Playing Sim-Life with billions of real people's lives - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15149600
Al Jazeera wrote:US unveils plans to counter China’s rise in Asia

In a new document, the US says it wants to counter China’s ‘predatory economic practices’, ‘accelerate India’s rise’ and help Taiwan ensure its ‘freedom from coercion’.


Image

"Squish China, build up India, and keep Taiwan separated."

So imagine you could play a video game like "The Sims" but instead of digital humans, the "Sims" that you are manipulating are actually billions of real people with billions of real lives.

If you get distracted by a lot of text messages or by ambiant noise in your bedroom, you could make decisions that end up killing half of your sims. Luckily, these sims aren't real or your weak shepherding skills and lack of real interest could do a lot of harm to other people whose lives are just as real as your own.

So who gets to play Sim Life with billions of real people?
And who exactly gave *someone* permission to play morbid games with other people's destiny this way? I hope the State Department Sim players have a permission slip from the creator of the universe, signed and dated.

...

As outlined in the above-mentionned article, here are the first two strategies for getting what the State Department gamers want from "its" worldwide Sims:

1. Assumes China “aims to dissolve U.S. alliances and partnerships in the region. China will exploit vacuums and opportunities created by these diminished bonds.”
What do you call it when Western colonists get kicked out of a country? "A vacuum," apparently. This use of the word "vacuum" suggests that only Western Power is a real thing. Everything else is aggressive nothingness (a vaccum).

2. “China seeks to dominate cutting-edge technologies, including artificial intelligence and bio-genetics, and harness them in the service of authoritarianism. Chinese dominance in these technologies would pose profound challenges to free societies.”
The Sim players assume that they are freedom, and that China is the opposite of this entity. Yet, all the technologies mentionned are controlling-technologies which the Sim players are seeking as well.
...

There are four more strategies mentionned in the article, but they are all a lot like these two. They all make it clear that the mafia doesn't take kindly to losing market share.

soundtrack
#15149887
Ganeshas Rat wrote:Isn't the government of China the ones who play Sims with billions of people? I mean the party literally gives people experience points based on if they do party-approved things or not. With unlockable abilities on each level. They put a billion of people into RPG.

-5 social credits for you.
#15149891
QatzelOk wrote:
Al Jazeera



Pompeo has been trying to screw things up, to make life harder for Biden.

So that's prob what this is about. Biden will undo as much of that as he can. He will also open diplomatic discussions with the Chinese, trying to get the mess straightened out.
#15150231
Rancid wrote:The citizen rating system in China is going to get a lot of people imprisoned and/or killed.

It's very reassuring to assume that the great game is "over there" and not right in your face. But I don't think we should be reassuring people about this kind of oligarchy abuse of normal people. Or pretending that it's not also "over here."

This fake-god playing with people's REAL LIVES has been the work of empires for a long, long time. And the USA empire has been the most recent one to examine to learn from, but ANY empire is capable or reducing the existence of the world's people to "pet" status. Or worse.

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Great Game definitions

1. Great Game (wiki)
The strategic rivalry and conflict between the British Empire and the Russian Empire for supremacy in Central Asia, mainly during the 19th century.

2. The New Great Game (wiki)
In the late 1990s, some journalists used the expression "The New Great Game" to describe what they proposed was a renewed geopolitical interest in Central Asia based on the mineral wealth of the region which was becoming available to foreign interests after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

3. Game (Free Dictionary)
An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime.

...

Look at def. Number 3. A pastime for bored rich people = torturing people with experimental technology and behaviorism. My sister used to pull the wings off of flies when she was 6, so maybe this is that kind of pastime that rich people enjoy on a larger scale.

And notice def. number 2 and it's mention of "interest in pillaging the resources of central Asia" without mentionning the USA, 911, Afghanistan, Mujahadeen, Iraq, and all of the other pawns that our playful oligarchs have in this game.

Being a pawn means "no dignity."

...

My own "Great Game" idea
#15150239
China has a social rating system, no transparency, no journalists, no whistleblowers, she has total and absolute control over all companies, individuals, organisations operating in China and everything is screened.

