Why are left wing libertarian/classical liberals hated in the Asperger's Syndrome community - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Classical liberalism. The individual before the state, non-interventionist, free-market based society.
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#14930007
One Degree wrote:So unless you are totally Socialist, you default to Capitalist? There are no stages involved in the evolution?

The socialists do have their own "progressive theory of history" which could allow them to claim that a Keynesian state was a stage on the way to full Socialism, perhaps some do. If they did though it would be just as much a false claim as that of an innocent (I didn't want to say ignorant) American libertarian or conservative claiming that a Keynesian state was "socialist" just because it also happens to involve a large, or just interfering, public sector. The raison d'etre and modus operandi of a big state is completely different for Keynesian polities vs Socialist polities. Keynesians aren't broad spectrum misanthropes, their idea is to look after their people not reduce them to cockroaches. It's a kind of paternalism.

One Degree wrote:I thought the whole idea was stages. I find the aversion of modern socialism to being attached to USSR efforts bizarre. It is even more bizarre for Communists to not want to take the credit for the acceptance of Socialism.
Maybe just my lack of understanding?

It is your lack of understanding. Part of the problem might stem from Keynesian capitalists occasionally confusing everyone by calling themselves socialists. There was a time when the lies of socialists had some currency, back when the USSR was still around, at that time Keynesians might use that branding themselves to just to help pull the silly and ignorant away from real socialism. For example Hitler called his party creed National Socialism. It was really National Keynesianism though because although he did deliver actual socialism to the jews, for his own people he delivered Keynesianism.

In addition to that in politics everybody lies.
#14949678
LaDexter wrote:Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron.

True, but left != socialist. The essence of the left is egalitarianism, not socialism, just as the essence of the right is elitism, not capitalism. Traditionally, the left has been more committed to liberty than the right.
Libertarian is 180 degrees from socialism.

No. That describes the typical American -- i.e., feudal -- libertarian, but not genuine (i.e., geo-)libertarians. Feudal libertarians oppose genuine liberty, because they believe that landowners should own everyone's rights to liberty.
Zamuel wrote:Never been to Sweden have you ?

Sweden is not socialist.
You have a lot to learn about socialism.

Most socialists do, too.
#14951790
Sweden actually had a brief chance to move on from Keynes to actual Socialism through the Meidner Plan. The basic idea was that workers would gradually gain the ownership of their companies through wage-earner funds in the span of a couple of decades. The employers' organization managed to torpedo it and water down the original proposal to almost nothing, then in 1976 Social Democrats lost the election, and that was it for the plan.
#14957493
LaDexter wrote:Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron.

Libertarian is 180 degrees from socialism.


Left Libertarianism is about 'live and let live'. Right Libertarianism is about 'live and let die'. Left Libertarians want to help everyone maximise their freedom. Right Libertarians, driven by Randian rational self-interest, are only concerned with maximising their own freedoms.
#14965484
Cartertonian wrote:Left Libertarianism is about 'live and let live'. Right Libertarianism is about 'live and let die'. Left Libertarians want to help everyone maximise their freedom. Right Libertarians, driven by Randian rational self-interest, are only concerned with maximising their own freedoms.


Eh, I don't necessary consider Rand a right-libertarian, nor do most right-libertarians of the Von Mises variety.

Hoppe even argues that Rand was part of the reason Left-Libertarianism became a thing, arguing for the necessity of the state; other left-libertarians merely took this further in their strange arguments for anti-discrimination laws, etc.

To me, this is the great divide, do you believe property owners have the right to discriminate against anyone regarding their property and products? How you answer that will generally tell me if you are on the right or left libertarian side of the equation.

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