[Politics_Observer]

This is a good video for Trump supporters watch. The guy in the beginning of the video talks about how the conditions for totalitarianism comes about and how people get educated and informed a certain way (Fox News) rather through objective journalism. Getting manipulated (Trump manipulating and trying to weaponize his followers). How dictators and people like Trump try to tell their followers they are "superior" or "better than" others. To look down on others. To fear others (Trump saying that all Mexicans are gang bangers and rapists or that we should fear immigrants for example). Trump's rallies sort of remind me of what the guy in the beginning of the video talks about when he talks about some of the rallies he saw.

[libertasbella]

Compelling video, and you make fine points. As to whether it will sway voters away from Trump – that begs a few questions. Has comparing Trump to Hitler and his supporters to Nazis proven effective at changing anyone's opinion over the past five years? Have liberal news sources demonstrated themselves as more objective than Fox News? And do Trump supporters exclusively behave as though they're better than others, or is that a faux pas committed just as frequently by Democrats?

[Rancid]

This is a good video for Trump supporters watch. The guy in the beginning of the video talks about how the conditions for totalitarianism comes about and how people get educated and informed a certain way (Fox News) rather through objective journalism. Getting manipulated (Trump manipulating and trying to weaponize his followers). How dictators and people like Trump try to tell their followers they are "superior" or "better than" others. To look down on others. To fear others (Trump saying that all Mexicans are gang bangers and rapists or that we should fear immigrants for example). Trump's rallies sort of remind me of what the guy in the beginning of the video talks about when he talks about some of the rallies he saw.

The mechanisms that Trump uses to hijack the brains of people are very well understood. The thing is, there's not really much anyone can do to stop that. That's how effective a manipulator can be. Think about that friend of yours that has a really nasty manipulative friend, or girlfriend, whatever. No matter how much you tell him he's being used by other people, he just doesn't get it. This is where we are.

[Politics_Observer]

@libertasbella

Compelling video, and you make fine points. As to whether it will sway voters away from Trump – that begs a few questions. Has comparing Trump to Hitler and his supporters to Nazis proven effective at changing anyone's opinion over the past five years?

As far as I can tell, it hasn't. However, somebody needs to tell them the truth. Silence is not an option either. I don't believe in giving any sort of silent approval. It may or may not do any good but if they decide to still follow Trump they can't claim they were never warned. They would have made their choices with fair warning and cannot claim ignorance later on.

Have liberal news sources demonstrated themselves as more objective than Fox News?

There is some bias in every news source. However, despite any biases, a legitimate news source is held to journalistic standards. Fox News doesn't hold itself to high journalistic standards. If news media sources are going to be protected from lawsuits at some level by the law, then the law needs to hold those news sources to high journalistic standards so that people get as objective as possible information from their news sources.

I mean I can't go into a movie theater and falsely yell "fire" falsely claiming there is a fire when there is no fire because it's against the law and for good reason. And if news sources are going to enjoy some level of protection from lawsuits then they should be held to high, objective journalistic standards (without being state owned or controlled but they are regulated and held to objective journalistic standards). It's a fair trade that makes sense. Wouldn't you agree? This would help protect the public from disinformation and manipulation.

And do Trump supporters exclusively behave as though they're better than others, or is that a faux pas committed just as frequently by Democrats?

Obviously not. However, that doesn't excuse Trump encouraging them to view themselves better than others nor does it excuse Trump supporters from looking down on others.

@Rancid

The mechanisms that Trump uses to hijack the brains of people are very well understood. The thing is, there's not really much anyone can do to stop that. That's how effective a manipulator can be. Think about that friend of yours that has a really nasty manipulative friend, or girlfriend, whatever. No matter how much you tell him he's being used by other people, he just doesn't get it. This is where we are.

You are absolutely correct in that manipulators are effective at manipulation. However, silence is not an option either and it's important to tell your fellow countrymen when they are being conned and manipulated. Even if they don't listen. That way you have done your part to speak up and they can't later on claim they were never warned nor can others say I ever gave my silent approval.

[Oxymoron]

This is a good video for Trump supporters watch. The guy in the beginning of the video talks about how the conditions for totalitarianism comes about and how people get educated and informed a certain way (Fox News) rather through objective journalism. Getting manipulated (Trump manipulating and trying to weaponize his followers). How dictators and people like Trump try to tell their followers they are "superior" or "better than" others. To look down on others. To fear others (Trump saying that all Mexicans are gang bangers and rapists or that we should fear immigrants for example). Trump's rallies sort of remind me of what the guy in the beginning of the video talks about when he talks about some of the rallies he saw.

