Blair, the Poodle, Decides to Speak Out - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15186753
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58295384

I feel a sense of shame for my country right now. That the fucking Poodle decides to speak out. This is like the guy who smashes the window telling the people who clean up after him they are doing it wrong. Shut the Fuck Up. You caused the mess with your brother Bush and there was no perfect way to get out. Nobody could have foreseen the Afghan Army not fighting at all and as such nobody could have predicted that getting out would be as chaotic as it was. Also, how many more years did we have to remain? Ten, Twenty, Thirty? Like a bandaid, we just have to accept that at some point we needed a short sharp release of pain for a lifetime of relief. Biden did the right call. People might not agree with it and even blame him personally, but being a great leader is someone who stands by his decision against the voices of opposition and his own personal respect for the benefit of his nation. The more I watch Biden, the more I realise that he was the correct choice for America last November and a man who is willing to stand up to his convictions. He has always supported getting out of Afghanistan and we should not criticise anyone who actually follows up on his election pledges.
#15186848
B0ycey wrote:
The more I watch Biden, the more I realise that he was the correct choice for America last November and a man who is willing to stand up to his convictions. He has always supported getting out of Afghanistan and we should not criticise anyone who actually follows up on his election pledges.




Cut n Run Joe is Taliban's man at the White House. Somebody better stop Senile Joe or he may, as a matter of fact, add salt to ignominious retreat by flying reparations to Taliban Kabul in the form of pallets of dollars.
#15186851
@Juin Trump was the one who wanted to meet up with the Taliban leaders, not Biden. What you say is what stupid muppet Trump-knobgobblers like to say all the time. It's meaningless, and based on ignorance.

Incidentally, Trump initiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan last year. I doubt you'd be saying the same fucked up Bullshit if your orange idol was doing it. :moron:
#15186862
Juin wrote:Cut n Run Joe is Taliban's man at the White House. Somebody better stop Senile Joe or he may, as a matter of fact, add salt to ignominious retreat by flying reparations to Taliban Kabul in the form of pallets of dollars.


"Senile Joe" is merely adhering to Trumps deal. I didn't hear you criticise Senile Donald when he signed it. Although it seems to me that unless you wanted to stay in Afghanistan, there is no other option anyway. What is occurring now was always going to happen, it was only a question of when. It is easy to be like yourself and Blair in hindsight. And that is the problem I have with Blair (and to some extent with you). Afghanistan isn't the result of nine months of Biden. It is a catalogue of errors within the twenty years and you need to go right back to the beginning to understand where the blame should be.
#15186863
Juin wrote:Cut n Run Joe is Taliban's man at the White House. Somebody better stop Senile Joe or he may, as a matter of fact, add salt to ignominious retreat by flying reparations to Taliban Kabul in the form of pallets of dollars.

Actually, there is a very strong argument that can be made for doing exactly that. But, it does hinge of the Taliban only taking 33% of the money for themselves.

The argument is that pulling out and stopping all aid has been a disaster in several nations. Including Afghanistan in about 1991. Maybe we should learn from past mistakes. ALSO, remember; it is not taxpayer money, it is new dollars created out of thin air, and it is all leaving the US to almost all go into some foreigners' savings account.

As I understand it, the Kabul Gov. and its warlords took over 50% of the cash for themselve for 20 years.
.
#15186875
B0ycey wrote:I feel a sense of shame for my country right now. That the fucking Poodle decides to speak out. This is like the guy who smashes the window telling the people who clean up after him they are doing it wrong. Shut the Fuck Up.

Couldn't agree more. It genuinely sickens me that Blair is still taken seriously by anyone when he goes on TV to talk about how indulging his deluded messiah complex was right all along. He wasn't. He, along with George Bush Jr, is one of the direct causes of so much human misery in the Middle East and Central Asia that it's actually grotesque to have to listen to him.

In a sane world, he'd be treated with about as much mainstream respect as David Icke. :|

B0ycey wrote:Nobody could have foreseen the Afghan Army not fighting at all and as such nobody could have predicted that getting out would be as chaotic as it was.

I have to say, this one puzzles me. Almost every scuttle from empire ends up being "chaotic" in some way or another. And it takes some impressive powers of self-delusion to believe that a colonial puppet army will continue to fight for the colonial puppet state once the foreign occupiers leave - especially if the puppet state isn't even paying them.

