[ckaihatsu]

Likewise...

The original sin theory of perdition is the currently accepted spiritual theory for many social problems. It states that impure thoughts and actions known as "sins" can lead to an afterlife in the lake of fire. These micro-aggressions against the creator - too complex to be understood by the human mind - lead to a list of sins at the Pearly Gates that cause infinities in hell. (etc)

The similarities are too perfect to ignore.

Have you cleansed your soul of all those sins, ckaihatsu? If not for yourself, for the sake of other people's souls?

Are you *religious*, Qatzel, or are you just *projecting* religion?

[QatzelOk]

Are you *religious*, Qatzel, or are you just *projecting* religion?

Projecting.

I'm very spiritual, which makes organized religion... irrelevant.

I only wish more people had the time and inclination to be spiritual. Then we wouldn't "need" religion or witch-burning or a bathroom full of cleaning products.

I made no such argument. I made no such statement.

You refuse to own up to what you have said. By suggesting that one need not be "overly ideological" about anything, you are making a pithy statement regarding how we should live our lives. And in the Germ-vs-Terrain narrative, this means that you are saying that "killing germs sometimes" is the best, most Aristotilean way to live. Which translates into burning "a few witches now and then" just to prove that we "aren't overly ideological."

[ckaihatsu]

Projecting.

I'm very spiritual, which makes organized religion... irrelevant.

I only wish more people had the time and inclination to be spiritual. Then we wouldn't "need" religion or witch-burning or a bathroom full of cleaning products.

If you're so 'spiritual' then why did you include *this* part -- which happens to reference *Christianity*.

Have you cleansed your soul of all those sins, ckaihatsu? If not for yourself, for the sake of other people's souls?

[QatzelOk]

If you're so 'spiritual' then why did you include *this* part -- which happens to reference *Christianity*.

Because, just like with Germ theory, Chrisitians are asked to kill germs (sin) - if not for oneself, for the sake of others.

**Wear a bike helmet - if not for you, for the sake of the medical bills your next of kin will have to pay!

**Get the yellow off of your shirt collars - if not for your own pride, for the sake of others who might be disgusted to see yellow collars on white shirts!

**Wear a mask to save the lives of millions of others!

**Save the souls of the First Nations (or kill them) in order to allow for group-heaven-access for your own gang.

**Going to a party this Christmas? Be sure you've had all the latest boosters so that you don't infect someone.


Slow down, if not for your own life, for the lives of all the children playing video games in their parents' basements

[ckaihatsu]

**Save the souls of the First Nations (or kill them) in order to allow for group-heaven-access for your own gang.

I'll definitely give you *this* one, but the others sound more like a generic anti-consumerist -- even anti-*modernity* -- line that's typical of the Greens.

[QatzelOk]

I'll definitely give you *this* one,

Thanks.

but the others sound more like a generic anti-consumerist -- even anti-*modernity* -- line that's typical of the Greens.

You asked why I included a comparison with Christianity.

So I listed a lot of "germ killing" that has been done ostensibly for "the group." There are many kinds of groups (identity politics) that can be called on to "kill germs."

The Greens tend to tell us to stop killing nature, which includes germs.

Some other "germs" that various groups try to "kill" include:

Patriarchy (kill it with feminism)
Sin (kill it with holiness)
White Supermacy (kill it with riots and tokenism)
Authoritarian regimes (kill them with bombs and propaganda)
Islamism (kill it with bombs and propaganda)
Paganism (kill it with smallpox and propaganda)
Anti-Semitism (kill it with limits on speech)
Misinformation (kill it with limits on speech)
Insects and weeds (kill them with insecticides and herbicides)

[ckaihatsu]

Thanks.

You asked why I included a comparison with Christianity.

So I listed a lot of "germ killing" that has been done ostensibly for "the group."

The Greens tend to tell us to stop killing nature, which includes germs.

To revisit, though, why are you quoting from *organized religion*, if you're 'not' for it, and also presumably not for its *tenets*.

Okay, good clarification.

I'm pro-medicine and pro-sanitation, Qatzel -- maybe you're on a fishing expedition -- ?

[QatzelOk]

To revisit, though, why are you quoting from *organized religion*, if you're 'not' for it, and also presumably not for its *tenets*.

Okay, good clarification.

I'm pro-medicine and pro-sanitation, Qatzel -- maybe you're on a fishing expedition -- ?

You should pause a bit longer before replying to my posts because I often make important additions to them WHILE you are instantly replying to the previous version. See above.

[QatzelOk]

...In the Middle Ages, it might have been easy to inspire mass compliance through religious tropes such as the mortal fear of heresy and devils and witches on the loose. In the 20th century, the mortal fear of enemies abroad with weapons of mass destruction and crazed anti-freedom ideologies worked wonders.

But in the 21st century, when the old excuses wore thin, and when our faith was in infinite progress, the best tactic might be to posit the appearance of an invisible pathogen that if we do not stop in its tracks, threatens to destroy us all. And looking back, it is obvious now that this narrative was in the works for years...

When the author writes "the narrative was in the works for years," this seems to suggest that our germ-fighting elites are always inventing new "germs" for the plebs to spend all their energy "fighting."

Scapegoats are also a form of "germs."

[QatzelOk]

War on Poverty

War on Crime

War on Drugs

War on Authoritarianism-Islamism-terrorism-communism-etc.


