Alexander, Jesus, the Greeks were they Nordic Aryans? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14721370
noemon wrote:So why did you mention the Nazis?



Are you not talking about my "pathetic Nordic supremacy" and not constantly referring to my German citizenship in nearly every post?
I am not interested in your background at all, I just try to have an intelligent discussion about the subject, instead of calling names.

noemon wrote:Sparta did not have any non-Greek slaves, the Helots and all their slaves were Achaeans, that is Greeks.


The term "Greek" was a political thing at that time, only free persons were Greek citizens.

Anyway, most slaves were from very different far away countries, because Greeks wanted to be sure that the slave would speak different languages and could not communicate with each others.

There is a lack of direct evidence of slave traffic, but corroborating evidence exists. Firstly, certain nationalities are consistently and significantly represented in the slave population, such as the corps of Scythian archers employed by Athens as a police force—originally 300, but eventually nearly a thousand.[72] Secondly, the names given to slaves in the comedies often had a geographical link; thus Thratta, used by Aristophanes in The Wasps, The Acharnians, and Peace, simply signified Thracian woman.[73] Finally, the nationality of a slave was a significant criterion for major purchasers; the ancient advice was not to concentrate too many slaves of the same origin in the same place, in order to limit the risk of revolt.[74] It is also probable that, as with the Romans, certain nationalities were considered more productive as slaves than others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_i ... mographics


noemon wrote:It is not proof that they mixed with people in the colonies, for all we know the white girl could be the mongrel and the darker men the original Greeks, you have manufactured an image in your head and you believe that this image of Nordic-looking original Greeks is for some reason the correct one and any deviation from that image the result of admixture, when in reality it is completely manufactured and evidently false as well.


Nordic people have blond hair and blue eyes.
The ancient Greeks were Caucasian people, and they looked like they are documented in ancient Greeks sculptures. We can see the scull shape and facial traits of ancient Greeks in their sculptures.
And yes, the sculptures were painted, and scientists can find traces of paint on them, and restore the colour of their skin and hair.

The archaeologists aren’t the first to notice that ancient sculptures featured bits of color, but they are the first to use extensive scientific methods to reveal the colors. Their arsenal included X-ray fluorescence, infrared spectroscopy, and ultraviolet analysis, among other methods.

https://moco-choco.com/2014/04/18/true- ... n-statues/


And here are some examples of ancient Mediterranean people:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

noemon wrote:Again your image is manufactured because some German romantics found their idealised forms of humans in Georgia. Greece has changed hands once since the Roman Empire. Georgia has changed hands about 30 times since the antiquity.


I was not talking about whole Georgia, I was talking about a very isolated Svanetia region of Georgia, scientists agree that these people did not change during the centuries.

The marauding Mongols never reached Svanetia and, for a time, the region became a cultural safe house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svaneti



Well, why did they not look for a perfect beauty in Germany?
Why did they not look for a perfect beauty in Ethiopia?

Is it not obvious that any race believes that their own racial traits are the standard of beauty?

It is idiotic to call Europeans "racists" because they believe that their own racial traits are the most beautiful.


"...the Thracians' gods had light blue eyes and red hair, the Ethiopians' snub noses and black skin..."

The Greeks: A Portrait of Self and Others
by Paul Cartledge


It is obvious that Greek gods looked more like the Thracians's gods, and Thracia was next door to ancient Greece, Ethiopia was far away.

The mummies from Egypt looked rather like Ethiopians, not like Greek gods, documented in ancient sculptures.
#14721468
ArtAllm wrote:Are you not talking about my "pathetic Nordic supremacy" and not constantly referring to my German citizenship in nearly every post?
I am not interested in your background at all, I just try to have an intelligent discussion about the subject, instead of calling names.


Your Nordic supremacism was quite evident at the start, now that you have edited your claims from originally Nordic-looking Greeks to swarthy-Caucasian-looking Greeks, I have not accused you of Nordic supremacism and the post you quoted did not contain any references to either Nordicism or Nazism, did you need to bring it back up to victimise yourself however?

The term "Greek" was a political thing at that time, only free persons were Greek citizens.
Anyway, most slaves were from very different far away countries, because Greeks wanted to be sure that the slave would speak different languages and could not communicate with each others.