Of course, a lot of this lack of foresight is the fault of senior officers in the US army. Almost every account I've read from the junior guys - who were actually tasked with training the Afghan army - said they had been warning their senior officers for years that the Afghan army wasn't anything like the well-oiled machine that Biden claimed it was three weeks ago. But anyone who spoke out was marginalised, and anyone who reported the resounding "success" of the training efforts up the chain of command was favoured for promotion, etc.
#15186906
Heisenberg wrote:In a sane world, he'd be treated with about as much mainstream respect as David Icke. :|


Treated...indeed. Although I have always enjoyed Icke. Not that I agree with his conclusions, but he does seem to make some compelling points within all the asinine BS and you just have to go though it all to hear it. It was a shame when he was thrown off Twitter for promoting 5G conspiracy theories. Perhaps he should just stick to the media propaganda and techniques ideals and build up some credibility... but I digest. To the topic on hand.

I have to say, this one puzzles me. Almost every scuttle from empire ends up being "chaotic" in some way or another. And it takes some impressive powers of self-delusion to believe that a colonial puppet army will continue to fight for the colonial puppet state once the foreign occupiers leave - especially if the puppet state isn't even paying them.


It is true that pulling out was always going to be chaotic, but the level of chaos was a surprise to everyone. And it was a surprise because it was assumed they would have had more time to evacuate. At least till the end if the month if not longer. However what happened was the Afghan Army didn't fight. I would like to agree with you that they didn't support being a "colonial puppet" and lost faith when the US began to leave and that is why they didn't fight. But that isn't true. The truth is the Army and government was corrupt and when it came to either fighting for their ideals or roll over and accept the Taliban terms of surrender, they decided they would rather live under the Taliban than potentially lose a battle. I doubt the Army would have wanted to accept the terms given to them, but the offer must have been compelling and ultimately they didn't fight and trusted the words of their opposition. The problem. You are relying on the Taliban not taking revenge later when the US have REALLY LEFT and keeping their words. But that is their problem. They had the means to fight with fucking air supremacy and decided to take the gamble anyway. And the people. Well we can see what popular opinion is. People vote with their feet and everyone is currently heading to the airport.
#15186913
B0ycey wrote:However what happened was the Afghan Army didn't fight. I would like to agree with you that they didn't support being a "colonial puppet" and lost faith when the US began to leave and that is why they didn't fight. But that isn't true. The truth is the Army and government was corrupt and when it came to either fighting for their ideals or roll over and accept the Taliban terms of surrender, they decided they would rather live under the Taliban than potentially lose a battle.

Well, I'm not quite saying the army "didn't support" being a colonial puppet - I'm sure it wasn't a massively principled stand. I'm just saying that the whole state of the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" was essentially an expensively-maintained fiction, sustained by a lot of taxpayer money and a lot of self-delusion.

I agree with you that it was and is incredibly corrupt. The problem is that the top brass of the US army, and the political leadership in the US and UK, lied to themselves that this wasn't the case, and that they really had created a self-sustaining western liberal democracy in Afghanistan. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly over the last couple of weeks, unpaid and underfed soldiers are liable to give up and go home. Not paying or feeding their army properly was a schoolboy error by Ghani and co - but of course, as we now know, they were too busy planning how to abscond with suitcases of cash. :lol:
#15186917
Heisenberg wrote:Well, I'm not quite saying the army "didn't support" being a colonial puppet - I'm sure it wasn't a massively principled stand. I'm just saying that the whole state of the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" was essentially an expensively-maintained fiction, sustained by a lot of taxpayer money and a lot of self-delusion.

I agree with you that it was and is incredibly corrupt. The problem is that the top brass of the US army, and the political leadership in the US and UK, lied to themselves that this wasn't the case, and that they really had created a self-sustaining western liberal democracy in Afghanistan. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly over the last couple of weeks, unpaid and underfed soldiers are liable to give up and go home. Not paying or feeding their army properly was a schoolboy error by Ghani and co - but of course, as we now know, they were too busy planning how to abscond with suitcases of cash. :lol:


I think it's quite evident they were insisting that the Afghans were not as corrupt simply to avoid the political fallout of having taxpayer money being syphoned by corrupt NATO allies.

Just as they are insisting they are surprised they didn't resist, but then - how would the US have ever left Afghanistan if they had to build a functioning government as a precondition? At most I can believe the US is truly surprised it happened so quickly but this speaks more about Taliban mobility, not the lack of resistance by the ANA. Otherwise, the outcome would have been basically the same, without the presence of Americans and collaborators at the time.

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