[Sceptic]

Sure, stuff that has some relevance. Which is not what you are serving...

In a nut-shell, your response to another user's comments about American interference in the 2014 Maidan were that Russia was involved before hand. I'm telling you that the CIA has been involved in funding and training anti-Russian antagonists and Banderite extremism since way before the collapse of the USSR. This "project" has been in the works for a long time.

The Russian invasion is another subject. The perceived threat of NATO expansion becomes much worse when the ascension into the Euro-Atlantic partnership involves a country with a known CIA funded Banderite shadow organisation that is threatening to build a nuclear weapons program, disband the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol and put a military and economic blockade on the only warm water port in Russia which is Novorossiysk.

The objective is to put Russia under the economic and military thumb of America who intends to break them up into smaller republics and then use them to destabilise China in the same way. Again, historical evidence of this is with the Mujahideen which was precursor to the Soviet-Afghan war.

[skinster]

@skinster

Additionally:

There was undeniable, popular support for the Crimea referendum—even Western media sources and US exit polls at the time had to concede this—it isn't even a debate, but that doesn't prevent the NATO-expansionists from using this as a talking point.

Ukraine on Fire and the other one by the same director were excellent and are must-watch viewing for a lot of people here since they just keep regurgitating Western corporate news talking points and miss the context of the more recent war in Ukraine that started after the U.S. coup.

Here for anyone interested:

I miss Robert Parry (who was in the short clip you shared). Also, I didn't realise the Crimeans initially pushed for RF control because they feared a Maiden too, but this makes a lot of sense.

There is a lot of anti-semitism on the continent. It's regrettable, but that doesn't do a damn thing for you.

Banderites pretending to care about anti-semitism.

You mentioned the CIA. America has done a lot that's bad.

But we didn't invade Ukraine twice, which threatens WW3.

Some history for you:

Cold War Allies: The Origins of CIA's Relationship with Ukrainian Nationalists about this agency's work with Ukrainian fascists since 1946, including Stepan Bandera, in their war against the USSR. The link is CIA's own docs.

The same groups rule Ukraine today.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Negotiator and Skinster, since you love to throw around the 'no evidence' accusation at everyone who dares suggest any sort of nefarious action on the part of Russia, can we perhaps start with you laying out your evidence that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was an American led coup? You do, both of you, after all, throw around the claim every 5 seconds.

[Deutschmania]

Negotiator and Skinster, since you love to throw around the 'no evidence' accusation at everyone who dares suggest any sort of nefarious action on the part of Russia, can we perhaps start with you laying out your evidence that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was an American led coup? You do, both of you, after all, throw around the claim every 5 seconds.

The documentary referenced above , " Ukraine on Fire" , is good , albeit with some gratuitous upper frontal nudity, at the beginning. In addition , if you really are interested in hearing the other side on the matter, here are these articles I just found. Plus, a video showing how the Russian Ministry of Education explains the situation to their school children , just for your information, for what it's worth. https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/06/how-and-why-the-us-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ , https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

[Rancid]

The documentary referenced above , " Ukraine on Fire" , is good , albeit with some gratuitous upper frontal nudity, at the beginning. In addition , if you really are interested in hearing the other side on the matter, here are these articles I just found. Plus, a video showing how the Russian Ministry of Education explains the situation to their school children , just for your information, for what it's worth. https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/06/how-and-why-the-us-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ , https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

I wonder how well does Russia propaganda work on its children. Long term anyway.

[Deutschmania]

I wonder how well does Russia propaganda work on its children. Long term anyway.

Probably about as well as American propaganda does on its children, or for that matter its adults. I mean I have broken out of the confines of the Overton window , but evidently many people don't even bother to question the prevailing establishment narrative. Most people in the United States , those who are politically conscious and active , are either classical liberal conservatives who vote Republican , or are social liberal progressives who vote Democratic. There are only a handful who are either left-wing social populists , or right-wing national populists , not to mention anarchists. Many are so indoctrinated that they will maintain a self imposed information control , not even considering the points made by those on the other side , let alone rival nations.

[skinster]

Imagine an obviously propagandized American talking about propaganda elsewhere.

Negotiator and Skinster, since you love to throw around the 'no evidence' accusation at everyone who dares suggest any sort of nefarious action on the part of Russia, can we perhaps start with you laying out your evidence that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was an American led coup? You do, both of you, after all, throw around the claim every 5 seconds.

Given you missed this, I guess your awful position on this war makes sense.



More

Anyway, for someone who never shares any evidence on his awful opinion, it's funny that you're making demands off someone who shares a lot beyond my opinion.

[Rancid]

Probably about as well as American propaganda does on its children, or for that matter its adults. I mean I have broken out of the confines of the Overton window , but evidently many people don't even bother to question the prevailing establishment narrative. Most people in the United States , those who are politically conscious and active , are either classical liberal conservatives who vote Republican , or are social liberal progressives who vote Democratic. There are only a handful who are either left-wing social populists , or right-wing national populists , not to mention anarchists. Many are so indoctrinated that they will maintain a self imposed information control , not even considering the points made by those on the other side , let alone rival nations.

In other words, we're all fucked.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Imagine an obviously propagandized American talking about propaganda elsewhere.



Given you missed this, I guess your awful position on this war makes sense.



More

Anyway, for someone who never shares any evidence on his awful opinion, it's funny that you're making demands off someone who shares a lot beyond my opinion.

er what?? Thats all you've got - a 5 second clip of Nuland saying it would be great to "glue this thing"?? - I mean what the fuck does that even mean?

Wanting to establish close relations with Ukraine post revolution - would be my guess. Wow HUUUUGE conspiracy there

Anything else?

[ingliz]

'Well researched and well worth a read.

The "Snipers' Massacre" on the Maidan in Ukraine

There is enough circumstantial evidence to make the Russian narrative - that the mass killing of the police and protesters was part of a fascist coup organized by radical elements of the Maidan opposition and the US government, with help from the Central Intelligence Agency - credible, if not proven.

[skinster]

er what?? Thats all you've got - a 5 second clip of Nuland saying it would be great to "glue this thing"?? - I mean what the fuck does that even mean?

Wanting to establish close relations with Ukraine post revolution - would be my guess. Wow HUUUUGE conspiracy there

Anything else?

What Victoria Nuland was talking about was who to install in the Ukrainian government to do Washington's bidding.

Instead of playing guess work and demanding to be spoonfed with such a poor attitude to boot, why don't you read a little bit about the situation in Ukraine before February 2022? If reading ain't your thing, plenty of the context which you're severely lacking is explained away in moving pictures, here:

There is enough circumstantial evidence to make the Russian narrative - that the mass killing of the police and protesters was part of a fascist coup organized by radical elements of the Maidan opposition and the US government, with help from the Central Intelligence Agency - credible, if not proven.

Most definitely, there is no doubt about it, even with footage where the CIA was using the same playbook it has used elsewhere (Syria comes to mind!) which includes bullets and attacks coming from both sides to make it seem like the people and police were fighting each other, when what in fact was happening was snipers shooting at both sides. This was what led people initially to side with the jihadis in Syria but when they quickly saw the nature of these people, which was fascistic, they went onside their government, and for the most part, won.

I'm yet to read his paper but listened to this discussion on it. I've been following him for some time though and he seems totally legit.
https://www.youtube.com/live/ljT_4G6SCX ... hare&t=649