[Suntzu]

From the latest FBI report:

"◾In 2015, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 15,696. This was a 10.8 percent increase from the 2014 estimate, a 7.1 percent increase from the 2011 figure, but a 9.3 percent drop from the number in 2006.
◾There were 4.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2015. The murder rate in 2015 was up from the rates in 2014 (10.0 percent) and 2011 (3.8 percent). However, the murder rate fell 15.5 percent when compared with the 2006 rate.
◾Of the estimated number of murders in the United States, 45.9 percent were reported in the South, 21.5 percent were reported in the Midwest, 20.2 percent were reported in the West, and 12.4 percent were reported in the Northeast.

Of those murdered 7,038 were Black and 3,826 were White (non-Hispanic).

Of the interracial murders there were 500 Black on White murders and 130 White on Black murders.

[MistyTiger]

Do the numbers only include the actual murders or some in there are alleged murders?

I am not sure I believe the Black on White murder number. And the White on Black murder, is considerably lower though Whites are known for being very aggressive and violent toward others.

[One Degree]

Do the numbers only include the actual murders or some in there are alleged murders?

I am not sure I believe the Black on White murder number. And the White on Black murder, is considerably lower though Whites are known for being very aggressive and violent toward others.

In other words, you are unwilling to accept the facts that show the liberal media is misleading you.
These are consistent with every government report I have seen.

[MistyTiger]

Or maybe I just remember what I learned in Sociology and Law classes, that Blacks are charged of violent crimes more often than Whites. In some states, there is a blatant preference toward treating Whites better than Blacks, especially when it comes to crimes and violations.

I try to be open-minded and when I have time, I check out international news sources. I may be liberal but I do not believe everything I read.

[One Degree]

"MistyTiger"]Or maybe I just remember what I learned in Sociology and Law classes, that Blacks are charged of violent crimes more often than Whites. In some states, there is a blatant preference toward treating Whites better than Blacks, especially when it comes to crimes and violations.

You just named the two worst places to get an objective view of the world. Lawyers don't care about 'fair' and Sociologists are notoriously naively biased.

I try to be open-minded and when I have time, I check out international news sources. I may be liberal but I do not believe everything I read.

If you are open minded, then why do you want to reject the FBI facts that show your sociologists are misleading you? None of us are really open minded. It is a human condition that we attempt to overcome with processes such as the scientific method, but in the end we are still emotional animals pretending to be something we are not. We have attempted to create a world based upon materialism and objective laws, when they both are a contradiction to what we basically are. Our objectivity is still being decided by the strongest emotions.

[Suntzu]

The FBI's annual Universal Crime Statistics Report is very comprehensive, a mountain of data. It is broken out in every conceivable way, by victim, by perpertrator, by race, by sex, by age, by ethnicity.

One thing one must watch for is that "White" includes Hispanic. Hispanic is broken out separately in some of the tables. This give an artificially high murder rate for Whites unless you adjust for it.

Here is a link: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... ent/murder

[Stormsmith]

May I point out that there are lawyers who use the law as tools to attain their particular ends (usually found in courtrooms) but there are also people who have an interest in, or even a love of law as an end in itself. These lawyers arent acting as lawyers per se, but as researchers wirh a specialised skill set. I suspect Misty Tiger is likely reviewing the later.

As for sociologists, if they're just compiling statistics, there's not a lot of room for misrepresenting the data.

[One Degree]

May I point out that there are lawyers who use the law as tools to attain their particular ends (usually found in courtrooms) but there are also people who have an interest in, or even a love of law as an end in itself. These lawyers arent acting as lawyers per se, but as researchers wirh a specialised skill set. I suspect Misty Tiger is likely reviewing the later.

As for sociologists, if they're just compiling statistics, there's not a lot of room for misrepresenting the data.

How many conservatives do you think have a desire to study sociology? It is a liberal forum and therefore is biased by it's makeup. The statistics are used to show what they want. I have no idea what lawyers Misty Tiger is listening to. I knew one really super intelligent lawyer of extremely high moral character. He disappeared, abandoning job and family, and reappeared several years later as a cowboy in Wyoming. Law and morality are usually at opposite ends and will drive you crazy trying to make them compatible.

[Suntzu]

Seems this pattern is not limited to the U.S.

