Re-branding wanted terrorists like Al-Golani as "diversity-friendly state builders" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15331685
Al-Nusra(ISIS) leader Al Golani ironically named after the Golan Heights, without ever actually attacking them, is being re-branded as a "moderate rebel", reportedly he even said "diversity is our strength".

The Telegraph reports the Washington Near East Institute's argument:

How Syria’s ‘diversity-friendly’ jihadists plan on building a state

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham’s leader has issued statements aimed at allying fears among the population aligned with the Assad regime

HTS - How Syria's 'diversity-friendly' jihadists plan on building a state

The HTS military wing has begun the process of handing over responsibility of the newly taken areas to the HTS-backed Syrian Salvation Government
In the chaos of Syria’s war, it was a moment of bureaucratic ceremony.

Three men in camouflage combat fatigues met a handful of suited civilians within the captured city of Aleppo. At the meeting on Monday, fighters of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) formally passed over responsibility for the city to the jihadist group’s proto-government.

With the administration of Bashar al-Assad ousted from Aleppo, HTS now has responsibility for a city of two million people.

The symbolic ceremony, published on HTS’s social media channels, was meant to assure the public that the group was ready to govern as well as fight.

In Western capitals, there is clear – and understandable – ambivalence about the jihadist group that has captured swathes of north-west Syria over the past week.

Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, the HTS leader, has a $10 million US bounty on his head. He joined both al-Qaeda and the Islamic State (IS), before splitting from both groups and rejecting their “extreme” tactics.

Human rights groups have documented torture of political opponents in the region of Idlib, which HTS has controlled since the battle lines against the Assad regime froze during the Covid pandemic in 2020.

On Monday, the US, Britain, Germany, France and the UK released a non-committal statement calling on “all sides” to “de-escalate”.

While the brutality of the Assad regime’s war on the opposition saw Syria’s president become a pariah in the West, some officials cite the maxim that the “enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy”.

Syrian opposition fighters stand atop a seized Syrian army armoured vehicle in the outskirts of Hama,
The West seems unsure as to how to react to the HTS takeover of Aleppo Credit: AP/Ghaith Alsayed
Jolani has attempted to improve his reputation in the eyes of the West. In 2021, he gave an interview to PBS, the US state-funded broadcaster, calling the designation of HTS as a terrorist group “unfair” and “political”.

He said that under the Salvation Government, the administrative arm of HTS, rule should be Islamic “but not according to the standards of IS or even Saudi Arabia”.

In Idlib region Jolani has allowed women not to wear the veil and smokers to keep up the habit, a looser regime than, for example, the Taliban in Afghanistan.

As his fighters advanced into Aleppo, Jolani put out a series of statements intended to allay fears among the population, segments of which are aligned with the Assad regime.

Fighters should not “scare children”, he said, while HTS channels eagerly broadcast clips of Christians in the city going about their business as normal. Afram Ma’lui, the Archbishop of Aleppo, promised that services would be unaffected by the takeover.

On Tuesday, with regime forces fully ejected from the city, Jolani put out a second statement declaring “diversity is a strength”, a phrase more redolent of Western HR departments than jihadist warlords.

Even as the HTS leader armed and prepared his fighters in Idlib, he stressed the importance of state-building.

In March this year, Jolani addressed a cohort of top students at Idlib University, saying that rebels would have to build governments in the middle of war – rather than after the conflict ends.

“Every brick built in the liberated areas advances us hundreds of kilometres towards our fundamental goal, which is the liberation of Damascus – God willing,” he said.

HTS fighters
Now that HTS fighters have taken Aleppo, the focus has shifted to state-building
He is now putting the principle into practice, with a host of blandly titled bureaucratic bodies springing to life in Aleppo.

Garbage collection has already begun and electricity and water services have been reconnected.

HTS has distributed phone numbers for local residents to enquire about administrative services

The General Zakat Commission, an Islamic tax collection agency that also deals with the poor, has started to distribute emergency baskets of bread, while HTS’s General Organization for Grain Trade and Processing has provided fuel to bakeries to make sure they can continue production.

