Trump = Roger Stone = the Establishment - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15206271
For those of you who are unaware of who Roger Stone is, then you really ought to watch the documentary below.

Roger Stone has served as campaign manager for Richard Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sn and Bush Jn, Bob Dole, and Donald Trump. He is also responsible for getting Bill Clinton elected by campaigning for the Reform Party to deny the votes from the Republicans in order to get Clinton elected the roundabout way, and then single-handedly destroy it so that it does not pose a threat to Bush. :lol: The Reform party got 13% of the vote under Stone's campaigning which ensured Bill Clinton's victory.

But why did Roger Stone wanted to punish the GOP by getting Clinton elected? Because he was posting cuckolding ads in newspapers looking for "muscular well hung men" to fuck his wife, he was stupid enough to post both his and his wife's images. So he was shamed and removed from the GOP and engaged with the Reform party to make himself important again by showing what kind of power he can wield, .ie getting Clinton elected without even being his campaign manager.

Stone along with his long-term associates Paul Manafort, Roy Kohn(chief counsel to the Joseph McCarthy during the purges) created from scratch the PAC's & SuperPACs in order to skirt the transparency rules imposed after Watergate. It was the exact same people that got Nixon, Reagan, Bush(both), Clinton and Trump elected. It was these exact same people that stormed the ballots in Florida to steal the election from Al Gore, it was these exact same people that stormed the Capitol to steal the election from Biden. :roll:

It was these deep-state people that established the concept of campaign manager turned lobbyist charging for access to those they campaigned to get elected. A distinction that used to exist before they legislated it out of existence. It was these same people that ripped up the few protections American citizens had against lobbying for special interests. It was Roger Stone people that invited foreign actors to interfere in the US election system just to satisfy their own ego. Stone liaised with Julian Assange and with Russia.

#15206280
I found it a fascinating documentary that revealed both a human side, and a narcissistic scumbag side. Unfortunately most political parties must resort to dirty tactics, and if you want to win in this brutal sport, you need individuals like him. Only one of the Presidential hopefuls he's actively supported has lost.

He's not the only one who plays the game dirty.

Ive always found it funny Roger looks like American Putin.
#15206282
Please explain how the people who created the concept of the PAC and SuperPac by establishing the very first PAC in existence to sell access of US politicians to foreign interests are going to "drain the swamp".

How is Trump "anti-establishment" when he is part of the inner circle of this group of people?
#15206284
Trump's status of being fucking rich means he must be establishment without need of further proof.

Just a side note to others: Osama bin Laden is also from one of the Saudi Arabia's richest families so IMHO he's also establishment.

But more importantly, many people are anti-establishment because they want to be the "new establishment", minus maybe a small number of fundamental anarchists. It's more about what establishment "you think you are more likely to accept" and / or "you can be a part of or even on top of".
#15206285
Patrickov wrote:Trump's status of being fucking rich means he must be establishment without need of further proof.


Not to the average American Joe.

Trump is not just establishment because he's rich, he is establishment because his campaign manager/advisor is the creator of the PACS and lobbying in Washington. Trump is beholden to the very person who legislated the swamp into existence.
#15206286
noemon wrote:Not to the average American Joe.

Trump is not just establishment because he's rich, he is establishment because his campaign manager/advisor is the creator of the PACS and lobbying in Washington. Trump is beholden to the very person who legislated the swamp into existence.


It's overcomplicated to explain like you do, and I feel alienated because such explanation looks likes a show-off of the speaker's knowledge.

Trump is born into a rich family, keeps his wealth and acts arrogantly. He is establishment by definition. Any other specific act is just the outcome or second / third-level confirmation.

When he says "anti-establishment", it is more like "he is against the part of the establishment who are against him". His supporters just happen to hate that part of establishment as well, and some of them think that they are part of Trump's side of establishment. When I brand myself a Trump Supporter I also follow that mind set, although I care less about which establishment I will be in if it happens to be true.
#15206287
noemon wrote:Not to the average American Joe.

Trump is not just establishment because he's rich, he is establishment because his campaign manager/advisor is the creator of the PACS and lobbying in Washington. Trump is beholden to the very person who legislated the swamp into existence.


From the Republican Swamp point of view yes. The democrats have their own dirty tricksters too.