Her fascist system is efficient and the stuff of dreams for a lot of people at the top of the ladder all around the world.

She poses a massive danger to our way of life directly and indirectly.

Sooner or later a lot of people will start singing the praises of the fascist system, its efficiency, security, technocracy and the simpler life without the trouble of politics. A lot of Chinese apologists are already doing it with her Covid response, under which a party member is assigned to a neighbourhood and needs to pre-approve people's exit from their door and monitor that exit, even to throw away garbage. If they don't they get negative social rating(too many of those and no holidays, or some other creative punishment) and imprisonment.

Fascism will always be more efficient in controlling things than open democracies, however problematic these democracies may be. And that allure can become very dangerous if it is the system of the most powerful country in the world, it will be exported and once this begins it's like a snowball.

I think it is already too late for appeasement and integration efforts, China needs to be blocked off all western markets and their allies. She needs to understand what access to western markets mean for her economy and what is the price for that access. The price cannot be anything less than a total and absolute dismantling of her fascist government and her transition to an open liberal economy.

Without these conditions there should be no trade. Western corporations must learn to live without China.
#15150266
noemon wrote:China has a social rating system, no transparency, no journalists, no whistleblowers, she has total and absolute control over all companies, individuals, organisations operating in China and everything is screened.

Her fascist system is efficient and the stuff of dreams for a lot of people at the top of the ladder all around the world.

She poses a massive danger to our way of life directly and indirectly.

Still nothing here about our own situation.

Western money has been playing God with the world for almost a 500 years, and all you can worry about is what China is doing. I'm sure that even in fascist countries, it is permitted to criticize unabsorbed foreigners like you have done.

But what about our own Western billionaires and all the world trouble that they sow. The way they "make plans" that take away the agency of billions of people, including us? Do you want to give them a free pass, and then try to cover for them by pointing to foreign countries instead of people who look a lot like you and me?

This seems to be a strategy for AVOIDING a serious conversation.
#15150269
Still nothing from you about the very real danger of China. You made an OP criticising those trying to contain her. You were given reasons why she needs to be contained and you have nothing to say about those valid reasons.

Do you disagree that western corporations should learn to live without China?

QatzelOk wrote:I'm sure that even in fascist countries, it is permitted to criticize unabsorbed foreigners like you have done.


Why are you sure that fascist China permits any kind of criticism, let alone the one coming from "unabsorbed foreigners"? She imprisons anyone(native or foreign) that may report anything that can be construed as negative.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -crackdown

For how long are you going to keep ignoring this very real danger to your own way of life? And how prejudiced do you need to be to ignore this while pretending to care about "western capitalism". I don't believe that you do care about injustice or the problems of capitalism, I can see that this is simply a stick you use to beat the west because bottom line is that you 're just a football fan that hates the west, everything else is secondary for you even if it means losing your own way of life.

I can see your nihilism coming from a mile away coming in lieu of something productive to say.
#15150312
noemon wrote:Still nothing from you about the very real danger of China. You made an OP criticising those trying to contain her.

I guess you read it too quickly to digest its message. What I am pointing to is that a handful of very wealthy and powerful men seem to think that the rest of the world is a video game that they can play.

You say "China needs to be contained," which sounds like something that a teenage gamer would say about some adversary on the screen. The teenage boy believes that he needs to "have full control" of the little animated armies and images on his screen. But the "China" you are pining to control has a billion and a half humans just like you. Do they have any useful opinions on "who should be contained" or should we just listen to you because you have a gameboy in your hand?

How in the world can a few men "know" what needs to "happen" to a billion and a half people on the other side of the world? And how much of a future do any of us have as long as a few men get together and "game" our futures as just a few pixels on their screen?

Also, China-bashing is a way of avoiding looking at problems that are HUMAN in nature. You are the one who tried to make this thread into an US-versus-Evil thread, not me. For me, the "evil" is in poor governance structure, and having a handful of tyrants scheming about "what to do about a billion people on the other side of the world" is evil. Harmful. Destructive to what it means to be human (and not a character on a video game).

