Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
R Leonard wrote:Agreed . . . this is all spooky conspiracy nonsense stuff. a US general, and it matters not a whit who he is/was or how many stars he has or had, has not not the authority to take such actions regardless of how much he may have wanted to do so. He would be sacked immediately for even attempting to put such a plan in motion and probably arrested. Not to mention that those under his command, even his own staff, would probably outright refuse participation, being painfully aware of the illegality of any orders to even start movement. It is apparent that those pushing this stuff have not a clue as to how complicated such a scheme would be . . . the ever so casual kiss your hand and snap your fingers to make it so ignores stark realities of military operations. You cannot just order everyone up to the line, head east, and kill anyone not dressed like us . . . .
So you are reduced to, "fuck off", "nuh-uh I am right", great to hear that.
And yes you do need to at least try to read carefully, where did I said LL trucks were not numbered over 400,000? Nowhere but you in all these posts have been a complete failure in understanding the concepts of pre war stocks, the 400,000 numbers is right so is the 30% numbers, deal with it and stop repeating yourself. And no all these pre-war stocks were not destroyed during Barbarossa. Railcars, Locomotives, Trucks etc from pre-war were being used after the war too.
Also stop lying, who said Mikoyan was an allied spy? No one but the another point that you are completely unable to understand that such quotes from famous personality exists for all sides, see my example of British General staff that you ignored and come back and this time try not to put something in my mouth that I didn't said.
And to take words from your dictionary, literally every anti-soviet hack has tried to overestimate and exaggerate LL contribution, I didn't said that it was not important but your exaggeration is indeed ludicrous, as I said overall LL formed a meager 7% of Soviet GNP, deal with this fact too.
Oh and stop pretending that 44-45 Germany and Japan are anywhere close to 45 USSR, this has already been proven not to be the case, no amount of repetition will magically make it so.
And when you brought up Sturmoviks you were literally talking about air superiority and not CAS, its not my fault that you post stupid shit and now have to deal with it. Plus yup, you may not be aware but VVS did had fighters and not only CAS.
As per allies not playing fair, who said anything about being fair, is this post a strawman post to compensate for your utter lack of any new arguments. As per offense and defense, literally the op, Patton and Unthinkable are asking them to go on offensive, its not my fault that even a fanboy like you can't think of a favorable scenario in this case.
This clearly demonstrate how you are utterly incapable of reading and understanding simple posts. Did I said ww2 played no part? No, I didn't, now tell me were you aiming for a strawman or you really can't read simple posts?
This is a brilliant thread. Invading Russia = piece of cake. After all, the Red Army and Resistance fighters and partisans were pushovers. The Soviets had no conventional strength on ground or air at all, as we all know. Furthermore, invading our ally who bore the brunt of Nazi aggression for years would have gone over smoothly with everyone. The sheer level of strategic genius in this thread is truly phenomenal.
Bridgeburner wrote:I'll never contest the fact that the Red Army destroyed the Wermacht almost single-handedly, but I will also never agree that the VVS was anything approaching successful in its attempts against the Luftwaffe. It's antiquated training, doctrine, attitude towards fighter pilots, focus on the mission and not downing aircraft were all symptomatic of a thoroughly backward organization.
Lexington wrote:One thing I'm wondering, though: So the British had investigated invading the Soviets with Operation Unthinkable...
Lexington wrote:Did the Soviets have any comparable thing at the time? They really must have, just as a contingency even, I would think?
Bridgeburner wrote:Please, continue to highlight how the VVS was anything but a comparative pile of shit that sent its own pilots to death with antiquated training, antiquated planes, antiquated tactics and a record so abysmal that it speaks for itself.
If you paid any degree of attention to this debate you'd realize not once has anyone questioned the Red Army but that the discussion has been over the VVS. Unfortunately, your snarky little comment has about all the historical content of a popular history youtube video.
But you didn't actually read anything did you, just popped in with a shitty one liner?
