Was it wrong to drop the bomb on Japan? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The Second World War (1939-1945).
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15154790
America had to get even with Japan which attacked Pearl Harbor first. Yamamoto guessed that Japan would never win a protracted conflict with America and the war should end in a year or two. A negotiated settlement was the only viable option for Yamamoto and his country, which was why he gambled on attacking the Pacific Fleet at anchor in Pearl Harbor to deal a big blow to a superior enemy, hoping that America would offer a peace deal. Another big blow against Hiroshima was necessary to reach a negotiated settlement with Japan. FDR's focus was always Pearl Harbor, thus pitting the entire nation against Imperial Japan. President Clinton further designated December 7 as National Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. I guess most Japanese people today do not complain about getting nuked to end the war, given how atrocious the Army was, except for some peace activists in Hiroshima.
#15154806
Pants-of-dog wrote:The US needed to know what atomic bombs would do to human flesh, and bombing white people was out of the question.


Is there any source for this? Not the "White people" nonsense but the "human flesh part".

I think they could have first dropped them in a depopulated area. That would have sent the message, I think.
#15154810
@ThirdTerm

You know, from the massive casualties the Soviets suffered to the atomic bombings, you would think mankind would learn to prevent the scourge of war. War is really shitty and nobody really wins in the end. I noticed you use the Cyrillic alphabet in your signature board. Are you from a slavic country? Russia? Serbia? I was just curious. I see you post but you don't seem to say much to anybody.
#15154913
Igor Antunov wrote:Famous last words. After 2020, you really like tempting 2021 don't you?

Rest assured the bomb will be used again. When and where...that is the question.


I'm with the UN.....

No Jews allowed to do Religious shit on the Temple Mount. Muslims worldwide will not be happy, and Christian Apocalypse nutcases will go crazy. Will result in an "International Incident". World Wars tend to come from initially small disputes.

Hopefully the UN continues to HOLD THE LINE!
#15154915
It was done to stop the Russians. Tacticly it wasn't wrong. I have attended the Peace Park Memorial on the date, and visited the museum. It tacticly wasn't wrong. It was done to stop the Russians. But it was terrible.
Last edited by Crantag on 04 Feb 2021 23:28, edited 3 times in total.
#15154919
Agent Steel wrote:
I think that the USA had to drop nukes onto Japan to stop Japan from terrorizing their neighbors. Some of the most notorious war crimes in my opinion were committed by the Japanese army. I just think they deserved to get nuked.

Am I wrong for thinking this? Should the USA have done things differently?



Historians call this sort of discussion science fiction.

However, it would have been smarter not to use them. Stalin would not have spent money badly needed elsewhere on a maybe.

Mass murdering civilians is simply wrong, no matter how you do it. But one can understand the desire of the military to end the war. Less understandable is the way they insulated the president from voices that would have argued against the use of nuclear weapons.
#15155044
It has been discussed numerous times on this subforum before, and no it was not necessary. US's own armed forces believed that Japan was ready to surrender, there was no need for operation Downfall.

Basically allies wanted Japan to surrender unconditionally, Japan still hoped and had feelers in USSR to negotiate a brokered peace(In their mind they remained neutral during the whole Great Patriotic War, not even attacking any allied shipping headed for USSR pacific ports) but after USSR invaded Manchuria, that hope was dashed but they still were not ready for unconditional surrender and their only demand at this point was to keep their Emperor.

Now its kinda confusing here as why the bombs were dropped then, I don't like the unconditional surrender part as the allies allowed the Japanese to keep their Emperor anyway but may be they realized it later that they can't start a trial of The Emperor as it will create problems of its own or may it was simply a way of showing the world and specially USSR, The Bomb.

Either way the Atomic bombs were absolutely not necessary.
#15155103
fuser wrote:It has been discussed numerous times on this subforum before, and no it was not necessary. US's own armed forces believed that Japan was ready to surrender, there was no need for operation Downfall.

Basically allies wanted Japan to surrender unconditionally, Japan still hoped and had feelers in USSR to negotiate a brokered peace(In their mind they remained neutral during the whole Great Patriotic War, not even attacking any allied shipping headed for USSR pacific ports) but after USSR invaded Manchuria, that hope was dashed but they still were not ready for unconditional surrender and their only demand at this point was to keep their Emperor.

Now its kinda confusing here as why the bombs were dropped then, I don't like the unconditional surrender part as the allies allowed the Japanese to keep their Emperor anyway but may be they realized it later that they can't start a trial of The Emperor as it will create problems of its own or may it was simply a way of showing the world and specially USSR, The Bomb.