I find that you are imitating the dead-end tactic of the Western Elite in this thread (the gamers I am most familiar with, and so are you).

Vijay Prashad wrote:Rather than tackle the great social and economic challenges within the U.S., its ruling class has taken refuge in anti-Chinese rhetoric.
#15150321
Instead of trying to insult your interlocutor to make no point at all, try to have an actual conversation if at all possible.

Do you disagree that western corporations should learn to live without China?

I have seen numerous posts of yours where you criticise the western corporation that have fled to China to take advantage of its slave labour. Are you suddenly for it?

Now, that I am saying that this needs to stop, you are insulting me for saying it. :lol:

Do they have any useful opinions on "who should be contained" or should we just listen to you because you have a gameboy in your hand?


I have my logic, my wit and my arguments in my hand, what are you holding in your hand?

But the "China" you are pining to control has a billion and a half humans just like you.


I am not trying to control China, I have no control over China, but I do have an opinion about what we(the west should do).

I am saying that our businesses should not have anything to do with China. They should learn to live without China.

Why do you think that's wrong?

The social and economic challenges will never be solved unless our corporations return home from China and employ local people instead of Chinese slave labour.
#15150327
noemon wrote:I am not trying to control China, I have no control over China, but I do have an opinion about what we(the west should do). .

So you seem to be saying that our gang (our masters) which we often call "the West" (aka the banksters of the West) needs to control a billion and a half people in China. Like it tries to control a billion people in the Americas, and another billion in Eurasia, etc.

Make them move like drones or robots or house pets. Maybe shoot at their feet to make 'em dance real pretty!

Are humans just wind-up dolls that "superior humans" need to control? Does this maximize the human experience and dignity?

Is this the way "God" intended it to be while he was playing videogames with raw matter in space?
#15150332
I am saying that our businesses should not have anything to do with China. They should learn to live without China.

Why do you think that's wrong?

The social and economic challenges will never be solved unless our corporations return home from China and employ local people instead of Chinese slave labour.
#15150394
noemon wrote:
I am saying that our businesses should not have anything to do with China. They should learn to live without China.

Why do you think that's wrong?

The social and economic challenges will never be solved unless our corporations return home from China and employ local people instead of Chinese slave labour.



Won't work, not that you could ever make it happen in the first place.
#15153491


Here is one of many recordings of Madeline Albright responding about a question about the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children because of the American bombing and warring there. She replies, "We think the price is worth it."

Stop and think about that.

**500,000 Iraqi children's lives is the price of controlling the middle east for five more minutes**

Now, Madeline Albright is a fallible human being, just like anyone. We all say some things that we regret later, or perhaps wish we had said in a different way, or off-camera. Or not at all.

But here, by saying "We think" and not "I think," she appears to be speaking for *the oligarch class.*

If that's who she is representing in this conversation, then she is saying that the oligarch class are playing a video game to win black gold, regular gold, influence points, Israel bonus points (rescue the princess), but, in order to win this game, the oligarches needed to sacrifice 500,000 "other people" lives.

So they lost a few hundred PR points in the game. Big deal. Totally worth it.

For them, this is all abstract, digital lives being lost in order to accumulate abstract, digital money and influence, and to further their abstract projects in the region.

For the dead children and their families... they probably thought that they were not part of a video game for Madeline Albright's pals.

And neither are you or I. I hope.
#15153911
"Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."



Ann Coulter (one of the most beautiful middle-aged corporate lawyers in the USA) made a similar statement to the above quote right after the World Trade towers fell in 2001. She is saying that "the West" should change the government-religion of a region.

HERE'S HOW THIS GAME STRATEGY WORKS

Position your cursor onto a "resource-rich Muslim country" tile, and click on it so that the government style pops up in a little window above the game map.

Inside the government-style window, click "change to Christianity," but before clicking "validate," the game will tell you how many people might be killed in the process and how much money it will cost you.

