Lawlessness in San Fransisco - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15177253
CNN was showing this video and it really struck a nerve with me. Why didn't anybody tackle this guy and hold him down until the police showed up (presumably after calling the police)? They have been talking about the lawlessness in San Fransisco and if San Fransisco has this kind of lawlessness this is definitely a case where I would apply for a concealed carry permit for a firearm if I had to live in a lawless city like that. They say organized crime has been behind a lot of these thefts. San Fransisco needs to get their shit together and lock these people up. Wal Greenes has been saying they have been closing stores down in San Fransisco because of the lawlessness and the thefts. Business can't conduct business or make any money when their is no rule of law. Where is the rule of law in San Fransisco? Can you believe this!? What an outrage!

#15177260
Politics_Observer wrote:CNN was showing this video and it really struck a nerve with me. Why didn't anybody tackle this guy and hold him down until the police showed up (presumably after calling the police)? They have been talking about the lawlessness in San Fransisco and if San Fransisco has this kind of lawlessness this is definitely a case where I would apply for a concealed carry permit for a firearm if I had to live in a lawless city like that. They say organized crime has been behind a lot of these thefts. San Fransisco needs to get their shit together and lock these people up. Wal Greenes has been saying they have been closing stores down in San Fransisco because of the lawlessness and the thefts. Business can't conduct business or make any money when their is no rule of law. Where is the rule of law in San Fransisco? Can you believe this!? What an outrage!




I wont advise any bystander to do anything. I wont even advise a cop to do anything beyond a fake,, half hearted chase. Not in San Francisco. Not in any Democrat run city.

Seriously? You are asking some bystander to have tackled this guy? What if this fine guy on a bike, hungry and out to get food for his family, got injured? Imagine if this fine gentleman- I could not tell his hue from the video- turned out to be of a nice coffee brown shade? And God forbid the tackler was a privileged white man? Even worse, imagine if the cop tackling this fine citizen of San Francisco was a privileged white man? Imagine if this fine citizen of San Francisco fractured a leg or arm from a brutal tackle by some privileged white man?

Come on, Political_Observer, you need to get woke, bro. :lol: City Attorneys in liberal cities dont prosecute behaviours such as outraged you, which are actually cases of victims under the burden of systemic injustice struggling for survival.
#15177261
@Juin

He just comes right in, in broad daylight, steals from the store even when he knows he is being video taped and just steals a bunch of items and then bikes right out like it was a bike joy ride in the park. No consequences or accountability. Nobody does anything. No police present. So, I guess it's fair to ask my fellow democrats if this is what they want when they say "defund the police?" I hear San Fransisco is short staffed when it comes to police officers. Wal Greenes is moving out and doesn't want to do business in San Fransisco which can hurt jobs for those who live in that city.
#15177264
Walgreens in California recently lost a class action civil suit and had to pay tens of millions of dollars for wage theft.

Wage theft is when a company withholds payment or benefits that an employee is contractually due.

Wage theft is not a crime. So Walgreen stealing millions of dollars from an employee is not a crime, but this theft of a few grocery items is a crime.

Personally, I can see why no one called the cops on this guy since it was a hundred bucks at most. The other thief in this video (i.e. Walgreen) stole much more and will never have the cops called on them.
#15177265
Politics_Observer wrote:@Juin

He just comes right in, in broad daylight, steals from the store even when he knows he is being video taped and just steals a bunch of items and then bikes right out like it was a bike joy ride in the park. No consequences or accountability. Nobody does anything. No police present. So, I guess it's fair to ask my fellow democrats if this is what they want when they say "defund the police?" I hear San Fransisco is short staffed when it comes to police officers. Wal Greenes is moving out and doesn't want to do business in San Fransisco which can hurt jobs for those who live in that city.




True. I cannot agree with you more. But I must point out, even though I am not a Democrat, that this does not reflect the position of the vast majority of Democrats. What we have here is a consequence of the push by a minority, far left, uber actvist wing that appears not to have examined carefully what they are pushing for.
#15177266
@Juin

I agree, you can't go from one extreme to the other. You have to have that happy balance middle ground. But it seems each side wants to go their side of the extreme which just creates more problems (both democrats and republicans). So, you have these extreme elements in each party that push too hard either to the right or left with disastrous consequences. This is why I have always preached having a balance and middle ground.
#15177267
@Juin

You can see the "bystander effect" in this situation where when multiple people witness a crime and just stand there and do nothing. "Bystander effect" is something that I am very familiar with from my past. Countries engage in the "bystander effect" too like hesitating or doing nothing in the face of genocide for example. We see this effect in the video with people. Somebody should have tackled this guy and fought with him if necessary and restrained him while somebody else called the police. People have to fight against being part of the "bystander effect" and take action and do the right thing.

Edit:

Here is more information from an authoritative source on the "bystander effect."