That "ally" of yours brutally repressed Eastern Europeans, Ukrainians, Finns and Baltic peoples for decades, and continues and continued to wreck havoc amongst Asian peoples in Central Asia and the far East. Good to know that liberals still persist with a completely racist agenda, the only crime of course of WW2 was that the Germans had the audacity to do it to fellow Europeans, if it's Asians that bear the force of repression why, then that's something to be cheered on.
fuser wrote:@ Brigeburner
I stopped reading your post when you once again claimed that I said Soviet Production of Trucks was higher than LL trucks, I have explicitly said otherwise. My point was now for nth time that Soviets had pre war stocks too and thus share of Soviet truck in R Army was much higher than western Trucks.
Now, its quite clear that you are utterly incapable of reading simple posts and all you have is stupid repetitions and strawmans. Come back when you have developed the capability to read and understand counter arguments and when you have anything at all new to say that hasn't been addressed before.
Till then keep crying about me being russophile, anti-asian or whatever shit that will make you feel better about yourself.
Bulaba Jones wrote:I do not care what facet of WWII in particular (the VVS) you have been focusing on. My post was pretty clearly in response to the ideas in this thread by people who think it was even feasible for the Western Allies to attack the Soviets, and was not in response to you in any manner.
Typically I scroll past your posts without reading them at all but in this case I saw you quote me. It's too bad that you're upset that I mocked the idea of invading Russia being a piece of cake, but it is a really laughable idea and hard not to laugh at. However yes, I haven't read any of your posts and don't plan to.
And lol @ "one liner"
Pretty much every Western Ally or major/colonial power at that time had been or was engaging in the oppression of multiple ethnic groups in different regions of the world,
so I fail to see how the Soviets were unique in this regard, as although they didn't balk at liquidating bourgeois elements, they never tried to exterminate whole ethnic groups, reduce ethnic populations to second-class citizenship like occurred throughout the colonial world,
I would like to raise a toast to the health of our Soviet people and, before all, the Russian people.
I drink, before all, to the health of the Russian people, because in this war they earned general recognition as the leading force of the Soviet Union among all the nationalities of our country.
and so on. Since you acknowledge that the major European powers were already engaged in ethnic oppression and ethnic superiority (implied in their colonies at the very least), I don't know why you're giving me this pity party about the Soviets, considering everything they possibly did had already been done before or was institutionalized by some European power before or during the war.
If you think communists are liberals then it sheds a lot of light on why you're taking the notion of attacking the Soviets so seriously, because both are pretty dumb.
fuser wrote:I am also laughing hard that somehow me supporting US and British Empire (of all places) in a hypothetical scenario will make me a "good" Asian.
But then it could had been worse, I was also accused of being a Britshophile for opposing the idea that Britain would had fallen if she stood alone against Nazi Germany.
fuser wrote:Of course, I am full of, a typical sixth grader response (not that better is expected from you). And no not everything was destroyed during Barbarossa, Glantz or anyone nowhere mentions that all trucks, railcars, locomotives were destroyed during Barnarossa. Or it would had been impossible for red army to field 680,000 Trucks in may 45 given that its almost equal to war time production + LL unless idiotically we are to believe that no trucks were destroyed/lost after Barbarossa which is of course nonsense. You once again made a stupid mistake and has to deal with it now, its totally your problem that you keep making stupid mistakes.
Now obviously I am not going to bother with rest of your shit wall of text post, everything that has to be said has been said by me ("And no you didn't", is seriously not going to prove otherwise), no amount of strawmanning and repetition on your part is going to change that, keep pretending that you still have any counter argument left as you seem to be good at fantasy building.
fuser wrote:You literally said that everything had to be build from ground up after Barbarossa, start taking responsibility for your own shit.
So now what are you claiming that all 400,000 US Trucks were present in may 45 and none were destroyed in preceding years?
If you really can't see the utter bankruptcy of your argument then you are beyond hopeless. In may 45 as I already posted LL trucks formed 32% of total red army trucks because you know outside of your fantasy, US trucks are not invincible.
If we are to believe your nonsense then as I already said we will have to assume that no Soviet trucks were destroyed after Barbarossa for Red Army to be able to field that many trucks in may 45.
So yup you are talking nonsense as usual and just mentioning Glantz here and there in your post is not helping you at all but keep trying, I think you still have some ludicrously funny things to post.
In may 45 as I already posted LL trucks formed 32% of total red army trucks
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