Why did Hitler declare war on the United States? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
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#14950131
Nonsense wrote:There's always the , "What if"? scenario in terms of historical events.

My own one in respect of WW2 is this, " What if Great Britain had been the first country on Hitler's list of countries to be invaded"?

I strongly suspect that he would have won the war for Germany, no doubt at all.

A surprise invasion of Britain would have succeeded because the country was totally unprepared for a war with Germany, the 'elite' establishment was pro-Nazi in it's sympathies, all too ready to betray the country & it's people to the fascist power.
America would not have intervened to help Britain, because it was more sympathetic to the Nazis than it cares to admit & would have been happy back then, as now, to see a Europe dominated by Germany.

Germany could have used Britain as a military base from which to launch it's much vaunted attack against the Soviet Union, hitting it from the North, inside the Artic Circle, along with a southern flank attack.


In fact, had Germany only invaded Britain, America would have been ecstatically happy to see the old imperialist British Empire collapse into a heap, as it was, America was only too glad to let Britain pay for America's war against Germany, the partner of the axis of 'evil', Japan, the cause of it having to fight Germany in the first place after Pearl Harbour.

France too was militarily ignorant, with a medieval static defence mentality as displayed by the Maginot Line.

Had Hitler confined himself to defeating Britain, as well as France after the Treaty of Versaille, consolidated Germany's economic 'miracle' under Hitler, things could have been very different in a post-war Europe.
#14950132
Nonsense wrote:There's always the , "What if"? scenario in terms of historical events.

My own one in respect of WW2 is this, " What if Great Britain had been the first country on Hitler's list of countries to be invaded"?

I strongly suspect that he would have won the war for Germany, no doubt at all.

A surprise invasion of Britain would have succeeded because the country was totally unprepared for a war with Germany, the 'elite' establishment was pro-Nazi in it's sympathies, all too ready to betray the country & it's people to the fascist power.
America would not have intervened to help Britain, because it was more sympathetic to the Nazis than it cares to admit & would have been happy back then, as now, to see a Europe dominated by Germany.

In fact, had Germany only invaded Britain, America would have been ecstatically happy to see the old imperialist British Empire collapse into a heap, as it was, America was only too glad to let Britain pay for America's war against Germany, the partner of the axis of 'evil', Japan, the cause of it having to fight Germany in the first place after Pearl Harbour.

France too was militarily ignorant, with a medieval static defence mentality as displayed by the Maginot Line.

Had Hitler confined himself to defeating Britain, as well as France after the Treaty of Versaille, consolidated Germany's economic 'miracle' under Hitler, things could have been very different in a post-war Europe.


:lol:

Invaded using fucking what, wishful thinking? :lol: Their fleet only just managed to take fucking Norway with heavy casualties for a small navy like Germany's (1 heavy cruiser, 2 light cruisers, 10 destroyers, 8 submarines, 13 transports and a torpedo boat sunk, I'm not even going to go into damaged ships). What sort of Neo Nazi fantasy world are you living in where the Kreigsmarine was ever going to just waltz past the Royal Navy home fleet?
#14950323
Decky wrote::lol:

Invaded using fucking what, wishful thinking? :lol: Their fleet only just managed to take fucking Norway with heavy casualties for a small navy like Germany's (1 heavy cruiser, 2 light cruisers, 10 destroyers, 8 submarines, 13 transports and a torpedo boat sunk, I'm not even going to go into damaged ships). What sort of Neo Nazi fantasy world are you living in where the Kreigsmarine was ever going to just waltz past the Royal Navy home fleet?


A lot of these ''alternative scenarios'' and ''what if's?'' are exactly that, ''Neo-Nazi'', because they lost and the only thing more pleasing to the Fascist losing than imaging a world where their arms are victorious at long last, is imaging a world where they were not beaten in the first place.

Second runner up to this kind of political onanism these days is denigrating the role of the Soviet Union and the Red Army in winning the Great Patriotic War, with so little help (especially early on) from the Anglo-American Allies.

