Its time to talk about the New Jersey virus - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15123404
I deliberately put this in the science section not the American section because this is something all people across the world should be looking at. In trying to learn about Covid-19, we must make comparisons, although those comparisons can never be perfect. But it makes far, far more sense to compare American states to each other than does it to compare countries. As to comparing the figures from fascist dictatorships like China and Vietnam with the figures given out by Liberal Democracies, well its just fundamentally dishonest. It also makes sense to study United States States as opposed to say the States of Indian or the regions of Brazil or Russia. No data is perfect. No data unbiased. No data is uncorrupted, but the figures for the different US states are the best we are going to get.

So within the United States the first State that is begging to be talked about is New Jersey. When it comes to achieving Covid death figures New Jersey has owned the rest of the United States. If New Jersey were an independent country it would have the highest date rate in the world. If all of the US States became independent then New Jersey would be first, New York second, Massachusetts third with tiny San Marino fourth.

It looks like to all intents and purposes this competition is over. It doesn't look to me like any State now is going to be able challenge New Jersey's position as the Covid King of America. New York its closest competition is actually falling further behind on the death rate not catching up.

The funny thing is in a way Lockdown liberals should be trumpeting New Jersey from the roof tops. the New jersey death rate is approaching 0.2%, that's not the Black Death, its not the 1918 flu, but its not nothing. At least on the surface this would suggest that at least in some places the Covid -19 intrusion was a significant and serious health event. How much was the virus and how much was the measures taken to combat the virus? What factors caused this in New jersey? Why New Jersey, why not any of the other 49 States or DC? Why are deaths in New jersey now so low? There are many many, questions we can ask.

Anyway I won't say more in this OP, and hopefully we can start a discussion about these vital and valuable data points.
#15124351
Godstud wrote:Covid-19 in the USA has nothing to do with China, @Igor Antunov> It mostly has to do with shit leadership from Dumbass Trump.

You see I would never be so stupid as to try and blame all the of the New Jersey deaths attributed to Covid on the Democratic leadership. I would like the anti Trumpers to explain how Trump could have even prevented the majority of the deaths in New Jersey let alone all of them. New Jersey is the second wealthiest State in the Union. The Democrats control the State and the counties which were hardest hit. Why on earth couldn't New Jersey's liberal leadership stop this, but supposedly it was magically in the power of Donald Trump who didn't even have a Republican majority in the House to stop it?
#15124354
Rich wrote:You see I would never be so stupid as to try and blame all the of the New Jersey deaths attributed to Covid on the Democratic leadership. I would like the anti Trumpers to explain how Trump could have even prevented the majority of the deaths in New Jersey let alone all of them. New Jersey is the second wealthiest State in the Union. The Democrats control the State and the counties which were hardest hit. Why on earth couldn't New Jersey's liberal leadership stop this, but supposedly it was magically in the power of Donald Trump who didn't even have a Republican majority in the House to stop it?

Blaming Trump for every Covid-19 death in the USA is nonsensical. Political leaders just don't have that level of control over their societies. Could Trump have done more to curb the spread of the virus and thereby lessened the number of deaths? Very likely, yes. But that could be said of every world leader, and it could be said of the local political leadership of the American states too. Besides, we cannot know these things for certain, even with hindsight.
#15124370
No one said that Trump is responsible for all the covid-19 deaths in the USA, but he surely could have prevented a lot of needless deaths if he reacted quickly and decisively, trusting in his professionals for advice and guidance. He did none of those things and downplayed the virus and went even so far as to suggest alternative treatments based on his own stupidity.
#15124419
New Jersey is an interesting case, because it reveals some interesting patterns and social dynamics that led to such high death rate in a supposedly developed country.

And while I think Trump bungled this whole thing, the numbers for NJ would not have been radically different if, for example, Obama would have been in charge. The significant factors were all out of the hands of any one person.

To me, it seems like a perfect storm of population density, poverty, chronic lack of access to health services for a significant part of the population, multigenerational family homes, and needing to use the subway to get to work.

I am interested to see how Covid affects urban transport design in the future.
#15124461
@Pants-of-dog Now the above seems like a good faith attempt at an analysis. It does seem to me that climate / season have played a significant part in this. Nearly all the worst hit places seem to be in similar latitudes. And the lack of health care at the very least sounds plausible as a significant factor.

Politics always involves choices and priorities, the left, and I'm talking about the whole left here, had a choice of priorities, they could leverage this crisis to get rid of Donald Trump or they could seek to leverage it to move towards public health care. Biden's pitch is essentially that public health care must be dropped for the next 4 years in order to get rid of Donald Trump.
#15126436
New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts. These are the top three states for Xi virus's deaths proportionate to population. They are all Democrat run Liberal run rich states. The areas within these States that are seeing the high death rate are even more tightly controlled by Liberals. What possible reason could these lying dishonest Liberal hypocrites have for trying to blame this on Trump.

Lets drill down a bit further to Essex County New Jersey. As the Russian peasants used to say, God is high above and Trump is far away. Essex county had over 2000 deaths. It has a per capita personal income of over sixty thousand dollars. Why in God's name did they need Trump to wave some magic wand for them?
#15126888
So New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts if independent countries would have the worst death rates from the Xi virus in the world. Its interesting to compare this with the three territories in the world that have been most successful in containing the death rate. These are the Faeroe Islands, Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands. I would suggest that the control and restriction of immigration are the key to success of all three. Gibraltar is particularly notable. Gibraltar has avoided the mass Muslim invasion, that Spain has suffered from in recent decades. Gibraltar has completely avoided the terrible price paid by Italy and Spain.

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