The left has social media, and most of regular media basically shoving Biden down our throats, and silencing any opposition and Trump is the dictator?

[blackjack21]

The guy in the beginning of the video talks about how the conditions for totalitarianism comes about and how people get educated and informed a certain way (Fox News) rather through objective journalism.

Are you really going to contend that so-called mainstream media is objective?

How dictators and people like Trump try to tell their followers they are "superior" or "better than" others.

Trump appealed to people who felt downtrodden and forgotten by the major parties, not people who felt superior. The people who feel superior are the establishment.

The thing is, there's not really much anyone can do to stop that.

They could address the economic conditions that make people prefer Trump to the establishment.

Fox News doesn't hold itself to high journalistic standards.

Both Chris Wallace and John Roberts have attacked the president on the phony racism charge. The fact is that the media is controlled by six global corporations. They have their own agenda.

The left has social media, and most of regular media basically shoving Biden down our throats, and silencing any opposition and Trump is the dictator?

They even censor the New York Post. Biden is back in his bunker until Thursday. Meanwhile, Trump is doing two to three rallies a day with thousands coming to each of them. It's very hard for me to believe these polls.

[Politics_Observer]

@blackjack21

It's not over till it's over. Nobody knows who is going to win the election. Trump can still win. Hopefully he doesn't though.

[Politics_Observer]

@blackjack21

See, Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear. And what the German people needed to hear at that time was the truth. Hitler rose to power, partly because he told people what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear. But most of the time people don't like to hear things they need to hear. But it's got to be done.

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21

See, Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear. And what the German people needed to hear at that time was the truth. Hitler rose to power, partly because he told people what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear. But most of the time people don't like to hear things they need to hear. But it's got to be done.

Far too simplistic an understanding of Hitler and his rise to power. Hitler was elected chancellor in 1933 because the German people wanted war, and they knew Hitler wanted war, a war that would continue the conflict of 1914-1918 and result in victory as a German superpower and world hegemon. Nothing truly different in kind than the dreams Neoconservatives have for America today.

And the truth of the matter was, was that given the historical and material conditions, Germany was realistically poised to accomplish all that had it not been for the winning Allied coalition against them finally coming together. It was an evil dream of Germany's and Hitler's imagination, but it wasn't totally insane.

Trump isn't like Hitler, at all. He's more like a Huey Long or others such as William Jennings Bryan or Stephen Douglass in the long tradition of American Nationalist and Populist politics, except that Trump actually won.

[blackjack21]

It's not over till it's over. Nobody knows who is going to win the election. Trump can still win. Hopefully he doesn't though.

Fair enough, but these Trump rallies are huge compared to Biden rallies. It's not even close. That suggests Trump has enthusiasm and momentum.

See, Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear rather than what they needed to hear.

What in your mind did the German's need to hear? That they should continue to pay reparations for a war they didn't start? That hyperinflation is a-okay? That privation is noble? At that point, Germany hadn't done anything that the British and French Empires hadn't done.

Is this also true of Lenin and Stalin? Did they tell people what they wanted to hear and not what they needed to hear?

Nothing truly different in kind than the dreams Neoconservatives have for America today.

This is the issue I have with the anti-Trump crowd. Biden is part of the neoconservative/neoliberal cabal. He voted for elective wars. Trump didn't start any wars. He actually goes out on the stump campaigning against the wars started by Bush and Obama. I'm puzzled as to why people should be afraid of Trump, but not afraid of people who have an established track record of starting foreign wars.

Trump isn't like Hitler, at all.

I frankly find that comparison of Trump to Hitler baffling. Trump is a populist.

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 , you replied;

This is the issue I have with the anti-Trump crowd. Biden is part of the neoconservative/neoliberal cabal. He voted for elective wars. Trump didn't start any wars. He actually goes out on the stump campaigning against the wars started by Bush and Obama. I'm puzzled as to why people should be afraid of Trump, but not afraid of people who have an established track record of starting foreign wars.

They are afraid of Trump because for 4 years they've been framing the narrative of Trump being ''Hitler'', as to why, it lies with your next comment;

I frankly find that comparison of Trump to Hitler baffling. Trump is a populist.

