger
let me ask my monkey wrangler, AI manager
"Siri, Keith Alexander, how much is life worth?"

See something say something
if you got nothing to hide
see something say something
OBEY & ABIDEn blame Trump

Now watch out for bandwidth traffic
DOD DOS tactics
don't forget to wash your hands
learn to speak Chinese and Spanish

There's a curfew in heaven
777-666-9/11, NEVER forget!
stay 6' apart at Buy 'n' Large
or end up 6' under
charged with social credit scars

Confidentially we hire mannequins
that transform like Anakin Skywalker
into insidious masked analysts
for the empire

Bastion of finance
transactional glances
Igasp @latest eye patch
attached to surveillance glass

Virtually craft assasSINs behest
request permission granted
access to tantric rants expanded
pry private prayers for price match
the die was cast and set in bone

#Droningdrone swarms drain gamer's #bluescreen brain
early warning system enter-trained
crypto-arcade hotline-bling supply-chain
COINTELPRO land sea and space

Mastery over all domains
Incinerate remains
Holly stick figures burst into flames
cremate care during the golden error

Bioterror chump chip chimp
chirp-chirp herd in goal mind
FDApproved augmented swine
double-slit piggy gagged on Fitbit
and was met with little resistance

Musky mace covers elongated proto-subspace
Eraserhead muzzles new COVID cases
mass wasting & relentless restlessness
ego quest for Anthropocene extinction

Rebellious patients in hospice
crow kiss crocus
locust on lotust
ribbit ribbit participation ribbons
for boiling locomotion

FLASH gaff
Layer upon valuable layer
Aerate radioactive moon craters
Signal Houston
Heil hues and blast off fumes

Exhaust(ed) monsters
binge watchers
spin doctors
biocide pioneers

Ape rapture
mortal aperture
forfeiture of future
forcelose nature

Blight collared minimum wager
domesticated egregore
major in cages
unbridled progress entrainment


See, this is very good.

Now, the beauty of the internet is that I can’t possibly know if RT is a bot or what would be considered a ‘traditional’ human. I can speculate, but it doesn’t change the origins of the piece or the reaction it elicits.
#15124899
The dawn of agriculture is as potent a behavioral modifier and accelerator as the arrival of Capitalism.
ckaihatsu wrote:*Or*, it's the profit motive that drives technological development under capitalism.
There's a noospheric component driving motive, and capitalism does serve as an operating system (or technique/medium) for human behavior. Nevertheless, technological development is inherent artificium intuitively deployed by humans for adaptation and survival. Survival being a multi-domain effort, with various modes of adaptation, be they mental, physical, coalesce in a human system and redistribute the evolutionary forces said human comes in contact with. IF we seek to discuss causal sequences, it can't be done in terms of linear order. Historical adaptations can only be understood when all aspects of an environmental mosaic are revealed. A multiplex of internal/external stimuli and concurrent feedback loops illicit responses and adaptation in a living organism. Since living organisms are gestalt and historical entities by nature, they contain a multitude of hidden variables that influence dynamic shifts in their adaptation strategies. Consequentially, individual expressions/extensions/configurations of human thought are affected by the whole.

Perhaps you've established an intellectual strategy to integrate aspects of observable stimuli into an analytical and usable political framework. Capitalism conveniently sweeps unknowable dust bunnies under a beautiful socioeconomic pattern. An ornate scheme you've knitted and laid to spruce up the mental entryways to your political agenda.

No, sociology pertains to *societal*-scale dynamics. 'Existential identity' would be a materialist-psychological study.
Many fancy asterisks here, what exactly are you emphasizing? I rarely write a tedious sentence, so there's little need for star signs to aid my profundity. *farts loudly*

The fundamental contribution of existential thought lies in the idea that one’s identity is constituted neither by nature nor by culture, since to “exist” is precisely to constitute such an identity. It is in light of this idea that key existential notions such as facticity, transcendence (project), alienation, and authenticity must be understood.

On the existential view, to understand what a human being is it is not enough to know all the truths that natural science—including the science of psychology—could tell us.


I'd rather approximate the stench and reach of my fart with space aliens than exchange an externalization of precious bodily Prana.






