[Robert Urbanek]

The 220 million gas-powered SUVs on U.S. roads equal the total combined carbon emissions of Britain and Germany and constitute the sixth highest air pollution source globally. Purchases of SUVs in the United States soared from 2o percent of all vehicles in 2012 to 46 percent in 2022, according to the International Energy Agency, as reported in the March 5 issue of the San Francisco Chronicle.

But you won’t find anyone in the Biden administration urging people to pick more fuel-efficient sedans over SUVs, or encouraging people to buy smaller vehicles, or urging people to drive less. All they talk about is electric car infrastructure, even though internal combustion engines will be with us for many years to come.

[Pants-of-dog]

If I were an evil Marxist, I would argue that this is a gambit to maintain the car industry at maximum profit. First everyone buys an internal combustion engine, then they pay for infrastructure through tax dollars for the electric cars, then they buy the electric cars.

Electric cars are about saving the car industry, not the planet.

[Steve_American]

If I were an evil Marxist, I would argue that this is a gambit to maintain the car industry at maximum profit. First everyone buys an internal combustion engine, then they pay for infrastructure through tax dollars for the electric cars, then they buy the electric cars.

Electric cars are about saving the car industry, not the planet.

Actually, when seen through the lens of MMT, one can see that taxpayers never pay for anything. Tax dollars are destroyed when paid to the Gov. because they were IOUs in the 1st place. Dollars are IOUs that the Gov. uses to buy stuff and labor in the market, that are used to pay your taxes. And all IOUs are destroyed when paid off, because the issuer has no need for more IOUs that it issues.

Because the only limit on Gov. spending is the available labor and real basic resources in the economy (which will result in inflation if that limit is exceeded), it follows that spending on infrastructure for EVs just means the Gov. can't be spending on something else. What else is very hard to know, without knowing what the priorties in Congress are. That is, what on the list of "good things to spend on" was next in line when the spending reached the limit.

.

[XogGyux]

If I were an evil Marxist, I would argue that this is a gambit to maintain the car industry at maximum profit. First everyone buys an internal combustion engine, then they pay for infrastructure through tax dollars for the electric cars, then they buy the electric cars.

Electric cars are about saving the car industry, not the planet.

How so lol? Not as if the car industry had any trouble selling cars before electrics or even now.
In fact, the car industry has to re-tool and invest in order to put out electric vehicles. I don't think this is necessarily to their benefit at all.

[Pants-of-dog]

How so lol? Not as if the car industry had any trouble selling cars before electrics or even now.
In fact, the car industry has to re-tool and invest in order to put out electric vehicles. I don't think this is necessarily to their benefit at all.

There is something called anthropogenic global warming.

To deal with this, we are slowly using less fossil fuels.

Internal combustion engine cars run on fossil fuels.

This means that we are slowly moving away from using internal combustion engine cars.

This is bad for the car industry unless we all buy electric cars from car companies.

As for the extra cost of retooling, note that the US governments have subsidized electric car manufacturers with billions of taxpayer dollars.

[wat0n]

But why isn't that move to electric cars about the environment? I think that's @XogGyux's point. If nobody cared about the environment, no one would be trying to switch to using electric cars.

If the industry is not switching on its own initiative it's because internal combustion is still more profitable than investing on electric cars.

[Pants-of-dog]

The environment is irrelevant.

If there is some minor or even significant improvement to the current global warming crisis, car companies will not mind this, but this is all about the bottom line.

That is how capitalism works,

[XogGyux]

There is something called anthropogenic global warming.

To deal with this, we are slowly using less fossil fuels.

Internal combustion engine cars run on fossil fuels.

This means that we are slowly moving away from using internal combustion engine cars.

This is bad for the car industry unless we all buy electric cars from car companies.

As for the extra cost of retooling, note that the US governments have subsidized electric car manufacturers with billions of taxpayer dollars.

This is what we call a circular argument. Their sales wouldn't get affected by a decrease in demand due to electric cars if they don't create the electric cars to begin with.

[wat0n]

The environment is irrelevant.

If there is some minor or even significant improvement to the current global warming crisis, car companies will not mind this, but this is all about the bottom line.

That is how capitalism works,

They will if that costs them. Again, you said it, it's how capitalism works.

So if governments pass regulations and provide subsidies so that switch happens, it's due to the environmental concerns of voters.