Hitler was not a ''Conservative'' or ''Right-Winger'' in any meaningful sense. He was a Nationalist and Populist too, a Fascist but in a specifically German way.

But since Hitler was an absolute evil and since we live in an age that doesn't believe in any absolute evils anymore, it's easy to call a man like Trump ''Hitler'' no matter the inaccuracies, since nobody seems to know any history these days for context. It's only allowed to hate Hitler, so if you want permission to hate anyone, you call them ''Hitler'', or ''Nazis''. Conversely, you can call Liberals ''Socialists'' or ''Stalinists'' for not being sufficiently Neo-Liberal/Neo-Conservative, on the other side of the political spectrum...

In other words, words have almost been denuded of their meanings, and there's little actual thought going on. A sign of advanced decrepitude and collective senility.

What does this mean for the future? Eventually reality intrudes whether one tries to magically wish it away or not.

[Politics_Observer]

@blackjack21 @annatar1914

Yes, but have any of you two thought about Ronald Reagan. Heck, I had a lot of respect for Reagan even though I did not agree with some of his policies. I thought, overall, Reagan was a great President despite my disagreeing with his "trickle down" Reaganomics and his firing of the air traffic controllers. Wouldn't republicans prefer to have an inspiring leader like Reagan? I mean isn't that how republicans would like to continue to be regarded? You have to think about how far away the republican party is from the days of Reagan and the respect that Reagan garnered for the republican party both here in the U.S. and abroad. Wouldn't you guys want the republican party to have that kind of universal respect again like it did during the days of Reagan?

[blackjack21]

Hitler was not a ''Conservative'' or ''Right-Winger'' in any meaningful sense. He was a Nationalist and Populist too, a Fascist but in a specifically German way.

I agree. However, the subordinated clause of your second sentence omits a considerable amount. Hitler was clearly blaming Germany's loss in WWI on Jews--specifically the armament workers unions, but more generally Jewish businesses, banks, politicians and propagandists. That's where Hitler and Trump are so very different. Trump is also not interested in starting wars. His detractors claim they are afraid that's what he will do, but they have a very long track record of doing exactly that.

In other words, words have almost been denuded of their meanings, and there's little actual thought going on.

Exactly. That's why 2016 was a great election for me, because both Bush and Clinton were defeated. Biden is the last of that generation that is still standing. There's really no way to explain how he came in fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire and second in Nevada, and candidates with more delegates than Biden mysteriously decided to drop out of the race and hand over their delegate support to the guy who was losing to them; and, then he goes on to select one of the first candidates to drop out of the race before voting even started as his VP. The Democrat party is quite rigged. The Republicans very much expected Jeb Bush to end up on the top of the heap in 2016 too. None of the DNC candidates had the balls to take on Biden and defeat him. It tells you how much they are dependent on big donors.

What does this mean for the future?

Well, I think Rudy et. al. has been sitting on this story for awhile, but it puts in place the final pieces in the Ukraine story. Biden's demand to fire the prosecutor was clearly motivated by Burisma's lobbying the Bidens. The smoking gun is there now.

What's also clear now is that the $3.5M that came from the ex-wife of Moscow's former mayor also involved a bit more than just a wire transfer. She was on the Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) watchlist. So she could just waltz in and open up an account. That took a bit of work too. You'll notice @jimjam is suddenly a bit silent about this, because this is precisely what he accuses Trump of doing with no evidence. When there is irrefutable evidence of the Bidens doing it, suddenly they deny it or go silent.

Yes, but have any of you two thought about Ronald Reagan. Heck, I had a lot of respect for Reagan even though I did not agree with some of his policies.

Why? You've credited Reagan with single-handedly destroying organized labor in the United States, and blamed him for deinstitutionalization as well.

Wouldn't republicans prefer to have an inspiring leader like Reagan?

Look at Trump rallies. His supporters are inspired by him. Did you see people lining the streets in Newport Beach when he went to a private fundraiser. I haven't seen streets lined like that since Reagan died.

You have to think about how far away the republican party is from the days of Reagan and the respect that Reagan garnered for the republican party both here in the U.S. and abroad.

There was no GATT, NAFTA, WTO, MFN status for China, endless wars, political correctness, "wokeness", a government trying to overthrow its own president, etc. We're pretty much focused on the US right now.

