Are Covid-19 vaccines safe? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15144565
blackjack21 wrote:Maybe they are trying it out on blacks and Hispanics as guinea pigs. It wouldn't be the first time people obsessed with race would do something like this.


The Johns Hopkins, CDC Plan to Mask Medical Experimentation on Minorities as “Racial Justice”
Under the guise of combatting “structural racism,” the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security has laid out a strategy for ethnic minorities and the mentally challenged to be vaccinated first, all “as a matter of justice.” However, other claims made by the Center contradict these social justice talking points and point to other motives entirely.
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/11/in ... l-justice/


Palantir’s Tiberius, Race, and the Public Health Panopticon
The controversial data mining firm, whose history and rise has long been inextricably linked with the CIA and the national security state, will now use its software to identify and prioritize the same minority groups that it has long oppressed on behalf of the US military and US intelligence.
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/12/in ... anopticon/
#15144600
The history of the Covid-19 response in the West is a long list of failures due to complacency. People who claim that the vaccine will all of a sudden solve the problem are just as irresponsible today as those who claimed that "it's just a flu" in the Spring. Masks, Covid restrictions and/or lockdowns are still necessary, albeit harder to impose.

Since January 20th I have consistently warned against that complacency, and I will continue to do so even if some in this threat are trying to derail the discussion by a campaign of lies, insults and mobbing.

Among experts, it is well accepted that it'll take until the summer or autumn for enough people to get vaccinated for the pandemic to subside. Overconfidence in the virus will lead people to abandon Covid restrictions, which could lead to another exponential growth. In many countries, the virus is now so widespread that only a hard lockdown can stop it.

We have seen several mutations recently. Due to the wide spread of the virus, the likelihood of new mutations, which may be more infectious, more deadly, etc., is increasing every day.

Beware the danger of ‘vaccine euphoria’

The advent of Covid-19 vaccines is a medical miracle, yet also a tantalizing and dangerous psychological milestone: It’s not the beginning of the end of the pandemic but, more likely, “the end of the beginning,” to borrow a phrase from Winston Churchill.

The first day of distribution of vaccine in the United States illustrated the point. California accepted its initial delivery of 33,150 doses, just as it was beginning to average more than that number of new coronavirus cases every day.

Such realities, though grim, have been easy to overlook. Exuberant headlines about vaccines — Now two! Millions more doses! — have grabbed attention, as have rightfully joyous social media photos of health care workers receiving their inoculations.

We get so kind of blinded by vaccine euphoria — the light at the end of the tunnel — that we underestimate how long that tunnel is, and how dangerous that tunnel is,” said Peter Sands, executive director of the Swiss-based Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, which has expanded its mission to combat Covid.

For most of the countries the fund invests in, Sands added at a recent health summit hosted by the Milken Institute, “vaccines are not going to be available at scale” until “late ’21 at the earliest, and a lot of lives are going to be lost in that time in between.”

So hand-washing, mask-wearing, social distancing — and, experts warn, a healthy new dose of cognitive dissonance — will continue to be the daily reality for most of us for months to come.

The question is whether Americans will get too caught up in the enthusiasm over what they perceive to be elixirs nearly at hand. Perhaps, they might wonder, can’t they let their guard down, just a little?

William Hallman, a psychologist at Rutgers University and an expert in the study of the perception of risk, noted that the statistical risk of any given activity matters far less than “what you think the risk is.” So “from a risk perception standpoint,” he said, “there is a potential danger that people will now get vaccinated and think they are super-human and nothing can touch them, which is certainly not true.”

Not only do the vaccines not prevent 100% of infections, it’s still unclear whether they prevent infection and transmission of the virus that causes the disease, leaving the unvaccinated vulnerable. Health workers who are vaccinated will most likely follow public health guidance to continue wearing masks in public, but what of the rest of us?

Hallman, who chairs the Department of Human Ecology at Rutgers, said that one of his frustrations, as a psychologist, is that the national messaging about the pandemic has been led most vocally (and perhaps understandably) by physicians and epidemiologists “and their focus is on the germ and what to do about it.” By contrast, he said, there have been “very few social scientists, behavioral scientists in helping the government determine how to change people’s behaviors.”

As a result, he fully expects more public conflicts to play out, sooner or later.

If I get vaccinated and I decide I don’t need to wear a mask anymore and can go to the grocery store, what’s the proper response from the grocery store manager?

Hallman said his proposed message to public officials would be brutally clear: “This is what we know, this is how we know it. There are still some things we don’t know. Here’s what’s important. Here’s what we’re going to become a lot more certain about. Here’s what we think you should do now.”

There is also the matter of just how long it’s going to take to distribute enough vaccine for all those who want it. Many potential impediments remain in getting the vaccine from pharmaceutical laboratories and warehouses into the biceps of Americans, starting with the challenges of mass production.

“There’s an old saying: ‘The hardest part of making vaccines is making vaccines,’” said Paul Offit, a professor of pediatrics at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and a member of the Food and Drug Administration’s vaccine advisory committee. He noted the storage and shipment requirements for the only vaccines authorized so far are cumbersome, particularly for the vaccine developed by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech. That could make distribution more difficult, even as supply expands. Both require two doses for full effect — itself a logistical and messaging challenge in getting those vaccinated to complete the full course.