Hitler wasn't going to invade Great Britain, he wanted to be allied to the British Empire in future conflicts for hegemony of the world, and it wouldn't do to invade fair Albion with that consideration in mind.
#14950511
Decky wrote::lol:

Invaded using fucking what, wishful thinking? :lol: Their fleet only just managed to take fucking Norway with heavy casualties for a small navy like Germany's (1 heavy cruiser, 2 light cruisers, 10 destroyers, 8 submarines, 13 transports and a torpedo boat sunk, I'm not even going to go into damaged ships). What sort of Neo Nazi fantasy world are you living in where the Kreigsmarine was ever going to just waltz past the Royal Navy home fleet?


You are talking tosh.

Had Hitler decided to attack Britain, it would have had pre-planning, considering other German operations early in the war, when Britain was unprepared for war anyway, the element of surprise, coupled with the planning, execution of those plans & Britain would have gone down.

German efficiency vs British unpreparedness, it's an odds on certainty that Britain would have lost, including, taking into account our naval 'superiority', by way of numbers, as you imply, because like Pearl Harbour, the RN would have been asleep on the watch & once the Germans had landed with huge amounts of military equipment, pre-attack sabotage, the RN could not have been used.
In any case, Germany had superior numbers & quality of submarines that would have made short work of our naval ships at that time(19390.
Once the enemy is inside the gate, it is too late, simply encircling Westminster & taking control would have been enough.

It's the difference between how an inefficient 'democracy' works(or doesn't) & a dictatorship.

Now just get off your 'high horse' Decky, because operation after operation by the British, was a cock-up after cock-up & those in power were more than ready to capitulate by betraying the country for their own interest.
Dunkirk, Egypt ,Singapore, Greece, even the Falklands under Thatcher was a disaster dressed up as a 'victory', where your favourite navy couldn't even defend itself.
You need to know your history before making rash judgements or conclusions, even on 'hypothetical' or, 'what if' situations.

In spite of your opinion, I think that Germany would have won the war had they first attacked Britain & you have said nothing to make me change my opinion on that. :knife: :knife: :evil: :evil:
#14950525
annatar1914 wrote:A lot of these ''alternative scenarios'' and ''what if's?'' are exactly that, ''Neo-Nazi'', because they lost and the only thing more pleasing to the Fascist losing than imaging a world where their arms are victorious at long last, is imaging a world where they were not beaten in the first place.

Second runner up to this kind of political onanism these days is denigrating the role of the Soviet Union and the Red Army in winning the Great Patriotic War, with so little help (especially early on) from the Anglo-American Allies.

Hitler wasn't going to invade Great Britain, he wanted to be allied to the British Empire in future conflicts for hegemony of the world, and it wouldn't do to invade fair Albion with that consideration in mind.



NONSENSE - Hitler didn't want to invade Britain, but Britain declared war on Germany because of our position on Poland, that, like so many realities, ran counter to Hitler's thoughts.

Yes, you are absolutely right on the Soviet Union, which Britain never acknowledges, given that between 20-30 Million Soviet citizens died fighting for their motherland, but also for the lives of everyone in the Soviet Union, due to Hitler's war of annihilation(extermination) against the Soviet people's.
#14950546
Nonsense wrote:You are talking tosh.

Had Hitler decided to attack Britain, it would have had pre-planning, considering other German operations early in the war, when Britain was unprepared for war anyway, the element of surprise, coupled with the planning, execution of those plans & Britain would have gone down.

German efficiency vs British unpreparedness, it's an odds on certainty that Britain would have lost, including, taking into account our naval 'superiority', by way of numbers, as you imply, because like Pearl Harbour, the RN would have been asleep on the watch & once the Germans had landed with huge amounts of military equipment, pre-attack sabotage, the RN could not have been used.
In any case, Germany had superior numbers & quality of submarines that would have made short work of our naval ships at that time(19390.
Once the enemy is inside the gate, it is too late, simply encircling Westminster & taking control would have been enough.