"Do you still want to convert the country and kill its leaders? VALIDATE"

Click on the validate button, and the game algorithms will decide whether the country converts or not. Whether the country converts or not, the number of people killed remains unchanged.

Bonus: If you successfully convert a nation, you can try to steal their resources by clicking on the "pillage" button after any successful conversion. You may retry to pillage resources every five turns, in every "resource-rich Muslim country" that you control.

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#15155413
QatzelOk wrote:Image

"Squish China, build up India, and keep Taiwan separated."



I really hate my computer sometimes. I can't edit my earlier post, so here goes try two.

QatzelOk wrote:"Squish China, build up India, and keep Taiwan separated."


So, you go on a rant about American policies that treat people's lives like a game, while ignoring a regime that has literally killed millions of people for dissent? You understand you are a raging hypocrite right?

QatzelOk wrote:It's very reassuring to assume that the great game is "over there" and not right in your face. But I don't think we should be reassuring people about this kind of oligarchy abuse of normal people. Or pretending that it's not also "over here."

This fake-god playing with people's REAL LIVES has been the work of empires for a long, long time. And the USA empire has been the most recent one to examine to learn from, but ANY empire is capable or reducing the existence of the world's people to "pet" status. Or worse.


Well, yes. You could be run over with a tank. You could be imprisoned for speaking out against the government. You could be shot in the head after a summary trial where you refused to admit your guilt.

But you don't have a problem with that, because those abuses aren't committed by America. Apparently non-whites doing terrible things to other non-whites is fine, but heaven forbid whites get involved. That really does seem to be your schtict.

Being a pawn means "no dignity."


Being told how many children you can have is no dignity. Being told what websites you can look at (those are too "pro-West" or "anti-China" no no) is no dignity. When you are starving to death or run over by a tank, you couldn't care less about dignity, because, well, you're dead or dying.

But, again, you don't care about this, because only white capitalist things offend you. That these people do far more damage to "those icky foreigners" than the rich white "racists" you spend all your hatred on doesn't matter to you. Because it's not about the poor minorities...it's about advancing your ideology.

Shameful.
#15155427
Wolvenbear wrote:So, you go on a rant about American policies that treat people's lives like a game, while ignoring a regime that has literally killed millions of people for dissent? You understand you are a raging hypocrite right?

The tendency for governments and other top-down institutions to control and restrain everyone... is a universal principle. The reason I use Western examples is because 1. It's the one I'm most familiar with 2. The UK and USA (with Western allies) have been the hegemon for most of the last 3 centuries. So they provide the best recent examples of the exercise of this "video game with human lives" that rich isolated hegemons play - if they are allowed to.

Shameful.

This is a witch costume. Go throw someone else into a stream to see if they float.
#15155881
QatzelOk wrote:The tendency for governments and other top-down institutions to control and restrain everyone... is a universal principle. The reason I use Western examples is because 1. It's the one I'm most familiar with 2. The UK and USA (with Western allies) have been the hegemon for most of the last 3 centuries. So they provide the best recent examples of the exercise of this "video game with human lives" that rich isolated hegemons play - if they are allowed to.


This is a witch costume. Go throw someone else into a stream to see if they float.


Or I could use the simpler "If it looks like a communist and quacks like a communist..." test. Even ignoring your history...Here you have argued that it is not just wrong, but immoral and CRIMINAL, a crime against humanity itself, to interfere with the internal policies of Communist China (even if they're not exactly internal...). Stopping China from doing things that are against America's interests somehow harms the Chinese people.

Then, when called on it, you demur and say "Well, ignore what I'm ACTUALLY advocating. I suddently don't know anything about China, and don't want to discuss China, because it hurts my point. Just make up an argument for me that's not ridiculously dishonest, and let's pretend that's what I said."

Of course, we can see by your later two posts that you are all about blaming America, even if it means lying about what Ann Coulter and Madeline Albright said. "Ignore actual tyranny and evil. If you deliberately take these two women dramatically out of context, it is mildly offensive to people looking to be offended.
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