An idea for a more representative UK parliament. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15145845
First post here, but I've been on politicsforum for a while.

The main idea, have each government department have a representative elected, rather than the winning party assigning people to it.
Having them campaign on the specific policies they will push, rather than having a full party manifesto.

Then having independent MPs elected to vote, as today, but without party interference.

What do you think. Obviously it's just a basic idea, rather than fully fleshed out
#15145909
Just to be clear on the proposal: we all (tens of millions) each vote for a Chancellor, a Foreign Secretary, a Home Secretary, etc. - so 10, 15 or 20 times? And also for a local MP?

If it's "without party interference", does that mean political parties would be illegal? What happens if a Foreign Secretary candidate and a Defence Secretary candidate say they want to cooperate on policy - are they forming a party?
#15146681
I suggested this before, and for the US also.

Have about 5 to 7 MP represent each district. These districts would be 5-7 of the old districts combined into one.

Let each voter have that many votes.
They can vote for up to that many candidates.
Have the vote counting machines split their vote evenly between the people they voted for.
Have that many people win, that is, the ones with the most fractional votes win one of the 5-7 seats.
Parties can run less than a full slate to avoid splitting their vote too much.
Minor parties would run just 1 per district.
This system lets minor parties win some seats, but it retains the idea that the MPs represent certain districts. As I understand the proportional system, the voters don't have a link to any specific MP.
#15146682
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:Just to be clear on the proposal: we all (tens of millions) each vote for a Chancellor, a Foreign Secretary, a Home Secretary, etc. - so 10, 15 or 20 times? And also for a local MP?


In a directorial system you have fewer ministers. But of course they make important decisions collectively (i.e. they vote), not everyone only for his department. I don't see how that would work.
#15171254
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:Just to be clear on the proposal: we all (tens of millions) each vote for a Chancellor, a Foreign Secretary, a Home Secretary, etc. - so 10, 15 or 20 times? And also for a local MP?
If it's "without party interference", does that mean political parties would be illegal? What happens if a Foreign Secretary candidate and a Defence Secretary candidate say they want to cooperate on policy - are they forming a party?
Indeed, it would definitely require more voting. It would also make the system more representative.
Less votes for the party which you disagree with the least. Less votes for parties based on a single matter.

As I said at the end, it's just a basic idea. So whether parties would be made illegal, or what could be done to stop 2 candidates or elected officials co-operating on policy, would need to be decided.
That said, 2 people co-operating, is hardly an established policitcal party.
#15171256
B0ycey wrote:Just change FPTP to proportional representation. That is all you need to do. And something anyone who supports democracy should be advocating in any case.
PR is the better of the 2 options, direct democracy being impossible, as well as somewhat irresponsible due to the lack of knowledge for political matters in the general population, which is why we have elected reps, whose sole job shouldto be informed and vote on the political matters.
#15171341
B0ycey wrote:Just change FPTP to proportional representation. That is all you need to do. And something anyone who supports democracy should be advocating in any case.

I wish that were true.

I have opposed FPTP since I first joined a political party (Liberal) as a youth member in 1983. But it isn't a magic bullet and one could say it was putting the cart before the horse. FPTP endures because it gives disproportionate and sole power to one party, and both governments and oppositions in our warped, two-party system are more interested in wielding sole power, according to their ideological playbooks, than they are in representing the people.

First we need to radically reform our parliament and legislature before we determine the method by which we elect people to it. For a start, I would disband or repurpose the Whips' offices. This would force governments to make a clearer, more coherent and collegiate case for any legislation or policy they proposed, because they could not rely on their seat majority. Furthermore, it would liberate MPs to vote for what they believed was right and/or what they believed their constituents would want.

I would also require two-thirds majorities for any Act of Parliament or amendment thereto, again forcing the ruling party to be more honest and have to recruit support from other parties.

I would support an elected upper chamber...but only if all members were independents. The purpose of an upper chamber is for (generally) older, wiser, less ideologically zealous parliamentarians to look at what the lower chamber has produced and have scope to moderate it and to identify and highlight any flaws or the potential for unintended consequences.

I would also call for an overhaul of the parliamentary schedule. True story; about fifteen years ago I was secretary to a committee that oversaw military mental health in the UK Armed Forces and, at one meeting in London, we were unexpectedly interrupted by a delegation of lawyers and civil servants from both the MOD and the Dept of Health. They were working concurrently on a new Armed Forces Act and a new Mental Health Act and they needed our specialist, professional advice...but they had to have the answers they sought within ninety minutes, because they then had to dash back to their respective ministries and have the final drafts complete by 5pm, because of the tight parliamentary timelines. That's not just silly...given the gravity of what it was they were asking about (specifically, the deprivation of liberty on the grounds of mental health of service personnel - or what's called 'sectioning' someone here in the UK) it was grossly irresponsible and dangerous. Subject Matter Expert advice on matters of grave import should be sought weeks, if not months before any legislation is drafted.

But what's also needed is more education about politics. Just as a small example, the media and many individual electors put a lot of store by an MP's voting record, but what many fail to appreciate (I think the media appreciate it, but like to manipulate it to generate good headlines) is that a legislature is about making laws and many politicians will vote against a law, not because they disagree with the intent of the law but because they have concerns about the wording, lack of scrutiny or planned implementation of it. So it's easy to say, "Tory MP votes against outlawing <choose anything despicable that fits>" when in fact the MP may be passionately opposed to whatever it was, but sincerely believes that the proposed law, as drafted, would have negative unintended consequences and/or make the problem worse rather than better.

Also, the Russians are apparently not fans of Isr[…]

Some examples: https://twitter.com/OnlinePalEng/s[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

I do not have your life Godstud. I am never going[…]

He's a parasite

Trump Derangement Syndrome lives. :O