I never thought Trump would "Drain the swamp" or "Make America Great Again"(That's just a good slogan)Admin Edit: Rule 3 Racism

I really did like his economic, financial and taxation policies, and the fact is he was up against totally unlikable Clinton. If you want Trump to win, put Bill's wife up as the Democratic candidate.
#15206288
noemon wrote:For those of you who are unaware of who Roger Stone is, then you really ought to watch the documentary below.

Roger Stone has served as campaign manager for Richard Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sn and Bush Jn, Bob Dole, and Donald Trump. He is also responsible for getting Bill Clinton elected by campaigning for the Reform Party to deny the votes from the Republicans in order to get Clinton elected the roundabout way, and then single-handedly destroy it so that it does not pose a threat to Bush. :lol: The Reform party got 13% of the vote under Stone's campaigning which ensured Bill Clinton's victory.

But why did Roger Stone wanted to punish the GOP by getting Clinton elected? Because he was posting cuckolding ads in newspapers looking for "muscular well hung men" to fuck his wife, he was stupid enough to post both his and his wife's images. So he was shamed and removed from the GOP and engaged with the Reform party to make himself important again by showing what kind of power he can wield, .ie getting Clinton elected without even being his campaign manager.

Stone along with his long-term associates Paul Manafort, Roy Kohn(chief counsel to the Joseph McCarthy during the purges) created from scratch the PAC's & SuperPACs in order to skirt the transparency rules imposed after Watergate. It was the exact same people that got Nixon, Reagan, Bush(both), Clinton and Trump elected. It was these exact same people that stormed the ballots in Florida to steal the election from Al Gore, it was these exact same people that stormed the Capitol to steal the election from Biden. :roll:

It was these deep-state people that established the concept of campaign manager turned lobbyist charging for access to those they campaigned to get elected. A distinction that used to exist before they legislated it out of existence. It was these same people that ripped up the few protections American citizens had against lobbying for special interests. It was Roger Stone people that invited foreign actors to interfere in the US election system just to satisfy their own ego. Stone liaised with Julian Assange and with Russia.



This kinda explains how Trump made a deal with the Norquists so fast. Even if the party as a whole was not happy, he still took the majority of GOP due to his establishment connections. Now the GOP is fractured as a consequence of this.
#15206290
Patrickov wrote:It's overcomplicated to explain like you do, and I feel alienated because such explanation looks likes a show-off of the speaker's knowledge.

Trump is born into a rich family, keeps his wealth and acts arrogantly. He is establishment by


An American person does not associate "establishment" with wealth.

There is no such nuance in Trumps' anti-establishment claims.

It's just a slogan, a slogan repeated by the real creator of the establishment and the swamp.

colliric wrote:I never thought Trump would "Drain the swamp" or "Make America Great Again"(That's just a good slogan)


No? So you openly admit that Trump is part of the establishment and a major part of the swamp since his closest associates created the swamp as we know it today.

colliric wrote:and the fact is he was up against totally unlikable Clinton.


According to you lot, Clinton is "more establishment than Trump" But is that so? Evidently not. The same person was responsible for getting Bill Clinton elected. While the Democrats simply copied the game that Republicans created with the PACS and lobbies. Both Trump and the Republicans are far more establishment and swampy than others.
#15206291
colliric wrote:policies


Trump has poisoned American politics to the point where policies don't win votes. Hence why this nation is doomed. The electorate is now mostly composed of a bunch of morons that vote based on their belief that the "other" represents an existential crisis. This opens the door for more corrupt politicians to take the reigns in the US. Thus, the US will look like Kazakhstan, or Mexico, or Russia, or just about any other corruption riddled nation.

The corruption factor is going through the roof in the US.
#15206292
noemon wrote:An American person does not associate "establishment" with wealth.


I am not an American person and I cannot verify if this statement is true.

As I said, Trump's basic traits are firmly establishment -- even his family composition shouts loudly that Trump is a rotten establishment entity. There is no need to drill so deep into seeing what politicians he connects or vice versa.
#15206293
Patrickov wrote:There is no need to drill so deep into seeing what politicians he connects or vice versa.


Que?

As as non-American I have little incentive to know what campaigning guy he was employing.


Then don't. Oh, he did not just employ him, they have been great friends for years, he tried to convince Trump to run in 1988. The guy that was bribed during Watergate, that was behind Nixon, Reagan, Bushes and even Bill Clinton. The guy that created the first PAC(political action group) and one of the first lobbies in Washington after having legislated that campaign managers can become lobbyists if they so please.