All of these are wars on "germ of the week."

A public that has been told that "original sin" needs to be destroyed inside themselves, can be lead to believe that all germs are "sins" that need to be destroyed.



Jesus and his flame-thrower, saving the world from germs. Will there be anything or anyone left when He's finished?

[Unthinking Majority]

Sometimes the cure for high blood pressure is diet and exorcize.

The treatment for HIV is not vegetables.

[QatzelOk]

Sometimes the cure for high blood pressure is diet and exorcize.

The treatment for HIV is not vegetables.

And sometimes the cure for economic problems is redistribution and cooperating with other nations, not nuclear wars or coup d'etats on resource colonies in waiting.

And where did HIV come from? Was it one of the side effects of one of our chemical "cures" for something else?

And in this case, didn't "avoiding anal sex" (terrain) do more good for potential victims of this desease than all the drugs in the world did for people who just wanted a pill? (germ killing)

[Unthinking Majority]

And sometimes the cure for economic problems is redistribution and cooperating with other nations, not nuclear wars or coup d'etats on resource colonies in waiting.

And where did HIV come from? Was it one of the side effects of one of our chemical "cures" for something else?

And in this case, didn't "avoiding anal sex" (terrain) do more good for potential victims of this desease than all the drugs in the world did for people who just wanted a pill? (germ killing)

I think HIV came from a guy who had sex with a monkey?

[QatzelOk]

I think HIV came from a guy who had sex with a monkey?

Yes, the germ that was broadcast was "beastiality" - a deadly sin.

But animal husbandry has NOT decreased at all since that meme, so nothing has been done terrain-wise. But expensive drugs were sold, and billionaires were created out of germ-eradication.

Thing is - if animal husbandry is the main problem, then it's a TERRAIN issue, and not a germ issue.

We are destroying our terrain with animal husbandry.

[ckaihatsu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmeat# ... f_diseases

[Unthinking Majority]

Yes, the germ that was broadcast was "beastiality" - a deadly sin.

But animal husbandry has NOT decreased at all since that meme, so nothing has been done terrain-wise. But expensive drugs were sold, and billionaires were created out of germ-eradication.

Thing is - if animal husbandry is the main problem, then it's a TERRAIN issue, and not a germ issue.

We are destroying our terrain with animal husbandry.

If you were a wolf would you still hate yourself for killing cute bunnies?

[ckaihatsu]

TERRAIN issue

If you were a wolf would you still hate yourself for killing cute bunnies?

'Terrain' implies *objective (natural) reality*, while 'wolf' implies *subjective preferences* -- UM is focusing on the *individual*, then projecting-outward, while Qatzel is identifying the *context* around the individual.


Worldview Diagram

Spoiler: show

[6] Worldview Diagram

Spoiler: show

[ckaihatsu]

Where do you stand on the Green Revolution, Qatzel?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

[QatzelOk]

Where do you stand on the Green Revolution, Qatzel?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

It's a perfect metaphor for how we destroyed the earth.

Good intentions mixed with profit-seeking.... the profit-seeking will always dominate, and the good intentions will always be relegated to "tacked on feel-good decorations."

Also, gnosticism (pretending you know how the world works) leads to simple solutions like germ eradication. Terrain work is too complex and civilization-changing for the elites who profit from these civilizations to "feel comfortable" with it.

Lobbying African vassal governments into accepting poison technologies... the Green Revolution:

"You will look good if agricultural production increases while you are the dictator. And with exports, there will be money to pocket for your clan.

Whatever happens afterwards ... will not be your problem or ours."



The terrain - individual African regions with differeing climates, soil and cultures.... was ignored for a one-size-fits-all germ killer regime. (insecticides, herbicides, etc.)

[ckaihatsu]

Where do you stand on the Green Revolution, Qatzel?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

It's a perfect metaphor for how we destroyed the earth.

Good intentions mixed with profit-seeking.... the profit-seeking will always dominate, and the good intentions will always be relegated to "tacked on feel-good decorations."

Also, gnosticism (pretending you know how the world works) leads to simple solutions like germ eradication. Terrain work is too complex and civilization-changing for the elites who profit from these civilizations to "feel comfortable" with it.

Lobbying African vassal governments into accepting poison technologies... the Green Revolution:

"You will look good if agricultural production increases while you are the dictator. And with exports, there will be money to pocket for your clan.

Whatever happens afterwards ... will not be your problem or ours."

Image

The terrain - individual African regions with differeing climates, soil and cultures.... was ignored for a one-size-fits-all germ killer regime. (insecticides, herbicides, etc.)

Here's the *counter*-argument:

One key leader was agricultural scientist Norman Borlaug, the "Father of the Green Revolution", who received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970. He is credited with saving over a billion people from starvation. The basic approach was the development of high-yielding varieties of cereal grains, expansion of irrigation infrastructure, modernization of management techniques, distribution of hybridized seeds, synthetic fertilizers, and pesticides to farmers. As crops began to reach the maximum improvement possible through selective breeding, genetic modification technologies were developed to allow for continued efforts.[8][9]

Studies show that the Green Revolution contributed to widespread reduction of poverty, averted hunger for millions, raised incomes, reduced greenhouse gas emissions, reduced land use for agriculture, and contributed to declines in infant mortality.[10][11][12][13][14]