@Torus34 @Atlantis It's about the species, not individual autonomy and leisure. :) Technology redistributes deep ecology. Any extension of the human mind is a natural side-effect of sensory immersion and evolves as one via proxy to the total structure of environmental forces.

@ness31 Yes, the energy responsible for that poem and this post is human. On this particular platform, RT's a projection of consciousness just like you. :music:
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15124916
RhetoricThug wrote:
I think our cultural concept of technological-industrial progress usurped collective interest in a homogenized standard of living. And despite the influence of Moore's law and an increase in assistance from technology, people work longer hours, produce more, and make less money. An ever-increasing population and wealth gap expansion facilitated by social Taylorism has overshadowed any notion of collective bargaining for a standardized quality of life. To prevent consolidation of innovation, we move at the pace of minute particulars colliding with inflationary premises. Herded by massive employment of human intelligence, we rise and fall with the gravitational pull of industrial information systems.



This is actually a good description of current social dynamics, and I think it's congruent with this later statement / analysis of mine:


ckaihatsu wrote:
*Or*, it's the profit motive that drives technological development under capitalism.



---


RhetoricThug wrote:
The dawn of agriculture is as potent a behavioral modifier and accelerator as the arrival of Capitalism.



Yes, the agricultural revolution is what caused human society to produce a *surplus* for the first time ever, which created the initial *class division*, which has driven social 'progress' up to the present.

And capitalism followed from feudalism, much later on, of course.



Gordon Childe described the transformation which occurred in Mesopotamia between 5,000 and 6,000 years ago as people settled in the river valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates. They found land which was extremely fertile, but which could only be cultivated by ‘drainage and irrigation works’, which depended upon ‘cooperative effort’.48 More recently Maisels has suggested people discovered that by making small breaches in the banks between river channels they could irrigate wide areas of land and increase output considerably. But they could not afford to consume all the extra harvest immediately, so some was put aside to protect against harvest failure.49

Grain was stored in sizeable buildings which, standing out from the surrounding land, came to symbolise the continuity and preservation of social life. Those who supervised the granaries became the most prestigious group in society, overseeing the life of the rest of the population as they gathered in, stored and distributed the surplus. The storehouses and their controllers came to seem like powers over and above society, the key to its success, which demanded obedience and praise from the mass of people. They took on an almost supernatural aspect. The storehouses were the first temples, their superintendents the first priests.50 Other social groups congregated around the temples, concerned with building work, specialised handicrafts, cooking for and clothing the temple specialists, transporting food to the temples and organising the long distance exchange of products. Over the centuries the agricultural villages grew into towns and the towns into the first cities, such as Uruk, Lagash, Nippur, Kish and Ur (from which the biblical patriarch Abraham supposedly came).

A somewhat similar process occurred some two and a half millennia later in Meso-America. Irrigation does not seem to have played such a central role, at least initially, since maize was a bountiful enough crop to provide a surplus without it in good years.51 But vulnerability to crop failures encouraged the storage of surpluses and some form of co-ordination between localities with different climates. There was a great advantage for the population as a whole if a specialised group of people coordinated production, kept account of the seasons and looked after the storehouses. Here, too, storehouses turned, over time, into temples and supervisors into priests, giving rise to the successive cultures of the Olmecs, Teotihuacan, the Zapotecs and the Mayas, as is shown by their huge sculptures, magnificent pyramids, temples, ceremonial brick ball courts and elaborately planned cities (Teotihuacan’s population rose to perhaps 100,000 in the early centuries AD).

In both the Middle East and Meso-America something else of historic importance occurred. The groups of priestly administrators who collected and distributed the stockpiles belonging to the temples began to make marks on stone or clay to keep a record of incomings and outgoings. Over time pictorial images of particular things were standardised, sometimes coming to express the sound of the word for the object they portrayed, until a way was provided of giving permanent visual expression of people’s sentences and thoughts. In this way writing was invented. The temple guardians also had time and leisure to make detailed observations of the sky at night, correlating the movements of the moon, the planets and the stars with those of the sun. Their ability to predict future movements and events such as eclipses gave them a near magical status. But they also learnt to produce calendars based on the moon and the sun which enabled people to work out the best time of the year for planting crops. Such efforts led to mathematics and astronomy taking root in the temples, even if in the magical form of astrology. As Gordon Childe put it, ‘The accumulation of a substantial social surplus in the temple treasuries—or rather granaries—was actually the occasion of the cultural advance that we have taken as the criterion of civilisation’.52



Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 19-20




The earliest forms of agriculture, using fairly elementary techniques and involving naturally found varieties of plants and animals, could lead over generations to slow increases in agricultural productivity, enabling some peoples to gain a satisfactory livelihood while continuing to enjoy considerable leisure.45 But conditions were by no means always as idyllic as is suggested by some romanticised ‘noble savage’ accounts of indigenous peoples. There were many cases in which the growth in food output did little more than keep abreast with the rise in population. People were exposed to sudden famines by natural events beyond their control, ‘droughts or floods, tempests or frosts, blights or hailstorms’.46 The history of the pre-Hispanic peoples of Meso-America, for example, is one of years in which they found it easy to feed themselves interspersed with unexpected and devastating famines.47



Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 17-18




The first class divisions

The development of civilisation came at a price. In his account of the rise of urban society Adams writes, ‘Tablets of the sign for “slave girl” ’are to be found at ‘the very end of the protoliterate period’, about 3000 BC. The sign for ‘male slave’ occurs slightly later. This is followed by the first appearance of different terms distinguishing ‘full, free citizen’ and ‘commoner or subordinate status’.55 By this time ‘evidence for class differentiation is all too clear’. In ‘ancient Eshnunna the larger houses along the main roads…often occupied 200 square metres or more of floor area. The greater number of houses, on the other hand, were considerably smaller…having access to the arterial roads only by twisting, narrow alleys… Many do not exceed 50 square metres in total’.56 Adams continues:

At the bottom of the social hierarchy were slaves, individuals who could be bought and sold… One tablet alone lists 205 slave girls and children who were probably employed in a centralised weaving establishment… Other women were known to be engaged in milling, brewing, cooking… Male slaves generally are referred to as the ‘blind ones’ and apparently were employed in gardening operations.57

The emergence of civilisation is usually thought of as one of the great steps forward in human history—indeed, as the step that separates history from prehistory. But it was accompanied wherever it happened by other, negative changes: by the development for the first time of class divisions, with a privileged minority living off the labour of everyone else, and by the setting up of bodies of armed men, of soldiers and secret police—in other words, a state machine—so as to enforce this minority’s rule on the rest of society. The existence of slavery, the physical ownership of some people by others, is palpable proof of this development, not only in Mesopotamia but in many other early civilisations.



Harman, _People's History of the World_, p. 22



Also:


[1] History, Macro Micro -- Precision

Spoiler: show
Image



---


ckaihatsu wrote:
*Or*, it's the profit motive that drives technological development under capitalism.



RhetoricThug wrote:
There's a noospheric component driving motive, and



Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean societal-metaphysical in some way, like the diagram above?


RhetoricThug wrote:
capitalism does serve as an operating system (or technique/medium) for human behavior.



Okay, this is a good metaphor.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Nevertheless, technological development is inherent artificium intuitively deployed by humans for adaptation and survival. Survival being a multi-domain effort, with various modes of adaptation, be they mental, physical, coalesce in a human system and redistribute the evolutionary forces said human comes in contact with. IF we seek to discuss causal sequences, it can't be done in terms of linear order. Historical adaptations can only be understood when all aspects of an environmental mosaic are revealed. A multiplex of internal/external stimuli and concurrent feedback loops illicit responses and adaptation in a living organism. Since living organisms are gestalt and historical entities by nature, they contain a multitude of hidden variables that influence dynamic shifts in their adaptation strategies. Consequentially, individual expressions/extensions/configurations of human thought are affected by the whole.



Yes, and I'll add another diagram that's relevant here, one that *interleaves* with the previous diagram:


History, Macro-Micro -- Political (Cognitive) Dissonance

Spoiler: show
Image



---


RhetoricThug wrote:
Perhaps you've established an intellectual strategy to integrate aspects of observable stimuli into an analytical and usable political framework.