Wouldn't you guys want the republican party to have that kind of universal respect again like it did during the days of Reagan?

I'm independent. I really don't care about what becomes of the Republican party. I was happy to see Paul Ryan, Jeff Flake, etc. leave. I'd like to see Susan Collins win only so that the Democrats don't take the Senate. It would bother me personally if she lost though. Even the gay guy from South Carolina wouldn't bother me that much. He was McCain's bitch for so long. I'm basically not a big believer in the party system anymore.

[Politics_Observer]

@blackjack21

I agree that Reagan has single handedly destroyed labor here in the U.S. He wasn't perfect. I don't think he intended to destroy labor either. It's just what happened with some of his decisions. I think overall, Reagan was a good leader and a good person, but like anybody made some bad decision. Just because I have criticized some aspects of Reagan doesn't mean I think he was overall a bad leader or bad guy. Know what I mean?

[Atlantis]

The Nazis in Germany came to power just like the fascists in other countries at the time. When the former aristocratic leading elite was overthrown, most countries did not have the democratic institutions to make a smooth transition from monarchy to democracy. In the resulting political chaos and economic hardship, it wasn't surprising that people elected leaders projecting a strong-man image to bring law and order into the chaos. In Portugal, Spain, Italy and many other countries, dictators took power. In Germany, conditions were particularly dire. Following the abdication of the emperor, the Weimar Republic was plagued by numerous problems. Political killings and street fighting between communists and Nazis were a daily occurrence. The economic recession and super-inflation had reduced many people to poverty. The humiliation and the harsh conditions of the Versailles treaty was resented by most Germans.

Today's America is very different. The US is a powerful and rich country. Objectively, Americans don't have a reason to feel such resentment. Still, many apparently do. Perhaps it's the realization that the American way of life has reached its limits and that there is nothing that can bring it back? Perhaps that instills in Americans the same sort of feeling of loss Germans may have experienced after the collapse of the empire? Climate change denial and the determination to continue promoting fossil fuels show that people are scared of the future and want to maintain their previous life-styles at all costs. Trump promises them that time will stand still and that they can get back to a life that no longer exists.

[jimjam]

You'll notice @jimjam is suddenly a bit silent about this, because

he broke his hip and is hobbling around on crutches.

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 @annatar1914

Yes, but have any of you two thought about Ronald Reagan. Heck, I had a lot of respect for Reagan even though I did not agree with some of his policies. I thought, overall, Reagan was a great President despite my disagreeing with his "trickle down" Reaganomics and his firing of the air traffic controllers. Wouldn't republicans prefer to have an inspiring leader like Reagan? I mean isn't that how republicans would like to continue to be regarded? You have to think about how far away the republican party is from the days of Reagan and the respect that Reagan garnered for the republican party both here in the U.S. and abroad. Wouldn't you guys want the republican party to have that kind of universal respect again like it did during the days of Reagan?

@Politics_Observer ,

I'm a Socialist.

I wouldn't want a ''Reagan'' in office. And you're fooling yourself if you think Liberals would respect a ''Reagan'' these days whether he was a decent good man or not. Hell, that might make them even crazier against him. No, they're not against Trump because he's an asshole, they're really against him because of his Nationalist and Populist Ideology, it's why quite a few old-style Conservatives are against him too. You'll note I compare him to Huey Long in the 1930's a lot because of their very comparable styles and politics. Well, Huey Long was assassinated while mulling over a run for President.

Again I'll go back to my graph of real American politics;

One third of Americans are always ''Liberals'', whatever that is at the time. Now in time they have a lock on the Democratic Party.

One third of Americans are always ''Conservatives'', whatever that is at the time. Now they have a lock on the Republican Party.

One third of Americans are always Nationalists and Populist in thinking, Independent voters. They don't have a political party most of the time, unless one of the two major parties implodes and a new one has to form.

To win elections, the Republicans and Democrats have to win over that third of the people who are Nationalist and Populist. However, they really don't like to do that because they are aware of that third's ideological leanings. Usually though, one side or another is more populist and nationalist itself in the Democrat or GOP camp, or appear to be, and win elections.

What has happened with President Trump though, is that he and his followers are engaged in a takeover of the Republican Party, actually back to where it started. He is a big-government Republican, not a small government conservative.