In total, the Ministry of Development and Humanitarian Affairs claims it has delivered 65,000 loaves of bread to locals in a campaign they are dubbing “Together We Return”.

In a sign that their proto-state has its eye on international legitimacy as well as local favour, HTS’s Political Affairs Department has provided phone numbers for foreigners and diplomats seeking to leave the city.

There is also the matter of how to handle the remnants of the Assad regime. On Tuesday, the Salvation Government said any soldiers, police or security forces who surrendered would be granted amnesty. There have been no confirmed reports of reprisal killings so far.


Meanwhile, residents have been told to contact Salvation Government officials if they come across weapons depots, warning that anyone caught buying or selling ammunition will be punished.

Since 2020, large numbers of refugees from Assad-held areas of Syria have lived under HTS rule. As Jolani’s forces seize back more of the country, they have been keen to present themselves as facilitating the return of the displaced to their homes.

The Idlib City Municipality has opened roads that were previously blocked off as they lead to Assad military positions. E-Clean, an HTS-aligned company that clears up public spaces, oversaw an operation to clear a road between the towns of Sarmin and Saraqib, which had been blocked for several years.

Social media has been filled with video clips of emotional family reunions in a boost to the group’s efforts to win hearts and minds.

The treatment of minorities will be under particularly close watch, however. Jolani has issued a number of recommendations, statements, and notices to make sure that no one harasses or harms the Christian or Kurdish community.

They also make sure to highlight the diversity of Syrian culture and heritage, stating “Aleppo is a meeting place of civilisation with cultural and religious diversity for all Syrians”.


In the initial days after the takeover of Aleppo, they have largely abided by their word.

But questions remain on how integrated minorities can be in an HTS administration. In the past, Jolani has engaged with Christians and Druze in Idlib and there is a Directorate of Minority Affairs within the Salvation Government. But they do not have representation within the government’s General Consultative Council. Neither do women, though they are far more active and public in society in general.

It is not just minorities who might be fearful of coming under HTS rule. A majority of Sunnis disagree with the HTS government and its hardline Islamic principles. Several activists have been imprisoned and tortured. In early 2024, a protest movement against Jolani’s rule in Idlib erupted, with the leader accused of amassing too much power and acting tyrannically. In response, HTS created a Complaints Committee for all the area it controls, issued a general amnesty for non-criminal prisoners, and cancelled residential building fees. It also formed a committee it claimed would help broaden the pool of people admitted to leadership positions.

Under Jolani, HTS has transformed itself dramatically, splitting away from its explicitly jihadist roots. This new stage might provide another platform for evolution. Certainly the group’s institution-building over the past four years has positioned it well to consolidate battlefield victories into a much larger state-building project.

But while it may be far more liberal than IS or the Taliban, Jolani and his forces remain, at heart, an authoritarian armed group. If they are to win support among distrustful locals – and grudging acceptance from the watching West – they will have to make sure that the plethora of bureaucratic initiatives launched in recent days are more than just a PR operation.

Aaron Y. Zelin is the Gloria and Ken Levy Senior Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and author of The Age of Political Jihadism: A Study of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham
#15331691
noemon wrote:Al-Nusra(ISIS) leader Al Golani ironically named after the Golan Heights, without ever actually attacking them, is being re-branded as a "moderate rebel", reportedly he even said "diversity is our strength".

The Telegraph and the Washington Near East Institute report:


@noemon :

They have the same aim as AQ and ISIS and all the rest. Leopard doesnt change its spots.
#15331704
But while it may be far more liberal than IS or the Taliban, Jolani and his forces remain, at heart, an authoritarian armed group.