You claimed Spartan slaves were non-Greeks, that is utterly false. The Helots were Greeks. The majority of Athenian slaves were also Greeks. And small numbers of Thracians and Illyrians in Athens does not make your case for "Arabization".

The mummies from Egypt looked rather like Ethiopians, not like Greek gods, documented in ancient sculptures


The paintings of mummified rich upper-class Greeks of Arsinoe look like typical Mediterranean people, they do not look like Ethiopians, who are Black-African people.
#14721833
noemon wrote:Your Nordic supremacism was quite evident at the start, now that you have edited your claims from originally Nordic-looking Greeks to swarthy-Caucasian-looking Greeks, I have not accused you of Nordic supremacism...


Let's look:

By ArtAllm - Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:56 pm
Ancient Greece and ancient Rome were multi ethnic societies, and maybe even multi racial societies. And the ancient paintings prove that.
...
Different tribes lived in these region, there were no Italians or Spaniards 2000 years ago. Even Greeks were rather a culture, they were not homogeneous.



By noemon - Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:47 pm
And there I thought you claimed that they were actually Nordic.


By ArtAllm - Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:05 pm
Only in your fantasy world.


Sorry, but you sound like a broken record, you invent things and then you try to burn your own straw-man.

noemon wrote:You claimed Spartan slaves were non-Greeks, that is utterly false. The Helots were Greeks. The majority of Athenian slaves were also Greeks. And small numbers of Thracians and Illyrians in Athens does not make your case for "Arabization".


You have pasted some pictures of athletes and claimed that these guys looked like ordinary Greek males.

Well, there were a lot of Ethiopian athletes in Greece, and all black Africans were called Ethiopians.

So according to your logic the ancient Greeks may also have looked like this guy:

Image

An Ethiopian slave attempts to break in a horse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Greece




With the establishment of the Ptolemaic dynasty and Macedonian rule in Egypt, after the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C., came an increased knowledge of Nubia (in modern Sudan), the neighboring kingdom along the lower Nile ruled by kings who resided in the capital cities of Napata and later Meroe.

Cosmopolitan metropolises, including Alexandria in the Nile Delta, became centers where significant Greek and African populations lived together.
...
During the Hellenistic period (ca. 323–31 B.C.), the repertoire of African imagery in Greek art expanded greatly. While scenes related to Ethiopians in mythology became less common, many more types occurred that suggest they constituted a larger minority element in the population of the Hellenistic world than the preceding period (18.145.10). Depictions of Ethiopians as athletes and entertainers are suggestive of some of the occupations they held. Africans also served as slaves in ancient Greece (74.51.2263), together with both Greeks and other non-Greek peoples who were enslaved during wartime and through piracy. However, scholars continue to debate whether or not the ancient Greeks viewed black Africans with racial prejudice.

Large-scale portraits of Ethiopians made by Greek artists appear for the first time in the Hellenistic period and high-quality works, such as images on gold jewelry and fine bronze statuettes, are tangible evidence of the integration of Africans into various levels of Greek society.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/afrg/hd_afrg.htm



noemon wrote:The paintings of mummified rich upper-class Greeks of Arsinoe look like typical Mediterranean people, they do not look like Ethiopians, who are Black-African people.


No, they do not!
I have pasted the restored colour of skin of Greek sclultpures, they had rather white skin and perfect Caucasian scull shapes, though they did not have blond hair or blue eyes. But I have never claimed that most ancient Greeks had blue eyes and blond hair.

So if the gods of ancient Greeks did not look like an average Greek, then ancient Greeks suffered from an inferiority complex, they did not like how they looked and invented a symbol of beauty that did not correspond with their own racial traits.

I cannot imagine that this was really the case.
#14722835
ArtAllm wrote:Let's look:
Sorry, but you sound like a broken record, you invent things and then you try to burn your own straw-man.


Yes let's look at your unwarranted whining like a broken record.

You claimed that the Mosaics depicting Alexander as swarthy not only have allegedly gone dark because of the varnish failing to explain why the white lady in the same mosaic has not gone dark as well but you even made the tremendous claim that swarthy Europeans do not actually exist.