“And there will be spurious safety questions,” Offit added. “‘My grandmother got the vaccine and two days later she had a stroke or a heart attack,’ so the virus causes strokes or heart attacks. You’re going to be dealing with all of that. And with all of the misinformation put out there by the anti-vaccine movement, because you can appeal, apparently, to people’s sense of conspiracy, that there are microchips in the vaccine, that the vaccine causes Covid. And no vaccine is 100 percent effective, so some people inoculated will still get Covid.”

Samantha Penta, an assistant professor of emergency preparedness at SUNY Albany, noted that there is also always some segment of the population unable to tolerate vaccines, because of allergies or because they are immuno-compromised. Taken together, such caveats guarantee that “just because a vaccine is out doesn’t mean that a sufficient proportion of the country is protected to mean that the virus is not still spreading.”

So far, any serious side effects of inoculations have been comparatively isolated and easily managed, but the vaccines have yet to be tested on children or those who are pregnant or lactating, for example.

Penta said that “it’s really important for people to keep in mind that while the vaccine is a great step and great progress toward a future in which we don’t have to worry about Covid-19, it’s really hundreds or thousands of little steps that are going to take a long time. Much of the next few months, for a lot of people, are going to look and feel very similar to the last few months.”

Robert Marshall, a cardiologist in Washington, D.C., said health care workers remain exquisitely sensitive about “maintaining vigilance and not letting their guard down at this point,” and that doctors and the public alike should use the vaccine “as motivation to go strong and beat Covid fatigue.”

As interventional cardiologists,” he warned, “we have to continue to assume every patient is potentially infectious, regardless of whether they have symptoms. This is especially true with heart attack victims, given it is a known consequence of Covid. Many of these patients need an immediate procedure and there is no time for the PCR test and in most cases not even a rapid test to be back in time before rushing off to the cardiac catheterization lab. We therefore don the full protective gear, not only to protect ourselves, but for those we may come in contact with, who may be more vulnerable. We will not change this approach any time soon, and the same case should be made to the public.”

For his part, Offit said he would never have predicted that vaccines could be developed so quickly, “which explains all the emails I got after I said it wouldn’t be ready nearly this soon.”

As a vaccine expert, he said, “I can’t wait to get it.” And as an infectious diseases specialist, he does “round on inpatients, some of whom are in the Covid ward.” As such, he wasn’t a first-tier worker, but imagines he’ll be getting a vaccine next week — just after Christmas.
#15144604
I know I will still be wearing masks and keeping up my collection for awhile.

The current problem I see in the workplace is the matter of making the vaccine mandatory or letting people choose. But if only 1/3 of the office gets vaccinated, what about the moronic 2/3? Should the 2/3 be able to run free and get anyone sick? Those unvaccinated folks are a liability, they are a danger to everyone in the workplace and in the community. So I support mandatory vaccinations in any workplace. Universities and colleges are requiring the vaccine. The focus is on general safety and health. We don't want people dropping dead left and right because a "few" citizens were afraid of a needle prick in their arm.

Yesterday I found out that someone in manufacturing first shift tested positive on Sunday. I don't know who it is. I am a bit concerned I was exposed to their germs because the building isn't very well ventilated. But as long as I don't show symptoms after 7 days, then I will let the matter rest. That person chose to mingle or not be that careful while they were off duty. I still have to be vigilant and avoid people as much as possible.
#15144608
Just had the Moderna vaccine early this morning. I must say I feel fine, nobody is controlling my mind via any chips or anything. I still love trump like I have always done, I still think lizzard people are trying to steal the goverment and that the 2020 election was stolen by a pedophile democrat paid by soros in a deepstate attempt of coup. :lol:
#15144615
@XogGyux It sounds like your vaccine worked. You're just a typical American, now. ;)
#15144629
MistyTiger wrote:I know I will still be wearing masks and keeping up my collection for awhile.

The current problem I see in the workplace is the matter of making the vaccine mandatory or letting people choose. But if only 1/3 of the office gets vaccinated, what about the moronic 2/3? Should the 2/3 be able to run free and get anyone sick? Those unvaccinated folks are a liability, they are a danger to everyone in the workplace and in the community. So I support mandatory vaccinations in any workplace. Universities and colleges are requiring the vaccine. The focus is on general safety and health. We don't want people dropping dead left and right because a "few" citizens were afraid of a needle prick in their arm.


This is how the little people really think, they're scared and confused and they don't understand the world but they want to feel safe so of course the corporations and the billionaires and the technocrats are our wise and trustworthy benefactors that are only trying to provide for our security and keep us all healthy. They would never hurt us or lie to us, they only want what's best for us and anyone who threatens that illusion with doubts or noncompliance is a dangerous moron that needs to be forced into submission.

Sheep feel the same way about the shepherd, the shepherd is only there to protect them and provide for them and to lead them to safe pasture. The shepherd is their friend and protector, they're not his domesticated livestock that he sheers and milks and slaughters for food, the shepherd doesn't see them as mindless animals to be butchered for mutton, the shepherd cares deeply for them, they're his flock and they can trust the good shepherd to always take care of them and shelter them from all the dangers of the big scary world.
#15144647
I see Sivad is off his medicine again.