It's the difference between how an inefficient 'democracy' works(or doesn't) & a dictatorship.

Now just get off your 'high horse' Decky, because operation after operation by the British, was a cock-up after cock-up & those in power were more than ready to capitulate by betraying the country for their own interest.
Dunkirk, Egypt ,Singapore, Greece, even the Falklands under Thatcher was a disaster dressed up as a 'victory', where your favourite navy couldn't even defend itself.
You need to know your history before making rash judgements or conclusions, even on 'hypothetical' or, 'what if' situations.

In spite of your opinion, I think that Germany would have won the war had they first attacked Britain & you have said nothing to make me change my opinion on that. :knife: :knife: :evil: :evil:


I always find it hilarious when you EU loving fascists try to claim the Germans were the perfect undefeatable aryan supermen that they claimed to be. :lol: If you ignore the fact they haven't won a war against another European power since the Franco-Prussian war then sure they are amazing fighters.

Your Reich lost due to its famous military incompetence, maybe it is time that you blackshirts got over it?
#14950588
First of all holy shit Necro batman, then I miss smilin dave.

And now, of course, Decky is correct, Kreigmarine lost 40% of its surface fleet in the invasion of Norway with air superiority and still, people claim they could somehow magically cross the English Channel and then be able to supply hundreds of thousands of men and equipment when they couldn't even properly supply their tiny army in Africa and they had Italian navy there to support them. :lol:

Also, Norway was about to be a British victory as they could transport and supply their troops better than Germans but after French invasion, British pulled out their troops from Norway giving Germany the free hand there or else not even Norway was within German reach.

Wehrmacht fanboys or Elon Musk fanboys on the Internet, I don't know who is worse.
#14951284
Decky wrote:I always find it hilarious when you EU loving fascists try to claim the Germans were the perfect undefeatable aryan supermen that they claimed to be. :lol:
Your Reich lost due to its famous military incompetence, maybe it is time that you blackshirts got over it?


If you ignore the fact they haven't won a war against another European power since the Franco-Prussian war then sure they are amazing fighters.

Decky - "I always find it hilarious when you EU loving fascists try to claim the Germans were the perfect undefeatable aryan supermen that they claimed to be".


NONSENSE:

So, you create, then respond to your own narrative ,little englander :lol: :lol: .

Monologue's are right up your street then. :Hmm!: talking to oneself is an indication that a visit to your GP is in order. :moron: :roll:


NONSENSE:

"If you ignore the fact they haven't won a war against another European power since the Franco-Prussian war then sure they are amazing fighters".

I think that either your memory or education is to be found wanting.
If you take the Blitzkrieg 'victories' of WW2,against, (Denmark, Norway, Belgium, The Netherlands, France, Yugoslavia and Greece), as individual 'wars' against each of the above countries,then Germany under Hitler did 'win' wars against European powers.

Holding onto them was another matter.

The Germans were well disciplined, prepared for the task they were trained for, as were the Japanese, the British by contrast, were soft as cow-pats, whose learning curve was costly.
#14951288
fuser wrote:First of all holy shit Necro batman, then I miss smilin dave.

And now, of course, Decky is correct, Kreigmarine lost 40% of its surface fleet in the invasion of Norway with air superiority and still, people claim they could somehow magically cross the English Channel and then be able to supply hundreds of thousands of men and equipment when they couldn't even properly supply their tiny army in Africa and they had Italian navy there to support them. :lol:

Also, Norway was about to be a British victory as they could transport and supply their troops better than Germans but after French invasion, British pulled out their troops from Norway giving Germany the free hand there or else not even Norway was within German reach.

Wehrmacht fanboys or Elon Musk fanboys on the Internet, I don't know who is worse.


Don't know what your on, but keep taking the pills. :lol: :lol:

Norway was just another example of the British weakness due to it's inability to prepare for war with Germany when it must have been obvious from 1933 that we were going to have one with them.

The British couldn't control the air in Norway, it was costly, as it was for Germany, but it was a disaster for Britain, which is why Chamberlain resigned after a vote of no confidence on his government.
#14951337
Sure there are lot of juvenile German fanoi boys out there, but overall looking at 1866, 1871, WWI and WWII, the Germans were pretty militarily impressive. It was post 1871 grand strategy that they failed at. Germany was far too unaggressive between 1871 and 1914. Not forcing through Polish independence in 1905 /6 was insanely passive. The Reformation out come was a catastrophe for German nationalism and in 1871 they had a lot of catching up to do. Not taking Algeria in 1871 was also a big mistake.
#14951400
Nonsense wrote:If you take the Blitzkrieg 'victories' of WW2,against, (Denmark, Norway, Belgium, The Netherlands, France, Yugoslavia and Greece), as individual 'wars' against each of the above countries,then Germany under Hitler did 'win' wars against European powers.


If your father was a woman he would be your mother, what is your point?

They weren't individual wars. Also you might not be aware of this but there were other nations in the axis. The idea that Germany invaded Greece alone is... odd.
#14951403
Decky wrote:If your father was a woman he would be your mother, what is your point?

They weren't individual wars. Also you might not be aware of this but there were other nations in the axis. The idea that Germany invaded Greece alone is... odd.


And dare I say, Nonsense?

If I recall correctly, Mussolini attacked Greece and was getting beat, with Greek forces actually beginning to push the Italians back into Albania, when Hitler decided to divert German forces and help the Italian military out. Of course, Hitler rationalized it like everything else he did, but it was one more stupid idea of many from him.
#14951404
annatar1914 wrote:And dare I say, Nonsense?

If I recall correctly, Mussolini attacked Greece and was getting beat, with Greek forces actually beginning to push the Italians back into Albania, when Hitler decided to divert German forces and help the Italian military out. Of course, Hitler rationalized it like everything else he did, but it was one more stupid idea of many from him.


There is actually an argument (not a great one but still...) for the Greeks being the reason the Germans didn't take Moscow in 1941. Hitler had to postpone Barbarossa so he could help the Italians take Greece. The postponement meant he has less time before the autumn and the rasputitsa came.

I can't imagine it would be too popular and idea in Russia of course. :lol:
#14951409
Decky wrote:There is actually an argument (not a great one but still...) for the Greeks being the reason the Germans didn't take Moscow in 1941. Hitler had to postpone Barbarossa so he could help the Italians take Greece. The postponement meant he has less time before the autumn and the rasputitsa came.

I can't imagine it would be too popular and idea in Russia of course. :lol:


Most Russians I figure know that Germany's mission was doomed no matter what, the drive to break and devour Russia. And I have no problem with Orthodox Greeks and Orthodox Serbs in Yugoslavia helping beat the Germans at all. :)
#14951490
Nonsense wrote:Don't know what your on, but keep taking the pills. :lol: :lol:

Norway was just another example of the British weakness due to it's inability to prepare for war with Germany when it must have been obvious from 1933 that we were going to have one with them.

The British couldn't control the air in Norway, it was costly, as it was for Germany, but it was a disaster for Britain, which is why Chamberlain resigned after a vote of no confidence on his government.


So you literally can't back up your ridiculous claim or counter my points supported by actual facts rather than some counterfactual fantasies, good to know. What does British success mean to you anyway? Driving Matilda in Berlin in 1939? :lol:
#14951586
Decky wrote:If your father was a woman he would be your mother, what is your point?

They weren't individual wars. Also you might not be aware of this but there were other nations in the axis. The idea that Germany invaded Greece alone is... odd.



I am fully aware of which countries were allies of other countries thank you.

Taking account that below, it was a succession of individual wars culminating in victory, not for any individual country over another, but victory over Fascism in all of it's manifestations, none of which were democratic or with true separation of law & power.


WW2 was a 'global' war, but as far as individual countries were concerned, for the most part they did not actually defend themselves, so for them, they were not really engaged in a war to which they had lost.

In respect of France, it was defending itself in an exercise of hope over reality, it was clearly a 'victory' for Germany(Hitler) ,France lost what can be deemed a war in it's own right, in terms of it being an act of war by one nation against another, in which both attacker & defender were both actively engaged.

It 'capitulated' to Germany as an individual country & as an ally of Britain.

France was actually split between those willing to work with Germany(Vichy) & the resistance as loosely represented by De Gaulle in exile in Britain.
It's main ally Britain 'lost' too, but 'ran away, to fight another day', successfully, thanks to Herr Hitler's interference in matters which were out of his depth.

What mattered was the whole picture, that of defeating the axis of evil that dictatorial regimes were engaged in to defeat normal, peaceful countries in order to gain control & power for the corrupted of this world.
#14951589
Decky wrote:There is actually an argument (not a great one but still...) for the Greeks being the reason the Germans didn't take Moscow in 1941. Hitler had to postpone Barbarossa so he could help the Italians take Greece. The postponement meant he has less time before the autumn and the rasputitsa came.

I can't imagine it would be too popular and idea in Russia of course. :lol:


Hitler invaded Greece in 1942 because of Malta, which was a threat to his Designs in the Med & Africa.
The British were already in Greece when Hitler sent his Para troopers to the country & defeated the British in rapid order.

I know this because a family member was captured at the Corinthian Canal, Kalamata , from where he was sent to Wolfsburg, Austria, where he escaped once, but was recaptured, you never escaped twice, because once caught you were automatically shot.

En- route by land to Austria, any locals that dared to give any water or food to the travelling prisoners of war in the back of German lorries were shot by the German troops.
At the end of the war that family member began the 'Long March' back to Britain, with thousands dying along the way.

He was Mentioned in Dispatches for his escape attempt from STALAG 18A.

My grandfather was awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal during WW1 during the Gallipoli fiasco against the Turks.

He stayed in the enemy trenches whilst under heavy machine gun fire by the Turks, in order that his comrades, many of whom were injured could get back to their own trenches, he held the Turks off on his own & carried a wounded comrade back to his own side's trenches under heavy machine gun fire which wounded him with shrapnel to his stomach.

Ironically, 28 years to the day later, he died on an N.H.S operating table, from a blood infection caught during the operation for surgery to treat a burst appendix & I grieved a long time when he died in May 1953.

He, like myself, was a man of the sea, he was an RNVR volunteer, I was a professional seaman during the whole of the 1960's.
#14951768
So your family members served in this theater and you still know jackshit about this theater in particular while having fantastical ideas about the war. :lol:

Germany invaded Greece in Aprill in 1941 not 1942 and not because of malta, that's just stupid and first time I have heard this nonsense. Have you ever looked at the map of Meditterarian? Tell me Malta is closer to Italy or Greece? And you know something, Italy was already in Axis.

And now as per Battle of Greece, total number of German troops that took part in the offensive were over 600,000 while total number of Commonwealth soilders were 60,000, it was not just German paratroopers ffs. The only operational lever airborne operation done by Germany was at Crete where they lost so many Transports that they banned large scale airborne operations for good, of course small scale tactical operations still happened like at corinthian canal but to pretend that just bunch of German paratroopers defeated everyone in Greece in 1942 is just so ridiculous that its not even discussion worthy just worthy of a laughter.
#14951771
Nonsense wrote:Hitler invaded Greece in 1942


:lol:

Jesus Christ is there some American in you somewhere? Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself? Just give up, this is a subject you clearly know very little about.
#14951868
Decky wrote::lol:

Jesus Christ is there some American in you somewhere? Do you never tire of embarrassing yourself? Just give up, this is a subject you clearly know very little about.



You can't wind me up Decky , revel in displaying your ignorance to all & sundry.

Facts are facts, they cannot be changed, they are real, like them or not, that's the reality of FACTS. :knife: :knife: :moron: :moron:

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