ArtAllm wrote:Neomon, people on old icons look like Europeans, but they have dark skin. You cannot find such people in real life. The painting were protected by a varnish layer that becomes dark as time passes


Alexander:

Image

ArtAllm wrote:The mosaics were created many centuries later, when the ethnic composition of Greeks already changed, and the artist took as a model men that lived centuries later.


Failing that you claimed that the original Greeks could have never been swarthy and that all swarthy-looking art was created by mixed Greeks on their own image, assuming the default Greek as some white snow-flake, utterly rejecting the evident that Greeks and Romans were/are in fact swarthy and darker than Nordics and inventing mongrelisation in the most elitist and racist society in the antiquity(a society were mixing with another Greek from another city resulted in loss of citizenship and consequently privilege, let alone a non-Greek or as you claim racially divergent people). This assumption of yours is textbook Nordicism sourcing from Nazism. At least don't whine about it.

Then you said it yourself:

ArtAllm wrote:I just think that white Caucasians have the right to preserve their countries, and this is preservationism, not supremacism.


No, they do not!
I have pasted the restored colour of skin of Greek sclultpures, they had rather white skin and perfect Caucasian scull shapes, though they did not have blond hair or blue eyes. But I have never claimed that most ancient Greeks had blue eyes and blond hair.


Yes they did, you have only posted the images that suit your Nordicist narrative and neglected the ones that don't, from your source:

Image
Image
#14724178
noemon wrote:You claimed that the Mosaics depicting Alexander as swarthy not only have allegedly gone dark because of the varnish...


No, I was referring to the Icon, and I have mentioned that many times in this thread.

noemon wrote:Failing that you claimed that the original Greeks could have never been swarthy and that all swarthy-looking art was created by mixed Greeks on their own image, assuming the default Greek as some white snow-flake...


The skin pigmentation of Greeks and Europeans (this refers to the indigenous people before the mass migration) is represented in this map:

Image

As we see, Egyptians and Greeks have a very different skin pigmentation.
The Greeks are not as white as "snow-flakes", but not as dark as Egyptians, speak the mummies you claimed to represent Greeks.

noemon wrote:Yes they did, you have only posted the images that suit your Nordicist narrative and neglected the ones that don't, from your source:

Image
Image


Well, it seems that we agree about the fact that as a result of slavery many different races lived in Greece.

But the important point is that the ancient Greeks pictured their Gods and Elites with white skin. So there are two possibilities:

-All Greeks were swarthy, but they loved white people, that was for some reason their standard of beauty, they did not picture their Gods and Elite like they really look. Why?

-The Greek elite was not as swarthy, as the average Greek, and that is the reason why their Gods had whiter skin, than the average Greeks looked.

You failed to explain this phenomenon.

Image
#14724181
ArtAllm wrote:As we see, Egyptians and Greeks have a very different skin pigmentation.
The Greeks are not as white as "snow-flakes", but not as dark as Egyptians, speak the mummies you claimed to represent Greeks.


The Greeks themselves have written that they are darker than Hyperboreans and lighter than Egyptians, but the Greek pictures I posted are pictures of Greeks not Egyptians and they are consistent with that obvious fact. In fact if you are curious as how did the Egyptians look when the Greeks met them then look no further than Gypsies which is what the Greeks called the darker Indians thinking they look identical to Egyptians.

Well, it seems that we agree about the fact that as a result of slavery many different races lived in Greece


No we don't, you claimed that the majority of Spartan slaves were foreigners. Your claim was false, the presence of an Ethiopian slave taming a horse in Athens, does not make any point for you just like the presence of this German guy does not make the Germans swarthy:

Image

By your logic Germans should be looking swarthy right now, cause this guy spread his Blackness in the pot and should have made them light brownish already.

But the important point is that the ancient Greeks pictured their Gods and Elites with white skin. So there are two possibilities:
-All Greeks were swarthy, but they loved white people, that was for some reason their standard of beauty, they did not picture their Gods and Elite like they really look. Why?
-The Greek elite was not as swarthy, as the average Greek, and that is the reason why their Gods had whiter skin, than the average Greeks looked.
You failed to explain this phenomenon.