Yup, I like to *think* so.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Capitalism conveniently sweeps unknowable dust bunnies under a beautiful socioeconomic pattern. An ornate scheme you've knitted and laid to spruce up the mental entryways to your political agenda.



If you like -- it could also be called 'sociology', or 'political sociology'.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Many fancy asterisks here, what exactly are you emphasizing? I rarely write a tedious sentence, so there's little need for star signs to aid my profundity. *farts loudly*



Sometimes it's for sentence *pacing*, sometimes it's for *emphasis*, and sometimes it's to highlight a point of argumentation.


RhetoricThug wrote:
The fundamental contribution of existential thought lies in the idea that one’s identity is constituted neither by nature nor by culture, since to “exist” is precisely to constitute such an identity. It is in light of this idea that key existential notions such as facticity, transcendence (project), alienation, and authenticity must be understood.



Well, this is starting to sound like Descartian *dualism* -- 'I think therefore I am' -- which is problematic because it's a theory for the existential individual, but then it can't explain anything *outside* of the individual, so it winds up just being *postmodernism*, basically.

Marx's 'alienation' is a *social* theory and can't be understood solely within the context of the individual.


RhetoricThug wrote:
On the existential view, to understand what a human being is it is not enough to know all the truths that natural science—including the science of psychology—could tell us.



Psychology isn't a *natural* science, it's a *social* one.


Worldview Diagram

Spoiler: show
Image



---


RhetoricThug wrote:
I'd rather approximate the stench and reach of my fart with space aliens than exchange an externalization of precious bodily Prana.


Aaf9xVD2O6k


@Torus34 @Atlantis It's about the species, not individual autonomy and leisure. :) Technology redistributes deep ecology. Any extension of the human mind is a natural side-effect of sensory immersion and evolves as one via proxy to the total structure of environmental forces.

@ness31 Yes, the energy responsible for that poem and this post is human. On this particular platform, RT's a projection of consciousness just like you. :music:
#15125114
Please visit: Consciousness as Content. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=177531
ckaihatsu wrote:Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean societal-metaphysical in some way, like the diagram above?
Developmental evolutionary biology adapts to information ecology, and there's a cybernetic feedback loop constantly driving human action. Humans do not invent anything we only discover and rearrange that which is present. Culture is a noospheric component, and ideas transform chaos into habitable space. The human imagination is responsible for culture. Culture as information ecology affects and redistributes the biosphere.

Thousands of years ago, when we began to crowd into cities, and engineer environments, that was the beginning of the excrescence of mental space. That's what we're living in, and these are all ideas or noospheric components. Unorganized matter put through the anthropocentric mills and presses of design to reshape a world that reflects the world that's living in the noosphere. A world of our imagination. But it has always operated against the background of the laws of physics, the strength of materials, the law of gravity, and we just can't build bridges which span more than X or skyscrapers taller than Y. Nevertheless, in the imagination, wishes are horses beggars ride. This is a multidimensional playing field with unlimited potential to CREATE. I don't think there's a way to manage this THING back down into the equilibrial pastoralism of years ago. We burned those bridges and built new ones.

In essence and existence, humans are the hands of a planetary mind, and the technologies we've assembled are for the purposes of the planetary mind. Surely it must sense the finite nature of the life of the planet and stars. We're an evolutionary strategy for moving planetary energy around. Similar to how animals are a strategy produced by plants for seed dispersal.

Yes, the agricultural revolution is what caused human society to produce a *surplus* for the first time ever, which created the initial *class division*, which has driven social 'progress' up to the present.

And capitalism followed from feudalism, much later on, of course.
Yes, class division was a side-effect of technology. Hence why I said - you should study the transformative power of language-signs-symbols in communication. In any physical system, consciousness is the center of all figure ground interplay.

Well, this is starting to sound like Descartian *dualism* -- 'I think therefore I am' -- which is problematic because it's a theory for the existential individual, but then it can't explain anything *outside* of the individual, so it winds up just being *postmodernism*, basically.
If you go back to my original sentiment, you'd see I was explaining to you why socialization is a contextual and narrow approach to how thoughts develop. It's better to look at existential identity and ontological awareness.