So back in the late nineties, I became aware of the deep sickness of Islamophillia that had diseased our societies. I realised that the dynamics of Cultural Marxism inevitably lead to Islamophillia. Back then there was no concept of Islamophobia, at least I never came across it. I remember the Liberals absolute faith at the time. If you claimed to be anti Islam, no Liberal would believe you for a second. Anyone who purported to be anti Islamic was a White Supremacist Neo Nazi, just pretending to be anti Islam for cheap popularism. It did no good to point out that Nazism and Neo Nazism were drenched in Islamophillia both during and after the second world war. That Adolph Hitler was a rabid Islamophile, sending out the invitations for Waansee the day after he met with the Mufti.

I was a strong supporter of the Northern Alliance prior to 9/11. The Northern Alliance were Islamists, but we needed to go with the lesser evil. Despite my support for the Northern Alliance, after 9/11, I pointed out that Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were considerably more moderate than the Taliban and that in the context of the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden was a bit of moderniser. Needless to say my brutally accurate opinions were not met with the welcome and gratitude that they deserved.

Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda in Iraq were never really the same thing, ideologically or organisationally. My understanding is that Nusra were a Syrian break way from ISIS that chose to align with Bin Laden and Zawahiri. Still we should be going to war with these people and their Muslim Turkish backers. We should be backing Assad. We should be seeking an urgent peace with Russia.
#15331729
Those were the days, when Muslim Albanian drug lords with more civic rights in Serbia than in Albania, with more civic rights in Serbia than the Scots in the UK were somehow aggrieved victims of IMF loan liberal Milosevic cause he removed their veto power from the Serbian parliament while the Serbs never had a veto in the Kossovar one allthewhile Kossovo was an official Serbian province.
#15331792
I think that the reason why the western powers are more so supportive of the Free Syrian Army more generally , more so than the Syrian Democratic Forces in particular , is that the latter is made up, at least in part , of revolutionary leftists . So the west might feel that it could better do business with the so called moderate Islamists .
#15333058
Deutschmania wrote:I think that the reason why the western powers are more so supportive of the Free Syrian Army more generally , more so than the Syrian Democratic Forces in particular , is that the latter is made up, at least in part , of revolutionary leftists . So the west might feel that it could better do business with the so called moderate Islamists .


Or is the West funding both sides of many civil wars in order to destroy small countries and steal their resources?

That would make the West parasitic, rather than benevolent. Which is it, Deutschmania?
#15334567
Deutschmania wrote:So the west might feel that it could better do business with the so called.

Of course, the West, historically wary of leftist revolutionary movements, viewed the FSA, albeit with Islamist elements, as a less dangerous ally than the SDF, with its commitment to leftist ideas and ties to the Kurdistan Workers' Party.
This historical fear, rooted in Cold War ideological confrontation...
#15334577
@HDR

You went to war against Saddam and killed half a million babies because he was supposedly funding Islamists 20 years ago.

Today, you are funding those same Islamists and wonder why 70% of the world hates you.

America, 'The shining city upon a hill' my arse.
#15334588
ingliz wrote:[usermention=468568]You went to war against Saddam and killed half a million babies because he was supposedly funding Islamists 20 years ago.
Today, you are funding those same Islamists and wonder why 70% of the world hates you.
America, 'The shining city upon a hill' my arse.

Saddam was a monster who deserved to be destroyed, not hypocritically mourned. There was no funding for Islamists 20 years ago, that's a brazen lie designed to justify vile propaganda. Western countries today are operating in very different circumstances, trying to undo the consequences of their own stupidity. And to claim that they are supporting “the same ones” is the height of cynicism...

That's not criticism, that's low grade propaganda, manipulating emotions and distorting the truth. :roll:
#15334589
The Yanks totally destroyed the government in Lybia so they could give the country to jihadists and now they have done the same in Syria. Just like when the CIA sent Bin Laden out into the world to do American dirty work. There is no country on earth that has done more to support Islamism than the United States.
#15334592
@HDR

Another thing that pisses me off is Americans playing the victim.

Ten Americans were killed in a terrorist attack in New Orleans today and you are asked to mourn.

Why?

Surely, as your Mrs Albright said, you should say, "We think the price [blowback for fucking up the world] is worth it.”