I see you revert back to Nordic nazism with no evidence whatsoever to back up any of these claims of yours. Athena reimagined by some artist with its basic features of being built out of ivory and gold, does not make your case because ivory is white, if that were the case, then all Bronze Statues would be Black Africans and there are many Bronze statues of Athena and Zeus laying around, which is as childish and ridiculous as it gets.

Here she is again Athena:

Image
#14724646
noemon wrote:
The Greeks themselves have written that they are darker than Hyperboreans and lighter than Egyptians, but the Greek pictures I posted are pictures of Greeks not Egyptians and they are consistent with that obvious fact.



I have pasted three pictures of "Egyptian Greeks", the persons in the pics had totally different racial traits. You could not deny this fact, but you believed that the European looking girl was a mongrel, but the non- European looking persons were Greeks.

:D


noemon wrote:I see you revert back to Nordic nazism with no evidence whatsoever to back up any of these claims of yours.



Name calling is no argument, and I have provided the needed evidence.


noemon wrote: Athena reimagined by some artist with its basic features of being built out of ivory and gold, does not make your case because ivory is white...




She was painted, the scientists restored the original colours.

Image



Reconstruction of the massive
chryselephantine statue of the
Goddess of Athena, sculpted for
the Greek Parthenon. Nearly all
important Greek statues were
painted. Thus sculpture, along
with murals, were the most
common forms of painted art.

http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/artist- ... alette.htm

#14724653
ArtAllm wrote:I have pasted three pictures of "Egyptian Greeks", the persons in the pics had totally different racial traits. You could not deny this fact, but you believed that the European looking girl was a mongrel, but the non- European looking persons were Greeks.


That is non-sense, the people in the portraits are Greeks they all look very similar and I do not believe that any of these people are mongrels since as I have explained to you, Greeks were extremely elitist & racist both institutionally and culturally and because these people were rich upper-class Greek citizens something that mixed people could not be, I have used the girl as an example to demonstrate your non-sense which is your Nordic nazi assumption to assume that a white snow-flake is genuine, default unmixed Greek, while the numerous swarthy ones are "mixed mongrels". Your assumption is ridiculous based on nothing other than your Nordic Nazi ideology.

Name calling is no argument, and I have provided the needed evidence.


You have not provided any evidence for your Nordicist Nazi assumption about the default original Greek being some Nordic individual instead of the typical swarthy Med abundant in the area. There is absolutely no doubt about your ideology and I don't see why you feel ashamed of it while upholding it and also why you're whining when you brought it up again.

She was painted, the scientists restored the original colours.


The white ivory is not painted and neither was it painted in the antiquity and to further demonstrate how much non-sensical crap you post, the picture you posted is not a scientifically restored sculpture because the sculpture does not actually exist any more and because LeQuire is a sculptor not a scientist.

Image
#14725957
noemon wrote:That is non-sense, the people in the portraits are Greeks they all look very similar and I do not believe that any of these people are mongrels since as I have explained to you, Greeks were extremely elitist & racist both institutionally and culturally and because these people were rich upper-class Greek citizens something that mixed people could not be, I have used the girl as an example to demonstrate your non-sense which is your Nordic nazi assumption to assume that a white snow-flake is genuine, default unmixed Greek, while the numerous swarthy ones are "mixed mongrels". Your assumption is ridiculous based on nothing other than your Nordic Nazi ideology.

You have not provided any evidence for your Nordicist Nazi assumption about the default original Greek being some Nordic individual instead of the typical swarthy Med abundant in the area. There is absolutely no doubt about your ideology and I don't see why you feel ashamed of it while upholding it and also why you're whining when you brought it up again.


Your argumentation is childish, and playing the "Nazi-Card" is especially stupid, because I was talking about the Caucasian race in general, not about the Nordic type of this race. I know your opinion, but you failed to support it with any evidence. It is idiotic to believe that upper class Greeks did not mix after Alexander the Great ordered race mixing.

And it is especially idiotic to believe that after the death of Alexander this process could be undone, speak the mixed children of Greek elite just killed.

noemon wrote:The white ivory is not painted and neither was it painted in the antiquity...


