[Gardener]

Southern culture "has been notable throughout its 400-year history for its utter lack of civic interest, its hostility to the very ideas of democracy and human rights, its love of hierarchy, its fear of technology and progress, its reliance on brutality and violence to maintain “order,” and its outright celebration of inequality as an order divinely ordained by God."
https://web.archive.org/web/20120703052915/https://www.alternet.org/story/156071/conservative_southern_values_revived%3A_how_a_brutal_strain_of_american_aristocrats_have_come_to_rule_america

And now they control the Republican party...

Really ? I thought that historically the South - the district of the Klu Klux Clan, slavery, Jim Crow etc - was Democrat territory ?

[Gardener]

@Juin
.... They had the "individual right" to own other people and have unfettered access to their labor before the outbreak of the American Civil War. .....

Are you referring to The Democrats again ? I'll grant you, they where VERY angry when the Republican's took their slaves away !

[Godstud]

I thought that historically the South - the district of the Klu Klux Clan, slavery, Jim Crow etc - was Democrat territory ?

You might think that if you had a really shitty knowledge of American history. Democrats took a big shift around the time of Roosevelt(Roosevelt appointed more African Americans to federal positions than all previous Republican administrations combined.). By the 1960s, the Democrats were firmly fighting for racial equality.

[colliric]

You might think that if you had a really shitty knowledge of American history. Democrats took a big shift around the time of Roosevelt(Roosevelt appointed more African Americans to federal positions than all previous Republican administrations combined.). By the 1960s, the Democrats were firmly fighting for racial equality.

Malcolm X didn't agree with you:

"You put them first, and they put you last, because you're a chump!" - Malcolm X on the Democrats.

"You're a traitor to your race" - Malcolm X on Black Democrat Voters.

Newsflash. Democrats haven't changed at all. They still aim for the goddamn upper-class elitist rich voters. They happened to support slavery till it was no longer in vogue in the rich upper class.

Progressives my ass. The party is controlled by the Corporate Democrat arm of the party.

In the modern classic horror film Get Out the villains are Rich White Democratic "I voted Obama because I'm an ally!" voters. The movie was right. They're worse for black people than Republicans are.

[Gardener]

Malcolm X didn't agree with you:

"You put them first, and they put you last, because you're a chump!" - Malcolm X on the Democrats.

"You're a traitor to your race" - Malcolm X on Black Democrat Voters.

Newsflash. Democrats haven't changed at all. They still aim for the goddamn upper-class elitist rich voters. They happened to support slavery till it was no longer in vogue in the rich upper class.

Progressives my ass. The party is controlled by the Corporate Democrat arm of the party.

In the modern classic horror film Get Out the villains are Rich White Democratic "I voted Obama because I'm an ally!" voters. The movie was right. They're worse for black people than Republicans are.

Well, @Godstud has a point. I'm not an American; nor do I have any formal 'training' in American history.

But... wouldn't I be right in saying that the Democrat-led 'progressive' approach to race in the 60's (and subsequently ) has been an absolute catastrophe for Black people ? The 'children born out of wedlock' figures have absolutely skyrocketed; up to 70% now, along with 'absent fathers', I believe ? And employment has not exactly been a success story ? Historically, it has been lower under Republicans than under Democrats ? (though I appreciate global economic forces - beyond the control of the US government - may have played a role ? ).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton ... publicans/

[late]

Really ? I thought that historically the South - the district of the Klu Klux Clan, slavery, Jim Crow etc - was Democrat territory ?

The racists went Republican a long time ago.

[Politics_Observer]

@Gardener

I am not sure where you are from, but here in the U.S. the racists and the non-racists about a 100 years after the American Civil War (around the 1960s) switched parties. So, the republicans of the American Civil War Era are today's democrats whereas the slave-holding class of the American south is today's republicans.

[Rancid]

Strom Thurman lead that switch (If I recall correctly)

[MadMonk]

Both the Democrats and the Republicans suck. But it is amazing when our resident right-wing followers point to the Democratic party and lob the same charges made against the Republicans. It's like straight from the Goebbels playbook.

I guess the bright side is that we all agree that any kind of oppression is morally wrong?

[colliric]

Both the Democrats and the Republicans suck. But it is amazing when our resident right-wing followers point to the Democratic party and lob the same charges made against the Republicans. It's like straight from the Goebbels playbook.

It isn't just me and the "Republican right wing followers", it was the movie Get Out. The Villains were rich white more insidiously racist Democrats.

The most famous horror film of the last decade depicted White upper-class Democrats as being insidiously racist and having voted for Obama out of him being an Uncle Tom.

[Gardener]

It isn't just me and the "Republican right wing followers", it was the movie Get Out. The Villains were rich white more insidiously racist Democrats.

The most famous horror film of the last decade depicted White upper-class Democrats as being insidiously racist and having voted for Obama out of him being an Uncle Tom.

Ummm.. I'm assuming that was a Film ? As in... a work of fiction ?

Out of curiousity, what would have class as "the most famous horror film of the last decade ? "

[Godstud]

It isn't just me and the "Republican right wing followers", it was the movie Get Out. The Villains were rich white more insidiously racist Democrats.

It was a Hollywood horror movie. The villains were RICH. You're really reaching!