London

"Figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that in 2007 an estimated 10.6 percent of London's population of 7,556,900 were black. Evidence shows that the black population in London boroughs increases with the level of deprivation, and that the level of crime also increases with deprivation, such that "It is clear that ethnicity, deprivation, victimisation and offending are closely and intricately inter-related".

In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service. The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent. Robbery, drug use, and gang violence have been associated with black people since the 1960s. In the 1980s and 1990s, the police associated robbery with black people. In 1995, the Metropolitan Police commissioner Paul Condon said that the majority of robberies in London were committed by black people."

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, there is a lot of racism when it comes to charging people with violent crimes.

[Suntzu]

Yes, there is a lot of racism when it comes to charging people with violent crimes.

Obvious it is the White man's fault likely caused by Jim Crow and vestiges of slavery.

[Pants-of-dog]

Obvious it is the White man's fault likely caused by Jim Crow and vestiges of slavery.

Did anyone claim that?

[MistyTiger]

Stormsmith, good points.

OneDegree, I am not listening to any lawyers. They do case studies and they look at research findings as well. I was Pre-Law in college many years ago. I read case studies and some of the stats and observed the trends.

If you do not believe research or the media, who do you believe?

Sent from my Nexus 10 using PoFo mobile app

[One Degree]

If you do not believe research or the media, who do you believe?

I believe in holding the media and research up to very strict scrutiny based upon life experience. I believe comparing the two will get you closer to the truth. If what their 'facts' show are in direct opposition to what I have observed then I will not dismiss it entirely, but I will be extremely skeptical.

[MistyTiger]

But one's personal experience cannot hold true for things as vast as population or a country's crime statistics. Personal experience works well with things like, working hard to advance up the corporate ladder or understanding that the best way not to be cheated by auto shops is to do one's own car repairs at home.

[Stormsmith]

How many conservatives do you think have a desire to study sociology?

Any number of Tories who needed a BA and a high grade point average. Future lawyers, etc.

It is a liberal forum and therefore is biased by it's makeup. The statistics are used to show what they want.

If a study was to be done by a sociologist with a predetermined goal in mind, the sociologist would be shredded by his/her peers in the never ending game of academic one upmanship

If the writer was preparing a statistical analysis of the incident of, say, police killing civilians, the flaw would likely be in the source material because the police rarely keep such records.

Youre more likely to find the sort of errant analysis you're suggesting occurs if the author is a corporate employee, and less likely if the writer is an academic

I knew one really super intelligent lawyer of extremely high moral character. He disappeared, abandoning job and family, and reappeared several years later as a cowboy in Wyoming. Law and morality are usually at opposite ends and will drive you crazy trying to make them compatible.

An "n" of one is unreliable.



Misty Tiger
My point re the "n" of one thingee.

[One Degree]

Any number of Tories who needed a BA and a high grade point average. Future lawyers, etc.

So you agree conservatives do not actually enter the sociology field.

If a study was to be done by a sociologist with a predetermined goal in mind, the sociologist would be shredded by his/her peers in the never ending game of academic one upmanship

Nonsense, you are only shredded by your peers when you go against the accepted ideology.

If the writer was preparing a statistical analysis of the incident of, say, police killing civilians, the flaw would likely be in the source material because the police rarely keep such records.

Liberal lie. The records are easily obtainable and most local news media keep current and readily accessible records. Simply google crime by city and you will find maps, locations, names, pictures, and listings by race.

Youre more likely to find the sort of errant analysis you're suggesting occurs if the author is a corporate employee, and less likely if the writer is an academic

Academics do not challenge the norm unless they want to be ostracized and willing to defend their views against a hostile establishment. This is especially true in Sociology.

An "n" of one is unreliable.

Yes, but inserting some real life experience goes a long way in showing how idealism distorts reality.

[Pants-of-dog]

Insulting sociologists is not an argument.

[One Degree]

Insulting sociologists is not an argument.

Denying reality is not an argument.

[Pants-of-dog]

Denying reality is not an argument.

Good thing I did not.

When I was young, sociologists had to fear for their lives, and some even became armed rebels against the dictatorship. Obviously, the right wing dictator feared sociologists, and I doibt it was because of the fanciful beliefs you have about them.