The source I quoted says that it was painted.
And there is an obvious correlation between skin colour and facial traits.
The "Greeks" from Egypt had totally different facial traits, so if these persons were created as statues, they would not look like Europeans.

Michael Jackson had to change not only his skin colour, to look like an European, he had to change his facial traits, too.
#14725958
ArtAllm wrote:Your argumentation is childish, and playing the "Nazi-Card" is especially stupid, because I was talking about the Caucasian race in general, not about the Nordic type of this race. I know your opinion, but you failed to support it with any evidence. It is idiotic to believe that upper class Greeks did not mixe after Alexander the Great ordered race mixing. And it is especially idiotic to believe that after the death of Alexander this process could be undone, speak the mixed children of Greek elite just killed.


You brought up the Nazi-card again to play victim and your argumentation as cited in the posts quoted is Nazi and childish, you cannot assume that the proverbial, original and default Greek is some Nordic-type when you have evidence of so many Meds, when you are talking about the Med and when the Greeks themselves distinguished themselves from Hyperboreans and argue that all these Med-types are the result of mongrelisation. That is in fact an assumption that Nordicist Nazis make out of their own asses and without any evidence but purely out of Nordic exceptionalism.

Alexander's policy was reversed by his Successors and is confirmed by the sources that you brought forward, namely that only pure-blooded Greeks were entitled to Greek citizenship, this is also confirmed by the Academic article I gave you calling the Greek rule in Egypt as Apartheid, and without citizenship you could do fuck all, you virtually had no rights at all, let alone become rich enough to have your portrait done and get buried in Pharaonic fashion.

The source I quoted says that it was painted.


No it doesn't, the ivory was not painted and no scientist has done any official reconstruction work on the sculpture, by for example examining the sculpture, sampling it and so on and forth, what you brought forward is the artistic reconstruction as imagined by a contemporary artist.
#14726184
noemon wrote:... you cannot assume that the proverbial, original and default Greek is some Nordic-type ...


What do you mean with "Nordic-type"?
It seems that in your book anybody who does not look like these swarthy "Egyptians Greeks" are "Nordic-types".

Image

Image

Image

It seems that you are fighting your own straw man.
No, I said that ancient Greeks looked like today Georgians from Svaneti region, and they do not look like Nordic people, they are neither blond, nor blue eyed.



noemon wrote:"... Nordicist Nazis..."


Bla, bla, and a straw-man!

noemon wrote:Alexander's policy was reversed by his Successors and is confirmed by the sources that you brought forward, namely that only pure-blooded Greeks were entitled to Greek citizenship...


So what happened to the children with mixed blood? Were they killed?

noemon wrote:No it doesn't, the ivory was not painted and no scientist has done any official reconstruction work on the sculpture, by for example examining the sculpture, sampling it and so on and forth, what you brought forward is the artistic reconstruction as imagined by a contemporary artist.


So do you really believe that the woman with Caucasian facial traits, that was used as a model by the ancient artist, looked like your mummies from Egypt, and had dark skin?

Is it not obvious that there is a correlation between the facial traits and skin colour? Forget about blue eyes and blond hair, just concentrate on the skin colour and facial traits.

And yes, there is a lot of ancient literature that describes how the ancient Greek Gods looked, we can be sure that the ancient Greeks pictured their Gods not only with Caucasian facial traits, they pictured them like Nordic people.

Athena, the daughter of Zeus, goddess of wisdom, insight, cunning and strategic warfare in The Iliad, is described no more no less than a total of 57 times as “blue eyed” (in some variations, “green eyed”), and in The Odyssey a comparable number of times. Pindar referred to her as xanthus and glaukopis, meaning “blonde, blue-eyed.” Hesiod is content to call her “of green eyes” in his Theogony (15, 573, 587, 890 and 924), as well as Alcaeus and Simonides; while the Roman Ovid, in his Metamorphoses, which tells the perdition of Arachne, calls the goddess “manly and blond maiden.”

https://cienciologia.wordpress.com/cate ... blue-eyed/


So this reconstruction of the Greek Goddess is correct.