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 , you said;

I agree. However, the subordinated clause of your second sentence omits a considerable amount. Hitler was clearly blaming Germany's loss in WWI on Jews--specifically the armament workers unions, but more generally Jewish businesses, banks, politicians and propagandists. That's where Hitler and Trump are so very different. Trump is also not interested in starting wars. His detractors claim they are afraid that's what he will do, but they have a very long track record of doing exactly that.

He might still want a war; just a war that the United States might win and win decisively unlike almost any conflict we've been in since 1945.

Exactly. That's why 2016 was a great election for me, because both Bush and Clinton were defeated. Biden is the last of that generation that is still standing. There's really no way to explain how he came in fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire and second in Nevada, and candidates with more delegates than Biden mysteriously decided to drop out of the race and hand over their delegate support to the guy who was losing to them; and, then he goes on to select one of the first candidates to drop out of the race before voting even started as his VP. The Democrat party is quite rigged. The Republicans very much expected Jeb Bush to end up on the top of the heap in 2016 too. None of the DNC candidates had the balls to take on Biden and defeat him. It tells you how much they are dependent on big donors.

I expect that by 2024, they pick a nationalist/populist candidate, or at least a Liberal that a Trump supporter would consider voting for. Either that or they implode.

Well, I think Rudy et. al. has been sitting on this story for awhile, but it puts in place the final pieces in the Ukraine story. Biden's demand to fire the prosecutor was clearly motivated by Burisma's lobbying the Bidens. The smoking gun is there now.

What's also clear now is that the $3.5M that came from the ex-wife of Moscow's former mayor also involved a bit more than just a wire transfer. She was on the Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC) watchlist. So she could just waltz in and open up an account. That took a bit of work too. You'll notice @jimjam is suddenly a bit silent about this, because this is precisely what he accuses Trump of doing with no evidence. When there is irrefutable evidence of the Bidens doing it, suddenly they deny it or go silent.

It looks really bad for the Bidens, to be sure. That's why they're in damage control right now.White people who are ordinarily Liberal voters need an excuse to not vote for him, if not vote for Trump, and so they'll stay home, same as many minority voters will (and more will vote for Trump, again because of his populist and nationalist messaging).

[Rugoz]

No doubt most Trump voters would have voted Hitler if born and raised in Germany at the time. They have the same mindset.

Not a very helpful insight however.

[blackjack21]

Objectively, Americans don't have a reason to feel such resentment. Still, many apparently do.

The "Proletariat" in Marxist lingo has a good reason to feel that they have been betrayed by the establishment, principally because they have been betrayed by the establishment.

Perhaps it's the realization that the American way of life has reached its limits and that there is nothing that can bring it back?

They can bring back 100% of the steel jobs quickly. Just impose high tariffs on steel. The idea that it can't be done is rooted in the idea that the current establishment can be undermined, which is precisely what is happening.

Climate change denial and the determination to continue promoting fossil fuels show that people are scared of the future and want to maintain their previous life-styles at all costs.

China is the largest consumer of coal. It's not the United States by a long shot now. The issue is why should we send our industries overseas just to save a few bucks. The social, economic and political instability isn't worth it.

Trump promises them that time will stand still and that they can get back to a life that no longer exists.

It does exist. It just exists in China now.

he broke his hip and is hobbling around on crutches.

Doh! Hope you're doing alright.

I wouldn't want a ''Reagan'' in office. And you're fooling yourself if you think Liberals would respect a ''Reagan'' these days whether he was a decent good man or not.

They didn't respect him back then.

One third of Americans are always Nationalists and Populist in thinking, Independent voters. They don't have a political party most of the time, unless one of the two major parties implodes and a new one has to form.

Well that's interesting. In 2016, Democrats had a voter registration advantage. Something like 35% to 27%. Trump still won. Now it's like 28% Republicans, 27% Democrats, and 40+ independent. Independent voters (like me) are the largest faction in American politics now, which is why it's desperately difficult for the establishment to predict electoral outcomes now.

He might still want a war; just a war that the United States might win and win decisively unlike almost any conflict we've been in since 1945.

Where do you see that happening? I seem him more like Reagan, building a military he never really uses.

I expect that by 2024, they pick a nationalist/populist candidate, or at least a Liberal that a Trump supporter would consider voting for. Either that or they implode.

I don't see any signs of the political correctness/woke stuff abating right now. It's going to take a few more losses I think for that to wane.

Here's a good video for Politics_Observer to watch: