A Profile Into The Mental Toughness of Special Forces Troops - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15159391
tomskunk wrote:@Crantag

Go ahead and get some treatment. Nobody is exempt from mental wounds and there is no shame for seeking and getting the treatment you need. Plus, work on your mind. Read some books written by Navy SEALs or other authors on mental toughness.

Therapy ain't my cup of two, hombre.

I was talking about the topics at hand.

Sure, I'm messed up, but this thread isn't about me. I was dissuading from the premise of the thread.
#15159429
You agree with Igor. You mean you think the trials and tribulations of military life, in particular in wartime, builds character? That's what he was saying. I disagree.


Well not exactly. Character is another thing altogether. I know some pretty damaged people who have served.

Think of it this way. My father's generation lived through the great depression. They suffered privation for many years. My father, as a child and young adult went from being in a well-to-do family to picking crops to make enough to eat. I think this experience gave him an appreciation for all work and especially hard work that it is hard to get for some people today. In my dad's generation you always heard the mantra, "all work is good. Do whatever you need to do as long as it is honorable". My father did not look down on any kind of work. You can see this in the minimum wage. Keeping it at a near livable wage was a no-brainer for my dad and many of his generation. And he was very happy to achieve a middle class lifestyle.

Military toughness can have the same affect on people. I know that it is very good for me to remember what it was like to be at the very bottom of the totem pole. I think it was a valuable lesson to totally commit to a great enterprise. Few people are asked to go all-in like a soldier is.

Military discipline is often misunderstood, particularly in the training a soldier receives. Think of it this way. Young people getting to basic and advanced training have had little experience with teamwork. And they are pretty cliquey. They are not used to operating in difficult situations with a very diverse group of folks. So the Army puts them under a great deal of pressure in the guise of discipline. The idea is to make it so hard that one person alone can't accomplish all that is required. So new soldiers have to work together to accomplish the mission like it or not. Even mundane tasks help with this. Back in the day I might have to polish some black and Latino guy's shoes while the black guy makes our beds and the Latino cleans the floor. Teamwork. And we are all in the pressure together so the social dynamics of race, economic class, religion, and the like just disappear in the need to cooperate and graduate. Anyway. Even in the SEAL or SF training a great deal of the toughness is aimed at subordinating the needs of the individual to the needs of the group.

In combat this comes home in spades. But make no mistake. This kind of pressure can damage people. PTSD is a real thing. Remember what Igor said:
@Igor Antunov Experiencing the worst of the worst puts the rest of your life on easy mode, if the former doesn't break you. So it can be a highly beneficial thing, to experience some severe adversity for short periods of time.


Don't miss the underlined parts.
#15159442
@Drlee @Crantag

What I love about Marcus Luttrell, Navy SEALs and special forces troops is that never quit attitude. I mean no matter what was thrown at them, some of the most craziest shit, I mean they just never quit. I love that about the special forces. Just never quit. They just never give up no matter how bad things get.

One of my favorite quotes from Marcus is "I would just draw line and crawl to that line till my feet was touching it. If I was still alive, I would draw a line again and crawl to it..." I mean that just incredible mental toughness I just admire and respect. I wish I had that kind of mental toughness. You know? But I think it's possible to develop that kind of mental toughness. So, you know, the Navy SEALs and the special forces inspire me to do better and to be a better person. They inspire me to work on my mental toughness. Here is a video where Marcus Luttrell talks about "drawing a line" and crawling to it. He just never gave up. He just never quit.

#15159457
Well said, @Drlee. You guys have a lot of wisdom, and I am not here to pretend I know everything, and I can listen to what you say and learn from it. You too, @tomskunk.

@Drlee, I can't help feeling the old timers had it better. I do farm work currently. There is nothing wrong with picking crops. It isn't that bad. I would call it fun. Yessir, I will work the land. I like to work the land. The demonization of work, and the despise of workers which is expressed by so-called 'upper middle class people', and celebrated in their propaganda is terrible.

But that's a tangent, and you make good and wise points, and I have nothing more to add than that farming bit. I will say this. We need to learn all we can from the old timers, and even document that stuff. Including farming knowledge. We don't though, because of our decadence.
#15159572
Crantag wrote:The first paragraph is complete bullshit. The second one is not related to the first one, but is an okay social critique.

The first though is wholly inaccurate. Going through fucked up shit doesn't set you up to tackle challenges going forward, it just fucks you up. Sure, we can overcome, and we all go through fucked up shit, and this isn't a contest or nothing, but it isn't the case that going through fucked up shit builds character.


Nah, nonsense. It's wholly accurate. I'm not referring to having mental problems, being a junkie or homeless as 'real' adversity. That's just being a defect, weak and sucking ass. We've all sucked ass a little, but being all three is indicative of a loser. I'm talking being normal then being hit by a train or having to dodge bullets then being normal again. That builds character, and if it doesn't you were not cut out for it to begin with or you didn't receive adequate recovery-i.e the trauma was too much or prolonged.
#15159587
@Igor Antunov

I think trials and tribulations make you mentally tougher and a better person. People have varying degrees of mental toughness. Some are more mentally tougher than others. This is why some world class athletes wash out of Navy SEAL selection because they are in outstanding physical shape, but once they put them in that cold water in the Pacific Ocean, they start getting borderline hypothermia and their teeth start chattering.

Once they go an entire week while only getting 4 hour sleep for that entire week while going 100 percent balls to the wall, you know, that REALLY REALLY starts to wear on the mind of those top notch athletes and they really get their minds severely tested. A lot of them end up ringing the bell to quit and washing out of Navy SEAL selection. It's all a mind game man. You want to understand what it is you will be required to do BEFORE you show up to Navy SEAL selection and exactly what is you need to train on before you show up to Navy SEAL selection. Then spend years training and preparing for Navy SEAL selection.

Then show up for Navy SEAL selection. You know Marcus Luttrell and his brother had been training since they were 14 years old to survive Navy SEAL selection before they showed up. They were training and preparing for Navy SEAL selection for years before attempting to make it through Navy SEAL selection. So, you know, you have to prepare extensively before you show up. Mental toughness is also something you can work yourself and make stronger through various exercises. The mind is a like a muscle. You have to exercise it to make it stronger and tougher. This is why people have varying degrees of mental toughness.

The instructors at Navy SEAL selection from what I read excel at finding everybody's weaknesses and exploiting them to the hilt in order to get them to quit and if they don't quit, to make them shore up those weaknesses. They want to see REALLY find out just how mentally tough you truly are and the only way they can truly find out is putting the candidates in the selection process through this sort of thing.

They want a deep look into your mind and heart is what those instructors want to do and only pick the best from there. There is no possible way for any candidate going through that selection process can fake their level of mental toughness and heart. They make sure of that. The Navy knows exactly what they are doing during that selection process and what to look for.

And that's just like anything else in life that is worthwhile having and doing, you have to spend years preparing and putting in the work to achieve your goals before you show up for the test.
#15159597
Igor Antunov wrote:Nah, nonsense. It's wholly accurate. I'm not referring to having mental problems, being a junkie or homeless as 'real' adversity. That's just being a defect, weak and sucking ass. We've all sucked ass a little, but being all three is indicative of a loser. I'm talking being normal then being hit by a train or having to dodge bullets then being normal again. That builds character, and if it doesn't you were not cut out for it to begin with or you didn't receive adequate recovery-i.e the trauma was too much or prolonged.

It's nice of you to show your true colors like this about what a piece of shit you are.

You do have good knowledge about China though.

I am suddenly wondering about whether there are multiple yous. I think, yes, there are.

Igor's account is utilized by multiple people. Yes, I do think so.
#15159618
Crantag wrote:It's nice of you to show your true colors like this about what a piece of shit you are.

You do have good knowledge about China though.

I am suddenly wondering about whether there are multiple yous. I think, yes, there are.

Igor's account is utilized by multiple people. Yes, I do think so.


I've been here years and nobody would make that mistake. I'm the king of consistency, I'm always me. You don't know me like you don't know adversity. This much is certain.

@tomskunk Yes, mostly agreed.
#15159751
Igor Antunov wrote:I've been here years and nobody would make that mistake. I'm the king of consistency, I'm always me. You don't know me like you don't know adversity. This much is certain.

@tomskunk Yes, mostly agreed.

I was talking bullocks, mate.

I shouldn't have come at you, but sometimes on a forum that's what you do. I believe you that you are consistent and the real you.
#15159753
My brother was in the army.

Military life can certainly build toughness and character.

It can also break people. But, nothing wrong with learning from this guy. One thing that stuck out was he was telling his story, and a lot of the audience were the hyper pro-military sorts, it seemed, so they'd cheer when he'd say something that to him was just a part of the story, if it seemed to them hyper militaristic. I don't think he liked it. I could be wrong.

I worked at a fishing camp in Alaska with a former Recon Marine. He never told me, until we got drunk together on our last day at the camp. He was a hard worker, and shit was weird up there, and he was a guy that always had my back. He had strong character.
#15159754
In Alaska, there were a lot of military guys. They were the best guys to work with, and frankly the best guys to hang out with. I noticed the army guys stuck together. The marines were more lone wolf style, but they would be on the periphery watching the scene, and ready to intervene if needed.

One time, at a camp fire, a marine who was all PTSD'd up, but was a good dude, but also drank too much, got into it with a guy that was giving him a hard time. Another marine swooped in and broke up the situation, and created peace.

My best friend at my last job was a girl, who was an airforce veteran.

Military people certainly often do have very strong character.

If I had a son though, I wouldn't want him to join the military, it is good for some I guess, but overall is not the best thing at all. Some people come out better. Some come out broken.

And I'm still thinking of enlisting. I'm 36, I have 2 years of eligibility left. I probably won't though.

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