Image

The question is: Why did ancient Greeks picture their Gods with Nordic traits, if they looked like the Egyptian mummies?
#14726192
ArtAllm wrote:What do you mean with "Nordic-type"?
It seems that in your book anybody who does not look like these swarthy "Egyptians Greeks" are "Nordic-types".
It seems that you are fighting your own straw man.
No, I said that ancient Greeks looked like today Georgians from Svaneti region, and they do not look like Nordic people, they are neither blond, nor blue eyed. And yes, there is a lot of ancient literature, we can be sure that ancient Greeks pictured their gods like Nordic people.


Greeks looked exactly like they appear in their own paintings. Simples. Doesn't get any more simple than that actually. You are fighting your straw-men and calling these people mongrels because they do not match your archetypal Nordic variety while at the same time ridiculously contradicting yourself. Neither Greek people nor Greek gods looked like Nordic people ever. In fact Greek people clearly and explicitly distinguished themselves from Hyperboreans which is the name Greeks gave to Nordic people.

wiki wrote:These differentiations occurred following long-standing claims about the alleged differences between the Nordic and the Mediterranean people. Such debates arose from responses to ancient writers who had commented on differences between northern and southern Europeans. The Greek and Roman people considered the Germanic and Celtic peoples wild, red haired barbarians. Aristotle argued that the Greeks were an ideal people because they possessed a medium skin-tone, in contrast to pale northerners and dark southerners. By the nineteenth century, long-standing cultural and religious differences between Protestant northwestern Europe and the Roman Catholic south were being reinterpreted in racial terms.[11]




So what happened to the children with mixed blood? Were they killed?


Slaves, poor, labourers, not super-rich Greek citizens.

So do you really believe that the women with Caucasian facial traits, that was used as a model by the ancient artist, looked like your mummies from Egypt, and had dark skin?

Is it not obvious that there is a correlation between the facial traits and skin colour?


They look like typical Greek women who range from pale-white to dark-brown. For a guy who was not aware that swarthy Europeans exist, your theories sound quite ridiculous.

So this reconstruction of the Greek Goddess is correct.


Ofc not, this is a reconstruction by an artist for a statue that no longer exists. Athena is always portrayed with brown eyes:

Image

The question is: Why did ancient Greeks picture their Gods with Nordic traits, if they looked like the Egyptian mummies?


The real question is why do poor Nordicists following the Nazi tradition argue such non-sense. In fact while we are at it, let me go ahead and claim that Nordic people pictured their Gods as swarthy Meds, I knows it and besides the Nordics turned the Greco-Romans into their Gods anyway.
#14726274
noemon wrote:
Greeks looked exactly like they appear in their own paintings. Simples. Doesn't get any more simple than that actually.



Well, different paintings and sculptures show totally different (in anthropological sense) people, and you have to distinguish between different historical periods. The racial composition of ancient Greeks changed over centuries, and it seems that Greek elite and common people were of different ancestry.


noemon wrote: You are fighting your straw-men and calling these people mongrels because they do not match your archetypal Nordic variety....



The Egyptian mummies do not match the archetype of just an average white Caucasians, but the sculptures of Greek Gods even match the archetypes of Nordic people.
We have an obvious contradiction, and you know it.



noemon wrote:
Neither Greek people nor Greek gods looked like Nordic people ever.




As already many times repeated: ancient Greeks looked like white Caucasians, speak like the today Georgians or Basks, dark hair and eyes, but white skin and Caucasian sculls and facial traits.

But ancient Greeks pictures their Gods (in writings and painted sculptures) often with blue eyes and blond hair, which are Nordic traits, and you know it.


noemon wrote:The real question is why do poor Nordicists following the Nazi tradition....



You seem to be ignorant about the history of anthropology an race science, you desperately play the "Nazi-Card", hoping that your opponents will be scared by this pseudo-argument. In Germany we call this "Totschlagargument".

Are you going to invoke the Holocaust in your next posts?

But let us return to historical facts.

According to Greek mythology the Greek God Appolo was an Hyperborean, and Hyperborea was a sunny land.

