[Zionist Nationalist]

Like it or not guys but we have a limit to everything on this planet except solar energy

coal/gold/oil/metal are things that one day will be depleted

there is a resource limit on this planet we cant have maintain a population of 10b+ people without an eventual collapse

[hartmut]

@Victoribus Spolia
... My goal is the advancement of the species. This requires limited numbers.
....

Do you think, that you are within of those "limited numbers" worth to survive?
And if you should have that attitude, why do do you think, that it could be you to create "the advancement of the species"?

[Truth To Power]

We could support 20 billion on this planet with relative ease if we managed our resources appropriately.

CURRENT technology could support a global human population in the trillions. What's missing is an institutional framework that would make that possible.

Population is irrelevant to the actual problems facing mankind RIGHT NOW.

Right. There is not now, nor has there ever been, a problem of human overpopulation. There are problems of under-justice, under-honesty, under-liberty, under-intelligence, under-honesty, under-wisdom, under-courage, under-diligence and under-honesty, but no problem of overpopulation.

I dunno, maybe because none of those things have anything to do with population. Why don't we kill everyone, that will eliminate all crime and pollution altogether.

Those who rail about overpopulation are just trying to divert attention from the actual problems, listed above.

All of this crap is an irrelevant appeal to sentiment.

Right.

I believe mankind is special and therefore that all pregnancy prevention is murder.

At least you don't appeal to faith...

[Truth To Power]

Like it or not guys but we have a limit to everything on this planet except solar energy

There is definitely a limit to solar energy. It's just a very distant limit.

coal/gold/oil/metal are things that one day will be depleted

Coal and oil, yes; gold and metal, no. Almost all the gold that has ever been mined is still available to be used.

there is a resource limit on this planet we cant have maintain a population of 10b+ people without an eventual collapse

That claim has no factual basis.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Coal and oil, yes; gold and metal, no. Almost all the gold that has ever been mined is still available to be used.

Yes there is a limit even for metal and gold because its something that takes millions of years to be formed and there is a limit on how much you can recycle because every time you recycle you lose some matter

That claim has no factual basis.

this does have an actual basis its a mathematic calculation on how many people use x amount of resources and how much x amount of resources we can create and how many we have left of that resource before its depleted

[anasawad]

@Zionist Nationalist
hmmmmm. space ?

[Zionist Nationalist]

We still havent found a way to go to mars and getting back to earth
We can theoretically send people there but only on one way ticket

[anasawad]

We could do the easiest non-fantasy solution with the technology available right now, which is send specialized drones and satellites to other planets and asteroids to extract resources and with a device to beam it back to earth.
We already have the technology to do the beaming stuff, its the same one in hadron colliders, currently its expensive but when the need comes, it'll become much cheaper due to increased production.
We could build special satellites for the task and send several to create a network orbiting around various planets, moons, or even the sun it self.

All it takes is for all the idiots to stop planning for a mars colony and start planning for a mars automated mining platform.

[Sivad]

extract resources and with a device to beam it back to earth.
We already have the technology to do the beaming stuff, its the same one in hadron colliders, currently its expensive but when the need comes, it'll become much cheaper due to increased production.
We could build special satellites for the task and send several to create a network orbiting around various planets, moons, or even the sun it self.

Are you talking about teleportation?

[anasawad]

@Sivad
Nope, accelerating raw materials to significant fractions of the speed of light and ejecting them into a certain direction.
Just like in hadron colliders, simply on a much larger scale.
That direction will ofcourse be towards another satellite which in turn would do the same, until it reaches one near earth where we can pick it up in more ease.

[Suntzu]

Unfortunately, the population of intelligent folks tends to be shrinking while the population of stupid folks is increasing at an alarming rate.

[Sivad]

@Sivad
Nope, accelerating raw materials to significant fractions of the speed of light and ejecting them into a certain direction.
Just like in hadron colliders, simply on a much larger scale.
That direction will ofcourse be towards another satellite which in turn would do the same, until it reaches one near earth where we can pick it up in more ease.

ok, you're talking about directed energy propulsion. you should check out Isaac Arthur on youtube.