Again: Our thoughts do not originate solely from the individuation of awareness, but rather by the amalgamation and multiplication of our interactions. We're aspects of evolutionary potential experiencing magnified fragments of cosmic energy.

Homo sapiens give consciousness new forms of expression. We're likely to end up extinct because the cosmic energy and planetary mind will generate new appendages/organs. We're living aspects of the universe's potential.






AS for communism, I recommend this thread:The Amish Achieved Communism Before Marx & Engels Critiqued Capitalism viewtopic.php?f=12&t=175024



There is no final revolution. Revolutions are infinite.


-RT
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15125138
RhetoricThug wrote:
Please visit: Consciousness as Content. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=177531Developmental evolutionary biology adapts to information ecology, and there's a cybernetic feedback loop constantly driving human action. Humans do not invent anything we only discover and rearrange that which is present. Culture is a noospheric component, and ideas transform chaos into habitable space. The human imagination is responsible for culture. Culture as information ecology affects and redistributes the biosphere.



If we humans 'do not invent anything', then how can 'the human imagination [be] responsible for culture' -- ?

'Imagination' implies 'invention', even if the 'invention' stays in our mind.

*Tangible* inventions like the internal combustion engine, and microchip, are *not* outgrowths of ecology or developmental evolutionary biology.

Ideas are not what drive inventions, *necessity* is, as in the necessity for better locomotion, or for better mathematical calculation prowess.

By denying the dichotomy between the natural and the unnatural, you're getting stuck in the 'natural' realm, to the logical extents of *absurdity*.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Thousands of years ago, when we began to crowd into cities, and engineer environments, that was the beginning of the excrescence of mental space. That's what we're living in, and these are all ideas or noospheric components.



You haven't defined what 'noospheric' is.

You continue to make all of civilization sound *inter-subjective*, when there are also *material* factors at play, like geography, mineral deposits, agriculture, labor, etc.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Unorganized matter put through the anthropocentric mills and presses of design to reshape a world that reflects the world that's living in the noosphere. A world of our imagination. But it has always operated against the background of the laws of physics, the strength of materials, the law of gravity, and we just can't build bridges which span more than X or skyscrapers taller than Y. Nevertheless, in the imagination, wishes are horses beggars ride. This is a multidimensional playing field with unlimited potential to CREATE. I don't think there's a way to manage this THING back down into the equilibrial pastoralism of years ago. We burned those bridges and built new ones.



Okay, this is a subjective- and inter-subjective-sided description of technological development.


RhetoricThug wrote:
In essence and existence, humans are the hands of a planetary mind, and the technologies we've assembled are for the purposes of the planetary mind. Surely it must sense the finite nature of the life of the planet and stars. We're an evolutionary strategy for moving planetary energy around. Similar to how animals are a strategy produced by plants for seed dispersal.



Actually all animals derive from the *eukaryotic* cell.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Yes, class division was a side-effect of technology. Hence why I said - you should study the transformative power of language-signs-symbols in communication. In any physical system, consciousness is the center of all figure ground interplay.



Or maybe the driving force is *biology's* needs from the environment -- consciousness always lags behind *material necessity*.


RhetoricThug wrote:
If you go back to my original sentiment, you'd see I was explaining to you why socialization is a contextual and narrow approach to how thoughts develop. It's better to look at existential identity and ontological awareness.



I'll *pass*, thanks.


RhetoricThug wrote:
Again: Our thoughts do not originate solely from the individuation of awareness, but rather by the amalgamation and multiplication of our interactions.



Yes, this sentence itself is correct, since we're *social* beings, and we are *shaped* by our socialization process.


RhetoricThug wrote:
We're aspects of evolutionary potential experiencing magnified fragments of cosmic energy.

Homo sapiens give consciousness new forms of expression. We're likely to end up extinct because the cosmic energy and planetary mind will generate new appendages/organs. We're living aspects of the universe's potential.



Oh, you subscribe to the *Gaia* hypothesis -- nope, I *don't*.


RhetoricThug wrote:
AS for communism, I recommend this thread:The Amish Achieved Communism Before Marx & Engels Critiqued Capitalism viewtopic.php?f=12&t=175024



But have the Amish been able to *industrialize* -- ?