:lol:
#15334595
HDR wrote:Saddam was a monster who deserved to be destroyed, not hypocritically mourned. There was no funding for Islamists 20 years ago, that's a brazen lie designed to justify vile propaganda. Western countries today are operating in very different circumstances, trying to undo the consequences of their own stupidity. And to claim that they are supporting “the same ones” is the height of cynicism...

That's not criticism, that's low grade propaganda, manipulating emotions and distorting the truth. :roll:

Western countries have been trying to undo the consequences of their own stupidity since the Treaty of Westphalia. Hasn’t worked too well so far, has it?
#15334599
Potemkin wrote:Western countries have been trying to undo the consequences of their own stupidity since the Treaty of Westphalia. Hasn’t worked too well so far, has it?

Look at the world around you! :hmm:
How many wars, how much suffering, how much injustice - and all this is largely the result of centuries of Western “wisdom”!
They are trying to clean up the mess they themselves have made, but as you can see, they are doing a terrible job.
Again and again they step on the same rake, as if someone cursed their mind!

And all this with endless talk of “peace” and “democracy”. Isn't it funny?
#15334613
HDR wrote:Look at the world around you! :hmm:
How many wars, how much suffering, how much injustice - and all this is largely the result of centuries of Western “wisdom”!
They are trying to clean up the mess they themselves have made, but as you can see, they are doing a terrible job.
Again and again they step on the same rake, as if someone cursed their mind!

And all this with endless talk of “peace” and “democracy”. Isn't it funny?

The Treaty of Westphalia? More like the Treaty of “West Failure”, amirite? Huh? Huh? :excited:
#15334633
ingliz wrote:@HDR

Another thing that pisses me off is Americans playing the victim.

Ten Americans were killed in a terrorist attack in New Orleans today and you are asked to mourn.

Why?

Surely, as your Mrs Albright said, you should say, "We think the price [blowback for fucking up the world] is worth it.”


:lol:



This is actually the first I have heard of this incident . I have yet to check my e-mails today . Imagine that , someone in Malta found out about a terrorist attack in the U.S.A. before I did . But is terrorism , and mass murder just par for the course here in the States ? Is it to become the new normal that we have to learn to live with , given our extensive , some may argue excessive , freedoms , especially as it relates to gun rights ? But at least with motor vehicles , unlike with firearms , the automobile must be registered and the driver licensed . But due to a loose interpretation of the Second Amendment , coupled with the First Amendment , such terrorist training camps as " Islambergs" , operated by Jamaat ul Fuqra , have been permitted to function with impunity .


https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/new-orleans-mass-casualty-bourbon-street-01-01-25-hnk

https://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-new-orleans-attack-bourbon-street/story?id=117247072

https://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/domestic-terrorism/terrorist-training-camps-in-the-us/660940716001





#15334691
@Deutschmania

Another 'possible terrorist' incident from yesterday was one of Musk's Tesla trucks blowing up outside the entrance to the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas.

That one tickled my funny bone.

Amateurish?

Yes, only the driver of the rented pick-up died.

But it's the thought that counts and whoever thought this one up. God or man, had a sense of humour.


:)
#15334692
ingliz wrote:Another 'possible terrorist' incident from yesterday was one of Musk's Tesla trucks blowing up outside the entrance to the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas.

This is not an act of violence, but a salute to Trump and his loyal servant Musk, indicating the deep polarization of society and the willingness of some forces to resort to radical measures.
People have many reasons for such actions...
#15334700
HDR wrote:This is not an act of violence, but a salute to Trump and his loyal servant Musk, indicating the deep polarization of society and the willingness of some forces to resort to radical measures.
People have many reasons for such actions...


@HDR :

Are you making an apologia for terrorism?

Terrorism by definition is not a reasonable thing to engage in.

@Verv : All my life I've been a believer in[…]

What he wanted and what he needed to do are two d[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

My God the drivel that comes out of these Libera[…]

Good corporations and CEOs make money by contribu[…]