Ruud Hortensius and Beatrice de Gelder wrote:When people are asked whether they would spontaneously assist a person in an emergency situation, almost everyone will reply positively. Although we all imagine ourselves heroes, the fact is that many people refrain from helping in real life, especially when we are aware that other people are present at the scene. In the late 1960s, John M. Darley and Bibb Latané (1968) initiated an extensive research program on this so-called “bystander effect.”


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6099971/
#15177272
Proposition 47 downgraded theft of property valued below $950 from felony to misdemeanor, effectively giving shoplifters the green light to commit crimes as long as the merchandise they steal are less than $950 in value. Proposition 47 meant to reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors in order to free up resources for cops to focus on violent offenders. Retail stores in California instructed their security staffers to avoid pursuing suspects because they cannot call the police afterwards to arrest them. In most states, an officer can't arrest an adult for a misdemeanor without a warrant, unless the misdemeanor occurs "in the presence" of the officer. These shoplifters are selling stolen merchandise on eBay or some other online sites, reaping profits from the sale.
#15177273
Politics_Observer wrote:CNN was showing this video and it really struck a nerve with me. Why didn't anybody tackle this guy and hold him down until the police showed up (presumably after calling the police)? They have been talking about the lawlessness in San Fransisco and if San Fransisco has this kind of lawlessness this is definitely a case where I would apply for a concealed carry permit for a firearm if I had to live in a lawless city like that. They say organized crime has been behind a lot of these thefts. San Fransisco needs to get their shit together and lock these people up. Wal Greenes has been saying they have been closing stores down in San Fransisco because of the lawlessness and the thefts. Business can't conduct business or make any money when their is no rule of law. Where is the rule of law in San Fransisco? Can you believe this!? What an outrage!



No amount of merchandise is worth your life. Some of these people do carry weapons Politics Observer. The job of stopping him is the security guard. Neither the cashier nor the customers should risk injury or danger in a store protecting merchandise that is being stolen.

California doesn't have money for pursuing theft charges. I think that is very strange. Who came up with this idea eh? Here in Mexico, no one likes thieves. The problem is that the court system doesn't work. About 95% of violent crime is never investigated or prosecuted. So? It continues. You need law and order but it should be just. People who steal should not be shot. They need to detained and questioned and the merchandise returned and then the thief needs to go to psychological sessions. Because the reason many thieves steal has to do with a lack of impulse control and just shameless behavior. They rarely do it for any good reason it is mostly just the idea of getting something for nothing.
#15177277
ThirdTerm wrote:Proposition 47 downgraded theft of property valued below $950 from felony to misdemeanor, effectively giving shoplifters the green light to commit crimes as long as the merchandise they steal are less than $950 in value. Proposition 47 meant to reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors in order to free up resources for cops to focus on violent offenders. Retail stores in California instructed their security staffers to avoid pursuing suspects because they cannot call the police afterwards to arrest them. In most states, an officer can't arrest an adult for a misdemeanor without a warrant, unless the misdemeanor occurs "in the presence" of the officer. These shoplifters are selling stolen merchandise on eBay or some other online sites, reaping profits from the sale.


Interesting information. Now, that explains why no one did anything at all.

Also, as for bystanders, I don't think it's that simple since a bystander would risk being stabbed if he or she intervened. And one can't compare this with genocide.
#15177281
@Tainari88

Tainari wrote:No amount of merchandise is worth your life. Some of these people do carry weapons Politics Observer. The job of stopping him is the security guard. Neither the cashier nor the customers should risk injury or danger in a store protecting merchandise that is being stolen.


Where I am from, this criminal would have been tackled and arrested when the police showed up. Many criminals who try to rob store owners with weapons also really do and honestly get shot in many cases by the store owners in my local area. If the criminal that attempted to commit armed robbery on a store owner is lucky enough to survive his wounds, the police will have them handcuff to their hospital bed ready to transport them to jail when they are discharged from the hospital.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 18 Jun 2021 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
#15177282
ThirdTerm wrote:Proposition 47 downgraded theft of property valued below $950 from felony to misdemeanor, effectively giving shoplifters the green light to commit crimes as long as the merchandise they steal are less than $950 in value. Proposition 47 meant to reduce non-violent felonies to misdemeanors in order to free up resources for cops to focus on violent offenders. Retail stores in California instructed their security staffers to avoid pursuing suspects because they cannot call the police afterwards to arrest them. In most states, an officer can't arrest an adult for a misdemeanor without a warrant, unless the misdemeanor occurs "in the presence" of the officer. These shoplifters are selling stolen merchandise on eBay or some other online sites, reaping profits from the sale.


This defies belief but I've read about it and yeah, it's real.