[Rancid]

USA! USA! USA!

I'm all for promoting public transport and reducing reliance on personal cars.

I took the bus yesterday to a football match.

[Pants-of-dog]

This is what we call a circular argument. Their sales wouldn't get affected by a decrease in demand due to electric cars if they don't create the electric cars to begin with.

As far as I can tell, sales of ICE cars are not experiencing a decrease in demand at all.

And car companies are not losing any money because of climate change, which is an externality. So they have no problem with a “business as usual” approach to climate change, i.e. hoping nothing is done about it.

But Biden did propose to end ICE car production (not use) in 2035. So, if car companies in the USA want to make money after that, they need to make electric cars.

And now they are getting paid by Biden to make these cars that will be significantly less polluting but will still emit significant amounts of greenhouse gases.

So for the car companies, there has been a lot of money made by simultaneously ignoring climate change while getting government handouts for finding partial solutions to the climate change problem they are causing but not being held accountable for. All good for them.

But to keep making money hand over fist past 2035, they need the USA to produce 20% x 50% more electricity, and get all that extra electricity to charging stations. That requires infrastructure that car companies will not want to pay for and for which taxpayers will probably pay.

So as far as I can see, there will be no significant reduction in ICE car use for the next thirteen years, and the car companies will continue to make handsome profits while climate change may or may not be significantly mitigated by any of this.

[Robert Urbanek]

The local Nissan dealer has 24 Leaf electric vehicles in stock, with prices ranging from $34,855 to $43,410, each with a $4,995 “market adjustment” over the MSRP. That seems to be a large inventory, suggesting that potential buyers aren’t accepting the “market adjustment.” I wonder what is going on in the dealer’s mind. Something doesn’t make sense.

[Truth To Power]

There is something called anthropogenic global warming.

Yes, it's called that, but it's actually not.

To deal with this, we are slowly using less fossil fuels.

No. We are using more. And that's a good thing because CO2 is plant food, and helps plants survive drought.

Internal combustion engine cars run on fossil fuels.

This means that we are slowly moving away from using internal combustion engine cars.

If your premise was correct, which it isn't.

This is bad for the car industry unless we all buy electric cars from car companies.

The Voice of Economic Ignorance.

As for the extra cost of retooling, note that the US governments have subsidized electric car manufacturers with billions of taxpayer dollars.

Making Elon Musk briefly the richest person on earth.

[Truth To Power]

the current global warming crisis

Is a figment of the imagination of anti-fossil-fuel scaremongers, as anyone can verify for themselves by looking out their window.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Truth To Power

Please provide a clear and verifiable argument to support your claim that anthropogenic global warming is not happening.

Thank you.

[Truth To Power]

Please provide a clear and verifiable argument to support your claim that anthropogenic global warming is not happening.

Ask someone who actually remembers what the climate was like in the 1930s and 40s if it is significantly warmer now.

[XogGyux]

Ask someone who actually remembers what the climate was like in the 1930s and 40s if it is significantly warmer now.

Yes. Solid plan. Lets ignore science and data, and instead ask a 80-100 year old person if they remember a ~1C (on average) temperature increase over the last 80 years as compared to when they were children. Because we all know that personal anecdote is more reliable than data and science. That kids have excellent ability to subjectively record temperature, and elderly have excellent memory and that none of this is absolutely subjective at all.

[Pants-of-dog]

Ask someone who actually remembers what the climate was like in the 1930s and 40s if it is significantly warmer now.

Okay, I did.

They said it was definitely cooler then and it is hotter now.

Thanks!

[XogGyux]

Okay, I did.

They said it was definitely cooler then and it is hotter now.

Thanks!

nice troll, love it.

[late]

Is a figment of the imagination of anti-fossil-fuel scaremongers, as anyone can verify for themselves by looking out their window.

I have a shallow roof. I used to have to shovel it off 2 or 3 times a winter. I have on;y done that once in the last several years.

When I was a kid in the 1950s, we would get subzero temps every winter. Haven't seen those, either.

Last year the Gulf of Maine warmed by 4 degrees, which is stunning, for one year.

The New England midcoast ecology has started to move into Maine.

Years ago, the caribou left, it got too warm. We brought a herd here, but they also bugged out.

Scientists, as opposed to intellectual deficient and dishonest kooks, have been talking about warming since the 1970s...