[anasawad]

ok, you're talking about directed energy propulsion. you should check out Isaac Arthur on youtube.

Nope. Well, ok, similar.
Particle beam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam

The technology needs development, but it'll be there soon enough.

[Sivad]

Nope. Well, ok, similar.
Particle beam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam

The technology needs development, but it'll be there soon enough.

do you have a link to any info on the technology?

[anasawad]

@Sivad
Well, to be honest with you 'm too lazy to actually do the full research on it right now as 'm picking it up from the top of my head, but I tried particle beam applications search on google and it shows many promising results, so you can start there.

[Rancid]

We're all gonna die anyway.

[Sivad]

We're all gonna die anyway.

That depends on your view of personal identity, on empty individualism there's really no stable, persistent identity to die, and on open individualism there's only different permutations of the same global identity. So dissolve your ego and live forever, or at least as long as conscious life persists in the universe. And maybe even beyond that because a lot of physicists say that it's theoretically possible for information to exit this universe and enter another. Even cosmic heat death might not be the end of the story.

[Truth To Power]

Yes there is a limit even for metal and gold because its something that takes millions of years to be formed and there is a limit on how much you can recycle because every time you recycle you lose some matter

Wrong. You are assuming that new production from ore can't exceed recycling losses indefinitely. But it can. You just have to use worse and worse ore, exactly as we have been doing for thousands of years, and recycle more and more efficiently.

this does have an actual basis its a mathematic calculation on how many people use x amount of resources

I.e., it incorrectly assumes per capita resource use can't be reduced by recycling or more efficient production methods. What would the calculation show based on ASSUMING people would continue to heat their homes with trees and light them with whales, hmmmm?

and how much x amount of resources we can create and how many we have left of that resource before its depleted

Which I've shown is also wrong. Reserve calculations are based on CURRENT extraction technology and prices. Improve the technology and/or increase the price, and reserves get larger.

Assumptions (false ones). Not facts.

Unfortunately, the population of intelligent folks tends to be shrinking while the population of stupid folks is increasing at an alarming rate.

The Flynn Effect says otherwise. And soon we won't need as many intelligent people, because SAI will be intelligent for us. Is it a problem that people are not as strong as they used to be when they had to chase down game to eat, carry everything they owned on their backs, or pull plows by hand?

We could do the easiest non-fantasy solution with the technology available right now, which is send specialized drones and satellites to other planets and asteroids to extract resources and with a device to beam it back to earth.

That would be fantastically costly in energy. Far cheaper to just change its orbit to head back and be intercepted. The chaotic nature of the solar system implies that if you have good enough information, are patient enough, and can calculate accurately enough, you can move almost any object smaller than a planet anywhere in the solar system at arbitrarily low cost. The beaming system would only make sense if you needed the stuff instantly.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Another great post@Truth To Power.

You make good points on recycling metals etc., but what is your opinion on peak oil?

Isn't that a theoretical possibility? It doesn't seem oil is as suited to "recycling technologies" for sustained energy production due to the energy input required and that once oil is consumed as fuel, it can't be recycled at all.

whats you opinion on that? Just curious.

[Truth To Power]

Another great post@Truth To Power.

<blush>

You make good points on recycling metals etc., but what is your opinion on peak oil?

Similar to my opinion on peak whales. Oil production will peak someday, probably fairly soon, but by then it won't matter much. Burning petroleum for its energy content makes as little sense as burning whales for their energy content. It's far more useful as a chemical feedstock, for lubricants, etc.

whats you opinion on that? Just curious.

The solar energy received by the earth's surface in one day is greater than all the energy humanity has ever obtained from petroleum, or ever will. Solar is getting cheaper, and will continue to do so. Oil is getting costlier, and will continue to do so. Someday quite soon those price trends will cross, and oil will no longer be useful as an energy source except for aviation, at high latitudes, etc.