[Verv]

We don't need to investigate whether there was a conspiracy because I know in my gut there wasn't a conspiracy.

(1) Zero proof.

(2) "peacefully & patriotically"

(3) Throwing a completely unarmed coup d'etat without the military's support in the most armed country on Earth is a really weird way to cease total power.

Almost as weird as a significant amount of the protesters being literally let in by the security.

It's completely an unsustainable and absurd scenario for them to occupy the Capitol and indefinitely prevent a transition of power.

I also love how when the occupation is kind of happening, I guess, Trump does nothing to provide any push for it to be solidified... What, was the plan for the protesters to, without any weapons, human wave assault the existing security, taking having casualties, and then to systematically slaughter all of Congress and remove the Vice President to be hung at their fake gallows...?

... And, after all this, all of the military & institutions in Washington will bend the knee to Trump because that's the next logical step in a long series of improbable and bizarre events?

I don't understand any of this.

Please, tell me how any of this would make sense..?

If Trump was lit-UH-rilly Hitler, you would think he would have a better plan...

(Cue "He is Hitler but just STUPID and this was his STUPID PLAN!")

[ckaihatsu]

You make it sound so *mysterious*, Verv, when actually there's very *little* ambiguity about what took place that day:

On January 6, 2021, a mob of 2,000 to 2,500 supporters of U.S. President Donald Trump attacked the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C.[note 1][28][29] They sought to overturn his defeat in the 2020 presidential election[30] by disrupting the joint session of Congress assembled to count electoral votes that would formalize President-elect Joe Biden's victory.[3][31] The Capitol Complex was locked down and lawmakers and staff were evacuated as rioters assaulted law enforcement officers, vandalized property, and occupied the building for several hours.[32] Five people died either shortly before, during, or following the event: one was shot by Capitol Police, another died of a drug overdose, and three died of natural causes.[19][33] Many people were injured, including 138 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months.[34]

Called to action by Trump,[35][36] thousands of his supporters gathered in Washington, D.C., on January 5 and 6 to support his false claim that the 2020 election had been "stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats"[37][38][39][40] and to demand that Vice President Mike Pence and Congress reject Biden's victory.[41] Starting at noon on January 6,[42] at a "Save America" rally on the Ellipse, Trump repeated false claims of election irregularities[43] and said, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore".[44][45][46] During and after his speech,[42] thousands of attendees walked to the Capitol and hundreds breached police perimeters[47][48] as Congress was beginning the electoral vote count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Unit ... tol_attack

[Fasces]

(1) Zero proof.

That's every criminal investigation. There's zero proof, until the crime is investigated. And then proof is found. That's the way it works.

(2) "peacefully & patriotically"

What was?

(3) Throwing a completely unarmed coup d'etat without the military's support in the most armed country on Earth is a really weird way to cease total power.

No one said Trump was competent. I think he overestimated the support of the military, having spent the last few months furiously promoting 'loyalists' to top positions, loyalists that then chickened out. All it takes is Pence, McCarthy, and Sund to hold the line and things look very different that morning. Instead they wussed out after 3 hours.

[Verv]

That's every criminal investigation. There's zero proof, until the crime is investigated. And then proof is found. That's the way it works.

I am sympathetic to this when there is essentially more evidence.

Which is why I am sympathetic to the 2000 election being stolen, and the 2020 election being stolen. Which is why I am sympathetic to conspiracies about the CIA operations in Italy, Turkey, and Greece, and conspiracies about Kissinger & the Vietnam war...

But in this case it seems too crazy to be plausible.

What was?

Perhaps something like 10,000 people got violent of the 100k+ that had attended the rally.

No one said Trump was competent. I think he overestimated the support of the military, having spent the last few months furiously promoting 'loyalists' to top positions, loyalists that then chickened out. All it takes is Pence, McCarthy, and Sund to hold the line and things look very different that morning. Instead they wussed out after 3 hours.

I am curious how you would be able to advance such lines based on pure speculation and no evidence, a line that is incredibly over-reaching, and then have to debate some conspiracy like taht of Mark Zuckerberg buying Wisconsin for Biden.

But I guess this is why these are ultimately conspiracy theories: there is no definitive proof.

I could pull a neckbeard Hitchens and flash you a murderous smile and say that which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof! (:::tips fedora:::) but I do not believe that.

I think it is fine for you and others to believe this. It is not entirely without merit considering the great amount of suspicion both sides have one another now, and I am sympathetic to that.

I've given my reasons so I will desist from trying to force my own point too much & instead say that I am happy to have your acquaintance.

[Unthinking Majority]

(1) Zero proof.

(2) "peacefully & patriotically"

(3) Throwing a completely unarmed coup d'etat without the military's support in the most armed country on Earth is a really weird way to cease total power.

Almost as weird as a significant amount of the protesters being literally let in by the security.

It's completely an unsustainable and absurd scenario for them to occupy the Capitol and indefinitely prevent a transition of power.

I also love how when the occupation is kind of happening, I guess, Trump does nothing to provide any push for it to be solidified... What, was the plan for the protesters to, without any weapons, human wave assault the existing security, taking having casualties, and then to systematically slaughter all of Congress and remove the Vice President to be hung at their fake gallows...?

... And, after all this, all of the military & institutions in Washington will bend the knee to Trump because that's the next logical step in a long series of improbable and bizarre events?

I don't understand any of this.

Please, tell me how any of this would make sense..?

If Trump was lit-UH-rilly Hitler, you would think he would have a better plan...

(Cue "He is Hitler but just STUPID and this was his STUPID PLAN!")

Well Trump and people in his admin wanted Pence to not confirm the election results that day. Trump threw Pence under the bus publicly for refusing to do so.

Someone built a gallows to threaten Pence's life for not acting like a dictator (Putin would have been proud had he done it), and then the mob stormed the freaking Capitol while Congress was confirming the votes.

Trump, members of his admin, and the mob all sought to overturn the election results.

[Verv]

I always hate this.

Extreme imagery is a normal part of protests.

People were talking about this image back in 2016:

Iceland has found nine top bankers guilty and sentenced them to decades in jail for crimes related to the 2008 economic crash.

On Thursday Iceland's Supreme Court returned a guilty verdict for all nine defendants in the Kaupthing (Bank) market manipulation case, after a long running court trial which began in April last year.

Kaupthing was a big international bank headquartered in Reykjavik, Iceland. It expanded internationally for years, but collapsed in 2008 under huge debts, crippling the small nation's economy.

By demanding that bankers be subject to the same laws as the rest of society, Iceland opted for a very different strategy in the wake of the financial crisis to rest of Europe and the U.S., where banks were fined nominal amounts, and directors and chief executives escaped punishment altogether.

Bibliotecapleyades

This was done in Iceland when people protested against the bankers who led them in the 2008 financial crisis. The implication: we must hang the bankers!

I remember people made memes about how great it is when the people rise up to hold others accountable.

This was also super common throughout the world in 2016 & 2017:

Had to search for a while until we got the fun 'Thump Trump' punching bag -- saw a version of this also at some University protest in the states:

So, some protesters constructed a gallows; you do not like it so it is interpreted as some legitimate threat to violence. But when they do it for a cause you like, it is an acceptable political message, an expression of their anger, or just fun.

This is a very important thing to remember:

In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity or charitable interpretation requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation.[1]

Wikipedia