- 09 Oct 2014 21:28
#14474093
Hows this for an incentive to be efficient, be efficient or you will be voted out of authority by your fellow workers.
Here we see the heartless capitalism inherent in your system! Most of those "homeless bums" as you so charitably call them, would be perfectly well off if they were given a fair and equal opportunity in life instead of left to rot in poverty. Besides, why would any really incompetent person be voted in to be a delegate for the Soviet in the first place? You do realise not everyone in the economy is voting?
Here is precisely where you are wrong. Under my system, a worker does a certain quantity and quality of work and receives a roughly equivalent amount of capital, decided upon democratically by all the workers in the Soviet, with guidance from the elected Labour Commissars, who supervise every work unit. Everyone else does the same. No-one can get a leg up over others by inheriting capital. Where is the inequality?
Wait, so I have to uproot my life and my work pattern and say goodbye to my co-workers that I have been with for x number of years, maybe sell my house to move to a whole different area because my boss is a dick? Sounds great this ideology of yours... What's wrong with my plan of me taking over my workplace with my mates and running it as partners? It sounds a lot better to me, the worker on the ground, than your plan.
Does being a man mean you have to rape women? No. Does being an investor and employer mean you have to use wage slavery? Yes. These people could have set up a co-op. But they chose slavery, in the same way that slave owners in the south chose slavery. neither deserves pity or mercy.
Why would I want to "unravel all the wrongs done in the past"? The capital is stolen capital and should be allocated to everyone equally to insure total equality of opportunity.
Aristotle should have done a few days backbreaking labour in the fields like his slaves did every day. When he would be crawling in the mud, begging for respite, he would have had a few seconds before he would be whipped back into action, to contemplate the utter, utter idiocy of that comment.
They are doing it for their own benefit. If they slack off, they will be voted from office and a more motivated person put in their place. This is democratic collectivisation after all. Any embezzlement will be punished harshly, probably by hard labour and class solidarity re-education.
Why?
see my above comment on why in reality no-one would want to move to get work, with other options available.
Our entire history is a mountain of dead, raped, defiled, bodies-Dagoth Ur
Truth To Power wrote: It was an example of what always happens when "wasteful" competition is removed from an economy: even more waste in the absence of accurate and effective incentives for efficiency.
Hows this for an incentive to be efficient, be efficient or you will be voted out of authority by your fellow workers.
Truth To Power wrote: That is a guarantee of general economic failure and poverty, because the most needy elements of the economy are precisely those that don't know how to make effective use of the goods you demand they get first crack at. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE NEEDY. If you want to select someone to entrust with managing resources efficiently, do you choose a skilled and experienced manager, or a homeless bum on Skid Row? Because the latter is the needier one, and always will be.
Here we see the heartless capitalism inherent in your system! Most of those "homeless bums" as you so charitably call them, would be perfectly well off if they were given a fair and equal opportunity in life instead of left to rot in poverty. Besides, why would any really incompetent person be voted in to be a delegate for the Soviet in the first place? You do realise not everyone in the economy is voting?
Truth To Power wrote: Every contract is based on power inequalities, which are inherent in the human condition.
Here is precisely where you are wrong. Under my system, a worker does a certain quantity and quality of work and receives a roughly equivalent amount of capital, decided upon democratically by all the workers in the Soviet, with guidance from the elected Labour Commissars, who supervise every work unit. Everyone else does the same. No-one can get a leg up over others by inheriting capital. Where is the inequality?
ComradeTim wrote:How will me having access to the land help me if my boss fires me from a sales job?
Truth To Power wrote:By putting you in an advantageous location for getting another job, WITHOUT having to meet a parasitic landowner's extortion demands just to continue having access to such opportunities.
Wait, so I have to uproot my life and my work pattern and say goodbye to my co-workers that I have been with for x number of years, maybe sell my house to move to a whole different area because my boss is a dick? Sounds great this ideology of yours... What's wrong with my plan of me taking over my workplace with my mates and running it as partners? It sounds a lot better to me, the worker on the ground, than your plan.
Truth To Power wrote: You could with equal "logic" and "justice" claim that as some men have raped some women, "men" owe restitution to "women." It's just absurd, irrational and evil collectivist claptrap.
Does being a man mean you have to rape women? No. Does being an investor and employer mean you have to use wage slavery? Yes. These people could have set up a co-op. But they chose slavery, in the same way that slave owners in the south chose slavery. neither deserves pity or mercy.
Truth To Power wrote: For the exact reason Henry George explained: the thief's heir is not the thief, his victim's heir is not his victim, and it is impossible to unravel all the wrongs done in the past, or even to be confident that in attempting to do so you are righting wrongs and not compounding them. Did you even read what he wrote? You haven't attempted to address it, let alone refute it.
Why would I want to "unravel all the wrongs done in the past"? The capital is stolen capital and should be allocated to everyone equally to insure total equality of opportunity.
Truth To Power wrote: You need to take a couple of months off work to ponder the deep wisdom of someone much, much smarter than you: "The worst form of inequality is trying to make unequals equal." -- Aristotle
Aristotle should have done a few days backbreaking labour in the fields like his slaves did every day. When he would be crawling in the mud, begging for respite, he would have had a few seconds before he would be whipped back into action, to contemplate the utter, utter idiocy of that comment.
Truth To Power wrote: Are you one of those fools who thinks managing a business or farm isn't work? Or are you one of those fools who thinks managers will be just as expert, motivated and productive when managing the collective's capital for the collective benefit as they would be managing their own capital for their own benefit?
They are doing it for their own benefit. If they slack off, they will be voted from office and a more motivated person put in their place. This is democratic collectivisation after all. Any embezzlement will be punished harshly, probably by hard labour and class solidarity re-education.
Truth To Power wrote: Yes, because unlike you, I am willing to know the fact that the workers will suffer much, much more if we adopt a policy of redressing injustice collectively, without regard for who is actually a perpetrator of injustice and who a victim of it.
Why?
Truth To Power wrote: It's not capitalism, as it does not admit private ownership of land. What I propose is private ownership and control of capital for its rightful owners' rightful benefit, and rightful public administration of possession and use of land for rightful public benefit -- which will almost always mean control by private users for their own benefit, obtained by paying the land's use value (market rent) to the community to devote to public benefit.
see my above comment on why in reality no-one would want to move to get work, with other options available.
Our entire history is a mountain of dead, raped, defiled, bodies-Dagoth Ur