And the Indian author Bal Gangadhar Tilak (he died before "them Nazis" got power in Germany), based on the Vedic hymns and Avestic passages, argued that the ancestors of Indo-Europeans lived in the North during the pre-glacial period and moved to the South in around 8000 B C.

According to your logic Homer, Plutarch, and even Tilak were "wicked Nazis", because they believed that their culture was installed by Nordic people and because they pictured their elites and Gods with nordic racial traits.

noemon wrote:... let me go ahead and claim that Nordic people pictured their Gods as swarthy Meds, I knows it and besides the Nordics turned the Greco-Romans into their Gods anyway.


Well, you have to support your claims with facts.

It is obvious that Nodic people pictured their Gods (even the oriental Jesus) like they themselves looked.

:D

So the question remains:

If ancient Greeks looked like these swarthy Egyptian mummies, why did they picture their Gods with nordic traits?

Did ancient Greeks really hate the way they were looking and idealized their Gods, attributing to them foreign racial traits?

Sorry, but this does not make any sense.
#14726292
a) Greek portraits match perfectly the archetype of Mediterranean people.
b) Your racist assumption that the archetypal and original Greek is some Nordic snowflake is based on nothing other than Nazi ideology, all the portraits contradict you and you invent non-sense to evade reality.
c) Ancient Greeks have been very clear that they are not Hyperboreans, neither themselves nor their Gods.

These differentiations occurred following long-standing claims about the alleged differences between the Nordic and the Mediterranean people. Such debates arose from responses to ancient writers who had commented on differences between northern and southern Europeans. The Greek and Roman people considered the Germanic and Celtic peoples wild, red haired barbarians. Aristotle argued that the Greeks were an ideal people because they possessed a medium skin-tone, in contrast to pale northerners and dark southerners. By the nineteenth century, long-standing cultural and religious differences between Protestant northwestern Europe and the Roman Catholic south were being reinterpreted in racial terms.[11]


According to Greek mythology the Greek God Appolo was an Hyperborean, and Hyperborea was a sunny land.


And Europe the Goddess was an Oriental Queen brought by Zeus from Asia. Europeans are clearly Semitic Asians therefore, according to your logic.

It is obvious that Nodic people pictured their Gods (even the oriental Jesus) like they themselves looked.


Mongrelisation ;) The Nordics pictured their Gods after they had already been mongrelised and turned white instead of brown that their original masters were. Same as yours, right back at you.

If the Nordics hate themselves so much, whey did they call themselves Romans for several centuries? Why did they paint their Gods as blonde when they were really swarthy Meds? According to you Romans had turned brown by the 1st BCE, recognising at the very least the fact that the Romans were in fact brown when they conquered the Germanic Tribes thus providing an archetypal Brown God & Master to you lot. Oh o! :lol:
#14726981
noemon wrote:a) Greek portraits match perfectly the archetype of Mediterranean people.


There is no archetype of "Mediterranean people", there are different people living in European and African parts of the Mediterranean sea.
I have already posted this map, but I will repeat myself:

Image

The Greek people do not have darker skin, than Spaniards. But in the south, speak African part of the Mediterranean sea live different people.

Here is how European Mediterranean people look:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race#/media/File:PSM_V51_D306_Brunette_mediterranean_type_index_76.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_race#/media/File:Mediterranean_race_Fischer_Lexikon.png

And here are the Egyptian mummies:

Image

Anybody who is not biased and does not have a leftist political agenda can see that this Egyptian has nothing to do with Europeans, even if he was culturally a Greek.

noemon wrote:b) Your racist assumption that the archetypal and original Greek is some Nordic snowflake is based on nothing other than Nazi ideology, all the portraits contradict you and you invent non-sense to evade reality.


The more you play the "wicked Nazi-Racist" card, the more it becomes obvious that you do not have any valid arguments. BTW, I have never said that Greeks were some "snowflake Nordic people", this is your straw-man, typical leftist demagogy.


noemon wrote:c) Ancient Greeks have been very clear that they are not Hyperboreans, neither themselves nor their Gods.