I'm Glad you got your vaccination Dr. X. It must be a great relief to know that after a couple of weeks, every trip to work might no longer be deadly.

We haven't been scheduled yet because the inpatient folks are, quite correctly, first.
#15144655
Drlee wrote:I see Sivad is off his medicine again.

I'm Glad you got your vaccination Dr. X. It must be a great relief to know that after a couple of weeks, every trip to work might no longer be deadly.

We haven't been scheduled yet because the inpatient folks are, quite correctly, first.


@Drlee ,

First I want to address the issue not of people directly, certain specific people who are on PoFo, but of anti-vaxxers in general. Most of these people (aside from those who have a sectarian objection) are people of an extreme Libertarian/Sovereign Citizen/Anarchist persuasion and are very paranoid about the State, about Government and Big Business. Again, to an extreme degree. The idea that most people (who mind you have dedicated their lives to public service of some kind) are evil and corrupt because of the power they can wield over others, says more I think about their accusers than anyone else. People aren't perfect, some are evil and corrupt, some abuse power...

But to think that they, most of these politicians and technocrats and healthcare providers-who all have families and friends themselves-somehow don't want this pandemic threat to end and for life to not ever return to normal and not an permanent emergency-is a bit mad.

Some have gained more power. Some have made more money in this crisis, but some have also lost money and lost power. Nobody really likes living like this in this emergency situation, I don't think, even the worst of us.

To be a Physician is a high calling. And to despise their authority automatically is wrong.


To quote Scripture, Book of Sirach chapter 38:1-8;

" Honor the physician with the honor due him, according to your need of him,
for the Lord created him; for healing comes from the Most High, and he will receive a gift from the king.The skill of the physician lifts up his head, and in the presence of great men he is admired.
The Lord created medicines from the earth, and a sensible man will not despise them.
Was not water made sweet with a tree in order that his power might be known?
And he gave skill to men that he might be glorified in his marvelous works.
By them he heals and takes away pain; the pharmacist makes of them a compound.
His works will never be finished; and from him health is upon the face of the earth."
#15144782
Drlee wrote:I see Sivad is off his medicine again.

I'm Glad you got your vaccination Dr. X. It must be a great relief to know that after a couple of weeks, every trip to work might no longer be deadly.

We haven't been scheduled yet because the inpatient folks are, quite correctly, first.


Well said. This pandemic is making people more unbalanced than ever.

I hope you get your vaccine very soon.

I know someone working as a fireman. He thinks he might get vaccinated in January.
#15144873
Rancid wrote:1.1 Million doses have been given.

That's 550k vaccinations which is less than 0.6% of US population.
#15144878
JohnRawls wrote:That's 550k vaccinations which is less than 0.6% of US population.


Indeed, but that's a wonderful start. I believe it took the UK like a week to get 200k doses out. Those dose numbers are monotonic as well, so we can only go up. :) 8)
#15144879
JohnRawls wrote:That's 550k vaccinations which is less than 0.6% of US population.
Just shows how important it is to choose the right people to vaccinate.

Those who can't easily avoid community contact or those that can.

Do you offer a lower level of protection to a large group or a high level of protection to a small group.

I think it's right to question this, despite some thinking the answer and the decision made is obvious.

It's going to be months before all those at risk have been vaccinated.
#15144951
The British Oxford vaccine produced by AstraZeneca (AZ) has been hailed by the media as the front runner for a Covid-19 vaccine since early summer. More doses of the AZ vaccine have been sold than of any other vaccine. Due to problems with the trials, dosage, and contradictory communication, the AZ vaccine has now fallen back. There are also questions about its efficacy.

This shows that even academia is not immune to vaccine nationalism.

How a British COVID-19 vaccine went from pole position to troubled start

“I don’t want to take away from the fact everybody has worked very hard and (the vaccine) is fundamentally safe and sound,” he said. “But reporting has always had a slightly nationalistic tone, which I don’t think has been helpful.”


Release of the phase 3 results for the Chinese Sinovac vaccine has been delayed by 2 weeks because there seem to be contradictory figures from Turkey, Brazil and Indonesia, where the vaccine has been tested. While Brazil announced that the efficacy is more than 50%, Turkey claimed it to be 91%.

Chinese vaccine test results delayed

Turkey says China's Sinovac COVID vaccine 91.25% effective in late trials
#15144956
JohnRawls wrote:That's 550k vaccinations which is less than 0.6% of US population.


We must keep up the momentum!

I cannot wait for my parents to get vaccinated! I want them to feel less scared and so I won't feel as anxious for their well-being. I know my father in particular has been worrying a lot and sleeping poorly.

I hope no one at work went travelling for the holiday and if they do...they should let HR know. I have been feeling unsafe at work lately.
#15144980
XogGyux wrote:
Not quite, but now my elbows glow in the dark, and can read from left to right. I think I am getting super powers.


Did the vaccine turn you gay? I heard the vaccine is a secret homosexual plot.
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