California is seeing an exodus into Texas. The rich gated community migrants are going to turn that state into the same farce they turned California into by voting in the demonrats. What is wrong with those people? Why are they like this?
#15177284
Politics_Observer wrote:@Juin

You can see the "bystander effect" in this situation where when multiple people witness a crime and just stand there and do nothing. "Bystander effect" is something that I am very familiar with from my past. Countries engage in the "bystander effect" too like hesitating or doing nothing in the face of genocide for example. We see this effect in the video with people. Somebody should have tackled this guy and fought with him if necessary and restrained him while somebody else called the police. People have to fight against being part of the "bystander effect" and take action and do the right thing.




Yes, it is unfortunate that the "bystander effect" takes place even at the level of nations with catastrophic consequences. I recall the Rwanda genocide. It played out before the very eyes of the world. Who can forget the gruesome images? And if I recall right the carnage on the Tutsis continued by the Hutus until Paul Kagame's Tutsi insurgents swept the Hutu regime from power. The sad thing was it was never a powerful military machine like the Nazi Army overseeing the genocide. It was all mobs that could have been easily put down. That Paul Kagame's rag tag Tutsi rebels- maybe whipped into frenzy at the carnage on their fellows across the border in Rwanda- launched and assault which quickly overthrew the Hutu regime suggests a small western force could have easily controlled the situation. But, who knows???
#15177291
@Juin

In the state of Georgia where I am from we have had many cases like this where armed robbers attempting to rob a store end up on the losing end of the stick. In one case I can think of the armed robber was shot by a store owner and survived his wounds only to be handcuff to his hospital bed by the police who guarded him while he recovered in the hospital bed. Afterward the hospital discharged him, they took him to jail. This article describes like an old Wild West showdown where one of the criminals pulled two guns on the store owner with one in each hand only to end up losing the shootout.

Kate Brumback of the Associated Press wrote:A Georgia gun store owner’s quick reflexes and skilled marksmanship may have saved his life and others when armed robbers came calling.

Surveillance video shows Jimmy Groover, owner of Dixie Gun and Pawn, turning around when two suspects walk into his store on Dec. 26. Another employee raises his hands as the suspects charge in.

At least one is wearing a mask and has a gun drawn, pointed in the direction of Groover and his employee. Groover wedged himself behind a gun safe in the back of the store. He said he heard one of them say, “Get on the ground. I’m going to kill you.”

“I saw the mask and the gun at the same time, and I knew it was him or me,” Groover told The Associated Press on Thursday, adding that he acted to protect himself, his employee and two customers who were in the store.

The suspect draws a second gun and Groover fires at least two shots at the first suspect, who immediately falls to the floor on his back, both guns falling from his hands.

As the suspect fell, he fired a bullet that shattered the counter’s glass case and lodged in a door just inches from where Groover was standing, he said.

Groover appears to fire several shots toward the other suspect, as he turns and flees. Smoke from the gunshots fills the store.

The suspect who was shot, 30-year-old Donovan Chopin, died at the scene, police said. The investigation into attempted robbery is ongoing and the second suspect has not been caught, Cobb County police Officer Alicia Chilton said.

Groover doesn’t face any charges, Chilton said.

In the 30 years that Groover, 64, has owned a gun store, this was the first time he’s been present when someone tried to rob him. But there have been 18 burglaries at his store and about a dozen attempted burglaries over those three decades, he said.


https://apnews.com/article/d7fa7edc0490 ... 798bdeeaaa
#15177299
Igor Antunov wrote:This defies belief but I've read about it and yeah, it's real.

California is seeing an exodus into Texas. The rich gated community migrants are going to turn that state into the same farce they turned California into by voting in the demonrats. What is wrong with those people? Why are they like this?

Maybe they haven't yet experienced the saving grace of the Chinese Communist Party, @Igor Antunov?
#15177300
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that the robbery depicted was not an armed robbery. At no point was anyone hurt or even threatened.




The need to use threat of force in robbery by robbers has been removed by California social engineers, Cities Attorneys, Governor for booty valued at less than a fistful full of hundred dollar bills. That fine San Francisco citizen had no reason to use force. Why? Why should he? He can help himself to all the loot he can, provided it cannot be valued at more than 50 Grand. Anything less than that and those Bolsheviks at City Attorney office will put at less than a Grand. That way everyone is satisfied. The right of the robber to free loot is upheld. The Police can report low crime rates; given that only murder, regular Church attendance, and naturally occurring cis males count as crimes and criminals.

Wasn't it Coolio that spun out that Stevie Wonder remake: Gangsta Paradise?
Last edited by Juin on 18 Jun 2021 07:58, edited 1 time in total.
#15177307
To each according to his needs. California has realized socialism! :up:

Politics_Observer wrote:Business can't conduct business or make any money when their is no rule of law. Where is the rule of law in San Fransisco? Can you believe this!? What an outrage!


Given the high rents in SF, the occasional theft probably doesn't even register.

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