You've got nothing.

[colliric]

:lol: It was a Hollywood horror movie. The villains were RICH. You're really reaching!

You've got nothing.

They were specifically rich White Democrats that literally want to invade negro bodies to "experience being black". I would go even further and say the movie suggested they were ex-Dixiecrats. There's an entire scene where they gloat about how good they are for voting for Obama.

The main political theme of the film was that Barack Obama becoming President was a disappointment and changed nothing for Black people, who still have to deal with racial inequality and injustice, from both political parties.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

To the rest of the world, the demise of American Democracy began to happen the day Whitehouse Tour Guides began having to say "That's where he took his blowjob from the Jewish chick and splurged on her dress, then he didn't get fired, nor did he quit like Nixon at least did".

Democracy isn't about the sexual integrity of the guy at the top. That's just "decorum". Nixon may have quit, but he was then given a pre-emptive pardon for his crimes, which were about cheating in an election. That's Nixon worse, in a matter of democracy, and his VP covering up for him. Then Reagan illegally sold arms to Iran, and used the profits to finance central American terrorists. And again, there was a cover-up of this real, and major, problem of abuse of presidential power, by his VP. Then after Clinton, Bush lied about the capabilities of Iraq so that he had an excuse to invade it. This killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and thousands of Americans. The real problems stem from Republican administrations (though if you go back further still, Democrats have most of the responsibility for Vietnam).

As far as your earlier advocacy of compulsory voting goes, the positions are:
colliric: voting should be compulsory
Democrats: voting should be a universal right
Republicans: voting should be a privilege that can be restricted.

US Democrats are closer to your point of view than the Republicans.

Wide partisan divide on whether voting is a fundamental right or a privilege with responsibilities

[colliric]

Yes Nixon was pretty bad too. But from my point of view Reagan restored international faith in both the Republican Party and American Democracy. And also Nixon was certain to get sacked and everyone knew it, including he himself.

Like most people overseas that lived during the Lewinsky scandal, it's easy for me to see how it permanently damaged the reputation of the presidency. Especially because Clinton lied on television and did not resign once found out.

Nixon at least did the right thing to preserve the reputation of the job itself.

One could argue that Clinton set the stage for Trump getting off twice because what Clinton did was far worse. He turned the job into a laughing stock, and the chimpanzee that followed him didn't help either.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Yes Nixon was pretty bad too. But from my point of view Reagan restored international faith in both the Republican Party and American Democracy. And also Nixon was certain to get sacked and everyone knew it, including he himself.

Like most people overseas that lived during the Lewinsky scandal, it's easy for me to see how it permanently damaged the reputation of the presidency. Especially because Clinton lied on television and did not resign once found out.

Nixon at least did the right thing to preserve the reputation of the job itself.

One could argue that Clinton set the stage for Trump getting off twice because what Clinton did was far worse. He turned the job into a laughing stock, and the chimpanzee that followed him didn't help either.

So the Iran-Contra scandal was either unimportant to you, or actually a Good Thing? Arming terrorists (while selling arms to a country you were elected as being opposed to) restored your faith in American Democracy?

But lying about your sex life is far worse for democracy than covering up crimes committed to get you elected?

Wow. I had no idea you are such a prude, with contempt for elections and international relations. You struck me as someone born in the 20th century, not the 19th.

[colliric]

Yes, because that scandal damaged the institution of the Whitehouse directly turning the Oval Office itself into an object of ridicule for decades. Possibly even centuries given how Americans treat presidential history.

Think back to 20th century presidential scandals specifically involving the Whitehouse itself, if the Lewinsky scandal isn't number 1, you're nuts.

The Iran contra deal only damaged Reagan's legacy(and not by much), it didn't lead to decades of international tourists asking "Is that where he took the world's most famous blowjob?".

What would be more damaging to the Pope's reputation:
1) Him putting up with massive financial corruption involving massive amounts of money.

Or

2) Being caught taking a blowjob from a young nun in Saint Peter's Basilica underneath the high altar.

It's number 2. People expect number 1 to happen at least once a papacy.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

20th century presidential scandals specifically involving the Whitehouse itself

and you also have a fetish about buildings. But no interest in democracy.

And actual global opinion on the USA:


https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021 ... -to-biden/
Fairly strong at the end of Clinton's term, a decline by the end of Bush Jr.'s, a rise under Obama, a drop under Trump, and recovery under Biden.

[colliric]

https://politicaldictionary.com/words/honeymoon/

Biden got a honeymoon spike, and everyone was happy Clinton was going.

Everyone known American democracy has been in decline since the early 90s.

[late]

Yes, because that scandal damaged the institution of the Whitehouse directly turning the Oval Office itself into an object of ridicule for decades.

You are so out of your depth.

What Nixon did damaged the country, as well as political institutions. We're in the middle of a Nixonian crisis, sport.

Iran/Contra was mentioned, the Reagan administration was the next step in the 'power at any price' assault on democracy.

Congress gets 10% done compared to what it used to do. You can thank Republicans like Newt Gingrich for that.

Clinton's blowjob is titillating for the uneducated that like that sort of thing. But the Republican attack (and that was part of it) backfired. You could argue that it suggests people should be more careful when they vote; clearly Republicans didn't get the memo...