And here is the truth:

[url]Abaris the Hyperborean (Greek: Ἄβαρις Ὑπερβόρειος, Abaris Hyperboreios), son of Seuthes, was a legendary sage, healer, and priest of Apollo known to the Ancient Greeks. He was supposed to have learned his skills in his homeland of Hyperborea, near the Caucasus,[1]
...
A temple to Persephone at Sparta was attributed to Abaris by Pausanias (9.10).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaris_the_Hyperborean[/url]

And here are the restored true colours of Appollo-Statue:

Image


noemon wrote:And Europe the Goddess was an Oriental Queen brought by Zeus from Asia. Europeans are clearly Semitic Asians therefore, according to your logic.


How is this relevant?
And how did this oriental Queen look?



noemon wrote:Mongrelisation ;) The Nordics pictured their Gods after they had already been mongrelised and turned white instead of brown that their original masters were. Same as yours, right back at you.

If the Nordics hate themselves so much, whey did they call themselves Romans for several centuries?

Why did they paint their Gods as blonde when they were really swarthy Meds?


Do you really believe that this was a good argument?

:D

They pictured their Gods according to their own standard of beauty, speak they pictured them like they themselves looked, speak they did not suffer from an inferiority complex.

noemon wrote: According to you Romans had turned brown by the 1st BCE, recognising at the very least the fact that the Romans were in fact brown when they conquered the Germanic Tribes thus providing an archetypal Brown God & Master to you lot. Oh o! :lol:


That was another stupid and childish arguments.
Romans were not brown, look how Caligula ( Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus) looked:

https://mocochocodotcom.files.wordpress ... tues-6.jpg

He was a white Caucasian, he did not have blond hair and blue eyes, but he did not look like the Egyptian mummies you believe were typical Greeks, anybody who does not stick to the leftist political agenda can clearly see this.

BTW, I do not care how you personally look, who you are, an old black man or a young European girl, but you preferred to take as an avatar a picture of a young European girl.

Does this not contradict your political agenda in this forum :)?
#14726991
ArtAllm wrote:The Greek people do not have darker skin, than Spaniards. But in the south, speak African part of the Mediterranean sea live different people.
Image

Anybody with a leftist political agenda can see that this Egyptian has nothing to do with Europeans, even if he was culturally a Greek.


This person is a rich upper-class Greek person as the sources clearly state and he looks very much like modern Greeks and Meds.

The more you play the "wicked Nazi-Racist" card, the more it becomes obvious that you do not have any valid arguments. BTW, I have never said that Greeks were some "snowflake Nordic people", this is your straw-man, typical leftist demagogy.


You play the whining Nazi card because you don't have any other card to play, you brought it up, not me. The more you continue assuming that the proverbial Greek was a Nordic archetype, the more Nazi Nordicist you look. Simples.

You found a legendary Hyperborean among the Greeks and that supposedly proves your non-sense? :lol: There are legendary Asians, Indians and Egyptians in Greek mythology and Divine Lineage, Europa, Cadmus, Artemis. The fact is that Greeks separated themselves racially from Hyperboreans and Egyptians and Asians. Greeks were not Hyperboreans, they did not see themselves or their Gods as Hyperboreans.

They pictured their Gods according to their own standard of beauty, speak they pictured them like they themselves looked, speak they did not suffer from an inferiority complex.


Germans called themselves Romans for centuries, sounds like an inferiority complex to me.

That was another stupid and childish arguments.
Romans were not brown, look how Caligula ( Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus) looked


You said that by the 1st BCE Romans had been mongrelised into Brown people. That is before they conquered Germania, so by your logic Brown mongrelised Romans conquered you and became your Gods and Symbols.

As I said, Nordic Gods were Brown, it was after Slavic and Mongol people descended and turned the Nordics whiter that they started imagining everything as white snowflakes. Why? Because I knows it as much as you knows it. ;)

BTW, I do not care how you personally look, who you are, an old black man or a young European girl, but you preferred to take as an avatar a picture of a young European girl.
Does this not contradict your political agenda in this forum :)?


My avatar is a Brazilian supermodel, not European. And she is hot like me.
#14728601
noemon wrote:My avatar is a Brazilian supermodel, not European. And she is hot like me.


I am reluctant to repeat what I have already said, but why did you not chose this Brazilian girl for your avatar:

Image

:D
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