For those of them who relent to the outside world by picking up a smartphone, they're then in the same modern condition that the rest of us are in.
#15127291
ckaihatsu wrote:If we humans 'do not invent anything', then how can 'the human imagination [be] responsible for culture' -- ?

'Imagination' implies 'invention', even if the 'invention' stays in our mind.
Purpose or meaning is the only thing we invent. Everything else is discovery, not invention. The word invent means to come into, to contrive (controver and contropare), or to discover (cover completely). Our minds aim to find purpose in discovery. A human aim or goal can't exist unless there're things to discover or rearrange. Human figures pass through environmental grounds, and environmental grounds pass through human figures. It's the figure-ground interplay of a mind-matter interface that produces a cybernetic feedback loop. A resource is quite literally a re-source. We discover phenomena and recover images. Culture is to cultivate discovery as we paint images and grow together.

The human imagination is under the illusion that its figure can become the total ground of experience. :lol: Humorous because the total ground of experience is responsible for all configurations.

Like you, I don't solely exist self-contained. BEING present is a synergistic computational state of relative emergence, convergence, and divergence. In other words, I don't exist.

*Tangible* inventions like the internal combustion engine, and microchip, are *not* outgrowths of ecology or developmental evolutionary biology.
Physical systems occur within a cybernetic feedback loop therefore “Individuality is only possible if it unfolds from wholeness.” The minds behind scientific inquiry-discovery and metaphoric allegory are not individuals, they're amalgamations and individuations of consciousness as it unfolds or evolves in the universe. Intellectual property doesn't exist, it's a social convention given imaginative meaning. Genetic compilation and social makeup consist of historical gestalts. Discoveries are technological adaptations to present information. This is self-evident in language, and the letters we rearrange to transform communication.

Ideas are not what drive inventions, *necessity* is, as in the necessity for better locomotion, or for better mathematical calculation prowess.
What you consider a necessity isn't necessarily necessary. There isn't a universal necessity, even when it's coupled with survival, necessity is stretched by what the imagination can get away with. Would you like a list of historical atrocities, behaviors of serial killers, and more, to prove how fickle necessity can be? Had necessity been a well-defined idea, we'd had stopped this discussion a long time ago. After-all, is this discussion necessary? What's driving your repugnancy? What's driving my rhetorical thuggery?

By denying the dichotomy between the natural and the unnatural, you're getting stuck in the 'natural' realm, to the logical extents of *absurdity*.
No. There's no duality, dichotomy is an imaginative adaption humans use to host a spectrum of meaning. I'm not stuck in any realm, I'm a living expression of a present information bias. You play a role in perceiving what I am, so there's no objective sense in our subjective nonsense. Objectivity implies impartiality, which is impossible for a mind processing partial bits of reality.

You haven't defined what 'noospheric' is.
There's an academic definition and my personal definition and occult definition.

The noosphere is a philosophical concept developed and popularized by the biogeochemist Vladimir Vernadsky, and the French philosopher and Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Vernadsky defined the noosphere as the new state of the biosphere and described as the planetary "sphere of reason"

The noosphere is the total immaterial field of thought that transmutes material aspects of reality.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ∞ ACCESS DENIED

You continue to make all of civilization sound *inter-subjective*, when there are also *material* factors at play, like geography, mineral deposits, agriculture, labor, etc.
Intelligence as an evolutionary expression of the universe is obsessed with merging the total ground (from which all experience arises) with its abstracted figures of fragmented awareness.


Actually all animals derive from the *eukaryotic* cell.
In the chamber of the world. :roll: In the womb of a womb in bloom. :music:


Or maybe the driving force is *biology's* needs from the environment -- consciousness always lags behind *material necessity*.
Yes, your imagination compartmentalizes the movement of it.


Oh, you subscribe to the *Gaia* hypothesis -- nope, I *don't*.
No. But it's clear that if we came from Earth, then it's responsible for all our progress.


Consciousness is a self-organizing self-replicating metamorphic force, it doesn't conform to any idea of finality. The condition of being at an ultimate point of development is a phantasmagoria. There is no final resting place of the mind. The mind is the splitting of consciousness into singletons, consciousness is the universe unfolding ad infinitum.

:rainbow:
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