Either way the Atomic bombs were absolutely not necessary.


With this response, I wish to step back from the nuclear weapons business, Japan is so paradoxical, the country embraced the technology of nuclear energy, despite having been bombed, and then that Fukushima shit popped off (and yeah I was right there for that shit. I mean, I was in Tokyo. Probably I shouldn't fib. But I did have a whale of an experience over the whole thing.)

It is a funny thing that when you are in Japan they make you use their dating system. I was born in Showa 59, 1984. It was kinda shocking when I realized that I lived under the WW2 emporer, showa, hah. Do the math, 59 was his 59th year, I was born in 84, so he took power in 1925, and reigned all those years.

I'm sorry to say. I sorta think they should have strung him up in Tokyo, at the war tribunals at which my Grandfather served.
#15155156
Japan is a meme country. It doesn't really exist, it's an industrialization experiment turned puppet that was never let go. It will become Japan again when the US bites the dust, hopefully without the shinto militarism given the reality of its place in the world (no resources, heavily dependent on mainland asia for economy to function.). Just as it has been for millenia. The 1800's where an aberration, brought about due to a power vaccum in east asia after the qing tribalists stagnated the middle kingdom with their primitivism, and by extension the sinosphere. Well China is back, and so is the sinosphere. Japan is a natural component of that. It ain't no western country and it has no long term future outside of The Chinese world.
#15155358
Igor Antunov wrote:Japan is a meme country. It doesn't really exist, it's an industrialization experiment turned puppet that was never let go. It will become Japan again when the US bites the dust, hopefully without the shinto militarism given the reality of its place in the world (no resources, heavily dependent on mainland asia for economy to function.). Just as it has been for millenia. The 1800's where an aberration, brought about due to a power vaccum in east asia after the qing tribalists stagnated the middle kingdom with their primitivism, and by extension the sinosphere. Well China is back, and so is the sinosphere. Japan is a natural component of that. It ain't no western country and it has no long term future outside of The Chinese world.

This is an interesting post, with a healthy dose of cynicism. You are intelligent and informed.

I think calling Japan a meme country that doesn't really exist, is kinda bullshit though. Japan is culturally rather unique, their pension for innovating and perfecting stuff, is sorta top notch, and there are a lot of things that only really exist in Japan. Bonzai trees and sumo wrestling, for example, and sushi, for examples. These are things which are heavily refined artifacts of genius simplicity, which only the Japanese really have. The Japanese have sort of maintained the old style of East Asian innovative culture. But, this isn't intended as a disagreement as much as a more optimistic take.
#15155379
By the way, the US firebombed Osaka after the surrender , though before the Japanese surrender had been officially recognized by the American political establishment. The commanding officer in the airforce tried to recruit 1,000 planes, to fire bomb the fuck out of the Japanese, on their firebombing last hurrah. He didn't get the 1,000 planes, but did get a good number of planes and they did bomb the shit out of them, for no real reason at all.

So it goes.
Last edited by Crantag on 07 Feb 2021 14:10, edited 1 time in total.
#15155383
Yes, using weapons that kill hundreds of thousands in seconds is immoral and wrong. Everything else is just rationalization by Americans who are incapable of admitting to themselves they're the authors of one of the worst genocides in history. With some time anyone can explain to themselves why the things they did is the best thing they could do ever.
#15155384
Ganeshas Rat wrote:Yes, using weapons that kill hundreds of thousands in seconds is immoral and wrong. Everything else is just rationalization by Americans who are incapable of admitting to themselves they're the authors of one of the worst genocides in history. With some time anyone can explain to themselves why the things they did is the best thing they could do ever.

I'm American and I have no problem with you.

Regarding my commentary in this thread, I think the bombing was done from a tactical standpoint to prevent the dividing of Japan between American and Soviet spheres of influence, and that it was successful, in achieving that aim.
#15155385
Ah, and yeah, that wasn't a moral goal, my comment, by the way. And Korea needn't be still divided, if Americans weren't such fucking dicks. So, I guess I am counter arguing myself, but it wasn't necessary to stop the Russsians, it was more necessary to not be assholes to the Russians (and by the way, some of my good friends are Russians, and I say, don't be assholes to Russsians, be friends.)
#15155386
If the bombs were dropped to "stop the Russians" as I claimed, it presupposes that the Russians were some great threat. It is clouding the incident in the context of the events which occurred after. American-Soviet relations didn't have to be as they were, and I'm not a proud American patriot, despite a number of my family members and close friends having served in the American military. I am Cascadian.

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