The guy who single handedly created what Americans recognise as 'the Swamp'.
#15206294
Wealth is not a prerequisite for being establishment in America. There's certainly correlation here, since the establishment controls the gears/wheels of government and industry, thus they can enrich themselves, but wealth is not a prerequisite.

Patrickov wrote:There is no need to drill so deep into seeing what politicians he connects or vice versa.


Disagree, as this is how you can understand how the Trump monster and MAGA morons came to be.
#15206295
Rancid wrote:Trump has poisoned American politics to the point where policies don't win votes.


The reverse is true -- it's the environment of "policies don't win votes" the caused Trump's election in 2016.

Come to think of it, Obama might be too good a president -- so good that too few people believe anyone succeeding him could continue his path that they might just as well elect his polar opposite.

In hindsight, Hilary Clinton, Bernie Sanders or even Joe Biden should be immensely grateful to Donald Trump, as he saved them from having to be compared to Obama.


P.S. This had actually happened in Hong Kong in 2012 -- CY Leung the hawk was elected by the CCP-business complex and his opponent Henry Tang was effectively saved from burdening the "tyrant" brand. Most unfortunately though, Leung's successor (Carrie Lam) outdid him so much that we could say that CY Leung himself got his share of Henry Tang's luck.
#15206305
noemon wrote:Que?


My explanation was in the previous sentence, i.e. Trump's social status, basic traits and even his family composition already tells us that he's establishment.

It needs really big effort for people like him to be actually anti-establishment and, of course, there's almost none from him.


On a side note, his supporters want or believe themselves to be part of the Trump establishment.
In other words they have their "agenda", so I think explaining either your interpretation or mine to them is a waste of time.

I only focus on the fact that Trump is already very establishment without that Roger Stone connection.
#15206445
noemon wrote:No? So you openly admit that Trump is part of the establishment and a major part of the swamp since his closest associates created the swamp as we know it today.

According to you lot, Clinton is "more establishment than Trump" But is that so? Evidently not. The same person was responsible for getting Bill Clinton elected. While the Democrats simply copied the game that Republicans created with the PACS and lobbies. Both Trump and the Republicans are far more establishment and swampy than others.


The gangs all here:
Image

Image

And here too:
Image

Image

So it can't be denied, because there's photographic evidence. I admit it. The Clintons are worse though, they simply have the longer track record of sleazy politics, and sex scandals. They have documented far closer connections to the "other individuals" in those photographs, all of whom are far worse than Roger Stone(except maybe Prince Andrew, he was more of an idiot that probably could no longer get it up for Fergie). That was demonstrated by the evidence submitted in both trials.

P.S. I apologize for my Obama comment, it was not intentionally racist.
#15206448
Your explanation and the documentary is shit.
noemon wrote:Roger Stone has served as campaign manager for Richard Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sn and Bush Jn, Bob Dole, and Donald Trump. He is also responsible for getting Bill Clinton elected by campaigning for the Reform Party to deny the votes from the Republicans in order to get Clinton elected the roundabout way, and then single-handedly destroy it so that it does not pose a threat to Bush. :lol: The Reform party got 13% of the vote under Stone's campaigning which ensured Bill Clinton's victory.

You tell here how he is a great genius with all these accomplishments.

noemon wrote:But why did Roger Stone wanted to punish the GOP by getting Clinton elected? Because he was posting cuckolding ads in newspapers looking for "muscular well hung men" to fuck his wife, he was stupid enough to post both his and his wife's images. So he was shamed and removed from the GOP and engaged with the Reform party to make himself important again by showing what kind of power he can wield, .ie getting Clinton elected without even being his campaign manager.

Bu then, you tell us how he is stupid.

There is a mental flaw in your words and in the documentary. Someone can't be a genius and stupid at the same time. The fact is that he is just a genius.
#15206451
colliric wrote:

He's not the only one who plays the game dirty.




That is mostly wrong. Back in the day, that accusation was often levelled at Dick Tuck. Dick Tuck played tough, but he played a completely different game from what the extremists like Stone and Roy Cohn were doing.

He even wrote a funny article about it.

This is painfully obvious to anyone that knows about it. Roy Cohn, in particular, was a monster.

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